"Old Knives"

[rockman0]

I love the jumbo jacks being posted I'll have an eye out for one to add here's my most recent addition, I'm fond of the old defunct hardware chain knives, this is my 2nd from TX. A gentlemanly little knife that would have carried well in a suit back in it's day, main blade has a sunk joint. 3 1/8" Interesting history of the beginnings of the company.
https://hometownbyhandlebar.com/?p=4129

 

[Campbellclanman]

Charlie, Nice Schrades with the Empire Bar Shield - man that Top one!!!! I was having dizzy spells after my surgery- and they just haven't stopped reading this Thread!!!!!

Nice digging Herder Sir- I can imagine all the pages flying up in the air when reading this Thread and then onto a mission!!!

North Shore- Nice Case- that's a real nice looking Case Jack that one- love the Mellow Bone!

Rob - Wow! Those two Case Hunters are gorgeous, I sideline an are for big Hunters in my Collection and there's a couple of great Cases in There- yours a simply awesome!
The you follow up with that very very nice Nash - again a stellar example of just how Jigg work can be like! And the Swage work on that Pen is mental! Love it! That's a very cool old Knife there my friend.

 

[herder]

Thanks guys for your nice comments on the two jumbo jacks I posted!

Charlie, those are some outstanding heavy jacks same goes for your a jumbo and Electric Cutlery Co. jacks Lambertiana!

Augie, just a beautiful CCC jumbo jack I have a couple of CCC marked folders. FWIW, when I was doing some research a few years back on Curtin & Clark I came across an article or reference to an article (may have been in Knife Magazine can’t remember) that claimed that many stamps were found at Queen Cutlery for Curtin & Clark, Marshall Wells, Crown Cutlery, Griffon, Bridge and others. I just jotted the companies down and found at Queen without noting the source or where I stumbled on it

Lee (LongBlade) those are some outstanding Empires! Got to love those Empire shields.

Herder that 1906 Empire catalog Regulator shield is interesting. Looks very similar to the one NYKC used on their big lock back folding hunters and some others. In fact NYKC made a big jack blade etched REGULATOR with a very similar shield. Which company (and I think there were some others) first used it?

Nice one North Shore I always liked that shield!

Luger, yes, good catch on that shield being used on the NYK folding hunter, I forgot about that one. A few years ago I sat down and listed many of the etches that old cutlery companies used to see which were most common. Names like "Regulator", "Forest King", "Our Best", "Hunter's Pride", and of course, "Cattle Knife" were among those most often used. It would be neat to see a list of all the etches ever applied to a blade. A pretty long list I suspect.

 

[Campbellclanman]

I am so sorry to follow up with these knives - as they do not compare in eye catching beautiful Bone or have the things that catch the eye such as fantastic Swage work etc, but they are Knives of old and before they disappear into a drawer somewhere, I thought I would show them- and then bring one up for a discussion point.
I bought this Old Pruner a while back, I still pick them up if they are anywhere sort of decent, I slid a few nice ones to Mr. Hilborn a while ago, and think I wont be able to pick up ones like some of them again- but I still cant help but stop when seeing one.
This one here - as I say isnt anything too special, and to be honest in a big Knife show a lot would be on the look out for something a lot nicer no doubt- I get that, but when you look at this knife on it's own merit- I kinda still like it, the problem is I dont know who made it- or even where it was made.
The thing about this Knife when you get Sunshine on that Handle - it explodes like adark Red Fired just under the first thin layer of Transparent Wood - its quite Beautiful, I wonder if this is Cocobolo, the Pile Side is Darker - but Under strong Sunlight you can see the deep Red Fire burning deep within! Its quite beautiful to Gaze at!
I'm thinking the origins are probably German as the Bolsters are Nickel Silver - as are the Pins, and although like a lot of the German made Knives, look carefully and you do see a different Pin Colour in the Bolster.
No Half Stops, really nice Walk and Talk, lovely snap, at 4&1/4 inches long its a in the bracket of the larger Pruners.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Here is a Herder that I wish I got hold of before it had some Blade loss, Herder ( our friend here ) I am sure of - may have a catalog picture of what this knife did appear to be more like when unused- as I am sure with the Curvature of the Handle this Blade had more of a Peach Pruner or Hawk-bill type of Blade?
All Steel Liners, Pins and wee fancey fine threaded Bolsters and Butt Plate- a pretty cool Knife! I bet it was in it's day a darned looker!
The wood on this one is very deep like a Deep Dark Ebony- but.. right by the top Liners there Bright Fire red flickering on the very edges- real nice in the Sun! if you look carefully you will see this in the first photo.
Some styles of Knife like this can be quite large- this one is 4 inches closed, still to this day smooth and even pull with no Half Stop.

 

[herder]

Darn you, Campbellclanman, you are keeping me up well past my bedtime with these fascinating knives!!!
Both wonderful examples, and I don't believe there is much blade loss on the Herder model. I will dig through some Herder catalogs tomorrow.

 

[Old Engineer]

Here is a Herder that I wish I got hold of before it had some Blade loss, Herder ( our friend here ) I am sure of - may have a catalog picture of what this knife did appear to be more like when unused- as I am sure with the Curvature of the Handle this Blade had more of a Peach Pruner or Hawk-bill type of Blade?
All Steel Liners, Pins and wee fancey fine threaded Bolsters and Butt Plate- a pretty cool Knife! I bet it was in it's day a darned looker!
The wood on this one is very deep like a Deep Dark Ebony- but.. right by the top Liners there Bright Fire red flickering on the very edges- real nice in the Sun! if you look carefully you will see this in the first photo.
Some styles of Knife like this can be quite large- this one is 4 inches closed, still to this day smooth and even pull with no Half Stop.

I think that some companies would call that a Peach Pruner .

Harry

 

[Campbellclanman]

Here is a Knife that makes me ask a few questions.
First question 1, -is the Blade full? the length is 100% I do not think that this Knife has had too much use- or it doesn't look like it it- careful examination shows original slight "brush mark" finish- some people clean their Knives and leave these marks- this knife has only the original I am sure.
The Kick when you see the photo that I have cropped up for the stamping shows a small heat mark from being taken back by being ground- whether this is factory or not I don't know, I doubt it- but then again Joseph Rodgers didn't make every knife to be a marvelous Gentleman's Dress Knife either - so I am not too sure
.
If this Knife has lost any blade- there is no loss to length leaving only possible Belly loss, the only way of finding this out is finding the Catalog photos of this Knife. There are no signs in any way that show the blade has been " evened" out at all - in fact hows no Sharpening Marks other than scuff marks at the tip.

Second question 2, The Nail Nick! note the position of the Nail Nick- being of a VERY stout pull - this makes the knife near impossible to open - yet on the Pile side of the Main as you can see they had more room for better placement on the Blade for easier purchase of the Blade? to me this is a design fault which would explain as to why this Knife has had little use!
The Main has a long Turkish Clip - Point Blade - Both the Main and the Pen Blades opens with such an assertive snap at half stop- there is nothing safe at all with very stout pulls and hard snappy Springs - I have cut myself so many times on a very hard pull Knife with Half Stops that I wonder why they were implemented for safety because I know of many people who are experienced Knife Knuts who have cut themselves badly on hard-pull sprung Knives with Safety Stops.
So - yes... thats why I scratch my Head with the positioning of the Nail Nick, and I wonder why not the Pile side where it could have been easily placed further toward the Tip.

Last question - 3, Cutlers to "His Majesty" what is the time period where this stamping fits? I did have these different times charted but cannot find it , for example, Cutlers to Her Majesty, Cutlers to their Majesties etc.
A smaller Jack at a hairs width over 3 & 1/4 inches long...

 

[Campbellclanman]

lol - I apologise Herder Sir!

Harry my friend, I think you are right in the family of the Knife's usage etc, but I think this Knife may? have had a wee descending sharper tip?

 

[Old Engineer]

lol - I apologise Herder Sir!

Harry my friend, I think you are right in the family of the Knife's usage etc, but I think this Knife may? have had a wee descending sharper tip?

You are probably right about the Descending Tip Duncan . I can still remember the Old Guys doing work all day with blades carrying a Stone in their pocket to re-sharpen during the days work . I have sharpened curved blades with hand held stones and I just seem to increase the pressure out at the tip .
On the Rodgers heavy pull issue : As an old engineer I find myself finding faults with various products that I use . Ever now and then I think to myself " Did the fool who designed this ever try to use it " ? That sure looks like the case with the Nick Position of your knife . Very nice looking older knife my friend .

Harry

 

[herder]

Here is a Herder that I wish I got hold of before it had some Blade loss, Herder ( our friend here ) I am sure of - may have a catalog picture of what this knife did appear to be more like when unused- as I am sure with the Curvature of the Handle this Blade had more of a Peach Pruner or Hawk-bill type of Blade?
All Steel Liners, Pins and wee fancey fine threaded Bolsters and Butt Plate- a pretty cool Knife! I bet it was in it's day a darned looker!
The wood on this one is very deep like a Deep Dark Ebony- but.. right by the top Liners there Bright Fire red flickering on the very edges- real nice in the Sun! if you look carefully you will see this in the first photo.
Some styles of Knife like this can be quite large- this one is 4 inches closed, still to this day smooth and even pull with no Half Stop.

Here is a catalog illustration from c. 1928 showing basically the same model which was offered in stag, wood, or horn. As you can see from the catalog cut, the blade on your model looks nearly full.
Great old knife.

View attachment 1310858

 

[herder]

Here is a Knife that makes me ask a few questions.
First question 1, -is the Blade full? the length is 100% I do not think that this Knife has had too much use- or it doesn't look like it it- careful examination shows original slight "brush mark" finish- some people clean their Knives and leave these marks- this knife has only the original I am sure.
The Kick when you see the photo that I have cropped up for the stamping shows a small heat mark from being taken back by being ground- whether this is factory or not I don't know, I doubt it- but then again Joseph Rodgers didn't make every knife to be a marvelous Gentleman's Dress Knife either - so I am not too sure
.
If this Knife has lost any blade- there is no loss to length leaving only possible Belly loss, the only way of finding this out is finding the Catalog photos of this Knife. There are no signs in any way that show the blade has been " evened" out at all - in fact hows no Sharpening Marks other than scuff marks at the tip.

Second question 2, The Nail Nick! note the position of the Nail Nick- being of a VERY stout pull - this makes the knife near impossible to open - yet on the Pile side of the Main as you can see they had more room for better placement on the Blade for easier purchase of the Blade? to me this is a design fault which would explain as to why this Knife has had little use!
The Main has a long Turkish Clip - Point Blade - Both the Main and the Pen Blades opens with such an assertive snap at half stop- there is nothing safe at all with very stout pulls and hard snappy Springs - I have cut myself so many times on a very hard pull Knife with Half Stops that I wonder why they were implemented for safety because I know of many people who are experienced Knife Knuts who have cut themselves badly on hard-pull sprung Knives with Safety Stops.
So - yes... thats why I scratch my Head with the positioning of the Nail Nick, and I wonder why not the Pile side where it could have been easily placed further toward the Tip.

Last question - 3, Cutlers to "His Majesty" what is the time period where this stamping fits? I did have these different times charted but cannot find it , for example, Cutlers to Her Majesty, Cutlers to their Majesties etc.
A smaller Jack at a hairs width over 3 & 1/4 inches long...

You snuck in another nice one before I logged off last night.
I believe that is a classic "Bunny Knife" pattern, and all original. The G (crown) R dates that model from from 1910 to 1952 with King George (His Majesty) ruling at that time.
That model was probably meant for export to possibly Australia or New Zealand as a popular model in those countries. I couldn't find an exact match for that knife, but am showing a later comparable example along with a very similar blade from another model yet. As Old Engineer mentioned, bad design on the location of the blade nail pull, but the blade shape didn't allow for many options. Another great old knife my friend!!!

View attachment 1310864

View attachment 1310865

 

[Augie]

Here is a Knife that makes me ask a few questions.
First question 1, -is the Blade full? the length is 100% I do not think that this Knife has had too much use- or it doesn't look like it it- careful examination shows original slight "brush mark" finish- some people clean their Knives and leave these marks- this knife has only the original I am sure.
The Kick when you see the photo that I have cropped up for the stamping shows a small heat mark from being taken back by being ground- whether this is factory or not I don't know, I doubt it- but then again Joseph Rodgers didn't make every knife to be a marvelous Gentleman's Dress Knife either - so I am not too sure
.
If this Knife has lost any blade- there is no loss to length leaving only possible Belly loss, the only way of finding this out is finding the Catalog photos of this Knife. There are no signs in any way that show the blade has been " evened" out at all - in fact hows no Sharpening Marks other than scuff marks at the tip.

Second question 2, The Nail Nick! note the position of the Nail Nick- being of a VERY stout pull - this makes the knife near impossible to open - yet on the Pile side of the Main as you can see they had more room for better placement on the Blade for easier purchase of the Blade? to me this is a design fault which would explain as to why this Knife has had little use!
The Main has a long Turkish Clip - Point Blade - Both the Main and the Pen Blades opens with such an assertive snap at half stop- there is nothing safe at all with very stout pulls and hard snappy Springs - I have cut myself so many times on a very hard pull Knife with Half Stops that I wonder why they were implemented for safety because I know of many people who are experienced Knife Knuts who have cut themselves badly on hard-pull sprung Knives with Safety Stops.
So - yes... thats why I scratch my Head with the positioning of the Nail Nick, and I wonder why not the Pile side where it could have been easily placed further toward the Tip.

Last question - 3, Cutlers to "His Majesty" what is the time period where this stamping fits? I did have these different times charted but cannot find it , for example, Cutlers to Her Majesty, Cutlers to their Majesties etc.
A smaller Jack at a hairs width over 3 & 1/4 inches long...

Duncan, I like that knife, agree with Herder, King George. Another neat detail with that knife is the way the Sheffield tang stamp is arched down, I don't ever recall seeing that.

 

[danno50]

A flurry of great knives posted in the last couple of days by L lambertiana , Lee @LongBlade, Rob rockman0 , Charlie waynorth , @North Shore and Duncan Campbellclanman . Also an interesting and informative discussion on shields.

Sweet Pen from Empire, Lee! An example of their great knives!! The shield on the first of your two Empires seems to have been exclusive to Empire for many years, until Schrade borrowed it giving their version of it credit as an "Empire" shield, after WWII!!
"Bear-y" honorable of Schrade!!
Here we have an original above Schrade's version! Schrade detailed it a bit but copied the shape, and called it an Empire shield in their advertising!!View attachment 1310394 View attachment 1310395

Charlie, in the post above, you indicate that the top knife is an example of an original Empire shield. I assume that is an Empire electrician's knife it is on. I have a Schrade Cut Co electrician's knife which is the spitting image of that one?

 

[waynorth]

Apparently the Bunny knife was popular and necessary when rabbits, an introduced species, overran Australia (and New Zealand?)l
Germany got into the act as well as Sheffield. Geez, Mildred, Bunny pie AGAIN??
The A.Wright is not an old knife of course!

 

[danno50]

Nice batch of bunny knives, Charlie!

 

[waynorth]

Hey Dan, @danno , Maybe Empire made that Electrician's knife for Schrade Cut Co??

 

[danno50]

Thanks, Charlie, that is what I was asking in a round about kind of way. My Schrade Cut Co is a dead ringer for yours, except not in quite a good condition.

 

[rockman0]

Thanks Duncan I love the old tested era hunters and coke bottles the swedges on this little Nash are nicely done, I love em

Charlie, Nice Schrades with the Empire Bar Shield - man that Top one!!!! I was having dizzy spells after my surgery- and they just haven't stopped reading this Thread!!!!!

Nice digging Herder Sir- I can imagine all the pages flying up in the air when reading this Thread and then onto a mission!!!

North Shore- Nice Case- that's a real nice looking Case Jack that one- love the Mellow Bone!

Rob - Wow! Those two Case Hunters are gorgeous, I sideline an are for big Hunters in my Collection and there's a couple of great Cases in There- yours a simply awesome!
The you follow up with that very very nice Nash - again a stellar example of just how Jigg work can be like! And the Swage work on that Pen is mental! Love it! That's a very cool old Knife there my friend.

This thread is moving so fast I can't keep up well enough to compliment them all!! lots of outstanding knives being posted
Keep em coming

 

[lambertiana]

Here is a Herder that I wish I got hold of before it had some Blade loss, Herder ( our friend here ) I am sure of - may have a catalog picture of what this knife did appear to be more like when unused- as I am sure with the Curvature of the Handle this Blade had more of a Peach Pruner or Hawk-bill type of Blade?
All Steel Liners, Pins and wee fancey fine threaded Bolsters and Butt Plate- a pretty cool Knife! I bet it was in it's day a darned looker!
The wood on this one is very deep like a Deep Dark Ebony- but.. right by the top Liners there Bright Fire red flickering on the very edges- real nice in the Sun! if you look carefully you will see this in the first photo.
Some styles of Knife like this can be quite large- this one is 4 inches closed, still to this day smooth and even pull with no Half Stop.

I would bet that the wood is cocobolo. I have cocobolo handled knives that I purchased new and they looked this dark after five or so years of regular carry. The noticeable red in sunlight is a giveaway.

Here is a Knife that makes me ask a few questions.
First question 1, -is the Blade full? the length is 100% I do not think that this Knife has had too much use- or it doesn't look like it it- careful examination shows original slight "brush mark" finish- some people clean their Knives and leave these marks- this knife has only the original I am sure.
The Kick when you see the photo that I have cropped up for the stamping shows a small heat mark from being taken back by being ground- whether this is factory or not I don't know, I doubt it- but then again Joseph Rodgers didn't make every knife to be a marvelous Gentleman's Dress Knife either - so I am not too sure
.
If this Knife has lost any blade- there is no loss to length leaving only possible Belly loss, the only way of finding this out is finding the Catalog photos of this Knife. There are no signs in any way that show the blade has been " evened" out at all - in fact hows no Sharpening Marks other than scuff marks at the tip.

Second question 2, The Nail Nick! note the position of the Nail Nick- being of a VERY stout pull - this makes the knife near impossible to open - yet on the Pile side of the Main as you can see they had more room for better placement on the Blade for easier purchase of the Blade? to me this is a design fault which would explain as to why this Knife has had little use!
The Main has a long Turkish Clip - Point Blade - Both the Main and the Pen Blades opens with such an assertive snap at half stop- there is nothing safe at all with very stout pulls and hard snappy Springs - I have cut myself so many times on a very hard pull Knife with Half Stops that I wonder why they were implemented for safety because I know of many people who are experienced Knife Knuts who have cut themselves badly on hard-pull sprung Knives with Safety Stops.
So - yes... thats why I scratch my Head with the positioning of the Nail Nick, and I wonder why not the Pile side where it could have been easily placed further toward the Tip.

Last question - 3, Cutlers to "His Majesty" what is the time period where this stamping fits? I did have these different times charted but cannot find it , for example, Cutlers to Her Majesty, Cutlers to their Majesties etc.
A smaller Jack at a hairs width over 3 & 1/4 inches long...

Question 1: If the blade isn't full it's pretty close. At first glance, the way the spine drops suddenly close to the tip and the edge at the tip is curved up, it looks like there was some sharpening at the tip area. And maybe someone ground off the top of the spine near the tip if the tip originally sat proud. But the blade is the full length of the blade well, so it couldn't have been any longer than it already is. It's hard to tell in the pictures, but if the edge bevel transitions smoothly the entire length of the blade, without a thicker section behind the edge anywhere, I would think it has seen very little sharpening. It would be obvious if someone sharpened away a deeper belly because that part of the blade would be thicker behind the edge.

Question 2: It is rare to see nail nicks on the pile side, so, in keeping with tradition, they probably wanted to keep the nail nick on the mark side, and the only way to make it accessible behind the pen blade was to put the nick close to the tang. The shape of the master blade and the way it sits deep in the blade well leave no other choice. But you will need strong nails to open it.