"Old Knives"

[waynorth]

I agree Charlie - not sure we will know a definitive reason for them but I think I just like the look of them - and I imagine it was abit more difficult to strike the pull as such in contrast to a nail nick (you can see slight hand struck variation on the pulls in terms of placement even on this knife) - but given all that in Clasussen et al.'s Sheffield Exhibition book (pg 184 ) I quote "On the finer knives the nail marks extended through the tangs, as does this one, etc etc" - I guess I was going on this as perhaps a sign of cutler skill and accordingly quality - but like you said who knows ....

Ha Ha!! In 1962, I remember being told by my homeroom teacher, when I started High School (Jesuit School!!), that being able to accept uncertainty is a sign of maturity!!
I think it was in answer to a "why" question that he said was unanswerable!!

Here's a "why" question!! Why did this post-war Primble make it all the way to now(2020), without being used or sharpened!! Ha Ha!!
3 5/16" long, beautiful Bone, walk and talk!!

 

[herder]

Thanks very much to all for the kind comments ...

One thing I forgot to mention but sure many noticed is that the long pulls on each blade follow through the tang... Those pulls always intrigued me and I have read that in terms of Sheffield Exhibition knives they were not uncommon (I've seen them on many IXLs, a few Rodgers knives and others as just examples) and I have seen them on a few American (mostly CT cutlery made knives that no doubt were primarily employed by Sheffield emigrants at the time - and probably some exist from other cutleries outside CT (maybe MA) but I just have never seen them) - To me the long pulls extended through the tang provide no functional improvement to my knowledge and seem from my reading in the Sheffield Exhibition book that it was a show of cutler skill ... anyway it was just another aspect that was a highlight for me ... But if anybody has anything to add about long pulls through the tang I would be interested in their perspective ...

Cheers - Lee

Nice feature with the long pulls going through the tang which is not common as you mentioned, and certainly done for aesthetic reasons only. While it is an English trait from the 19th century, more American cutlery companies used this detail than thought. It appears that the long pulls going into the tang were used on some American-made pocket knives from the late 1800s to around WWI. Two Northfield Knife catalogs from 1865 and 1869 show no pocket knives with long pulls going through the tang. The earliest showing of such a trait is seen in a Burkinshaw illustration from the late 1800s. The first dated illustration is seen in a Walden catalog from 1892, followed by Excelsior in 1894, Humason & Beckley in 1900, and Holley in 1905 and 1915. While I didn't check every source, the last illustration I see for a long nail pull going through the blade tang is Holley in 1915. Interestingly, only a few examples out of dozens of knives shown from the catalogs mentioned, show that particular style of nail pull.

So, it appears that those long nail pulls going through the tang were a late 1800s to early 1900s feature on just a few pocket knives from just a few American cutlery companies.

Enclosed is a picture from a 1865 Northfield catalog and one from a 1915 Holley catalog.

View attachment 1427212

View attachment 1427213

 

[herder]

Absolutely stunning Primble example, Charlie!!!

 

[LongBlade]

Ha Ha!! In 1962, I remember being told by my homeroom teacher, when I started High School (Jesuit School!!), that being able to accept uncertainty is a sign of maturity!!
I think it was in answer to a "why" question that he said was unanswerable!!

Here's a "why" question!! Why did this post-war Primble make it all the way to now(2020), without being used or sharpened!! Ha Ha!!View attachment 1427214 View attachment 1427215 View attachment 1427216 View attachment 1427217 View attachment 1427218
3 5/16" long, beautiful Bone, walk and talk!!

Charlie - Why is it a sign of maturity to accept uncertainty? .. and why is that Primble "mint"? He forgot he bought it and the knife sat in his bottom drawer - why did he put it in the bottom drawer? So his wife wouldn't find it ... I'm working on maturity ...

 

[LongBlade]

Nice feature with the long pulls going through the tang which is not common as you mentioned, and certainly done for aesthetic reasons only. While it is an English trait from the 19th century, more American cutlery companies used this detail than thought. It appears that the long pulls going into the tang were used on some American-made pocket knives from the late 1800s to around WWI. Two Northfield Knife catalogs from 1865 and 1869 show no pocket knives with long pulls going through the tang. The earliest showing of such a trait is seen in a Burkinshaw illustration from the late 1800s. The first dated illustration is seen in a Walden catalog from 1892, followed by Excelsior in 1894, Humason & Beckley in 1900, and Holley in 1905 and 1915. While I didn't check every source, the last illustration I see for a long nail pull going through the blade tang is Holley in 1915. Interestingly, only a few examples out of dozens of knives shown from the catalogs mentioned, show that particular style of nail pull.

So, it appears that those long nail pulls going through the tang were a late 1800s to early 1900s feature on just a few pocket knives from just a few American cutlery companies.

Enclosed is a picture from a 1865 Northfield catalog and one from a 1915 Holley catalog.

View attachment 1427212

View attachment 1427213

Nice feature with the long pulls going through the tang which is not common as you mentioned, and certainly done for aesthetic reasons only. While it is an English trait from the 19th century, more American cutlery companies used this detail than thought. It appears that the long pulls going into the tang were used on some American-made pocket knives from the late 1800s to around WWI. Two Northfield Knife catalogs from 1865 and 1869 show no pocket knives with long pulls going through the tang. The earliest showing of such a trait is seen in a Burkinshaw illustration from the late 1800s. The first dated illustration is seen in a Walden catalog from 1892, followed by Excelsior in 1894, Humason & Beckley in 1900, and Holley in 1905 and 1915. While I didn't check every source, the last illustration I see for a long nail pull going through the blade tang is Holley in 1915. Interestingly, only a few examples out of dozens of knives shown from the catalogs mentioned, show that particular style of nail pull.

So, it appears that those long nail pulls going through the tang were a late 1800s to early 1900s feature on just a few pocket knives from just a few American cutlery companies.

Enclosed is a picture from a 1865 Northfield catalog and one from a 1915 Holley catalog.

View attachment 1427212

View attachment 1427213

Thanks very much for that perspective and info Herder ... I think that as you say the aesthetics of the pull through the tang are pleasing indeed - they caught my eye ... I've seen a few other CT knives with pulls through the tang - right below is a Southington (and I have one other pen with same pulls from them) and I know of a Waterville Whittler from a friend which has long pulls through the tang and in fact the master has long pulls through the tang on both sides of the blade - I may have a few others as well but need to check ... thanks again for the info and catalog cut post which I appreciate - ...

Cheers - Lee

 

[herder]

Thanks very much for that perspective and info Herder ... I think that as you say the aesthetics of the pull through the tang are pleasing indeed - they caught my eye ... I've seen a few other CT knives with pulls through the tang - right below is a Southington (and I have one other pen with same pulls from them) and I know of a Waterville Whittler from a friend which has long pulls through the tang and in fact the master has long pulls through the tang on both sides of the blade - I may have a few others as well but need to check ... thanks again for the info and catalog cut post which I appreciate - ...

Cheers - Lee

Glad to add a bit, the questions and discussions make this thread all the more enjoyable.
Nice pearl Southington whittler with those same long pulls.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Great discussions guys.

Charlie what a great Knife!!! Gorgeous Bone!!

 

[Old Engineer]

I haven't been to this thread in awhile but indeed, as usual, some fantastic old knives posted by all ...

I have a few to add but this one was fairly recent as to an addition and as I said elsewhere this knife floats my boat... alot .. So a good place to start ..

Northfield Congress Whittler - Ivory - Curved Bar Shield - Nice sheep foot master and 2 secondaries (pen and coping) - 3 & 3/16" closed... Not easy to find congress whittlers never mind a Northfield ...

I've been on a whittler kick - just seemed to evolve - guess it happens ..

That knife would float a heck of a large boat for me my friend . WOW !!!

 

[LongBlade]

That knife would float a heck of a large boat for me my friend . WOW !!!

Thanks very much Old Engineer ...

 

[Campbellclanman]

I was SO pleased to pick up this amazing old Knife the other day, The Walk and Talk are so tight- without the slightest exaggeration -as good as new- it's outstanding, being the older Knife the Pull is hard- but far from impossible.
Lovely Marked Knife, Deeply Stamped Blade from a the era when ( imo) Sheffield ruled the World.

The thing I like about this knife- is everything!
The hammered Pins, one could say that this Knife may have been re-handled - I will argue this, the Pins are as messy as you can get when coming the Hammered, the Stag used captures everything for me- the remaining scars from the lifetime of the occupier still clearly visible, together with very nice Stag and the added notches you see next to the Liners on the edge of the Stag to help the user apply the best possible grip of this "Tool".

Not the most common Stamp to find on a Tang " Abram Brooksbank " Sheffield.

The Integral Bolsters help guide us to the late 1800's era where this was more common, but I am sure this isn't always the rule but in this case I wouldn't mind betting.

A bit of use, but still a very respectable Big, Heavy Pruner, who may be new to the "Go Big or Go Home" Pruner gang, this formidable Knife has already work it's way to the Council of the Gang!

 

[danno50]

Beautiful Primble, Charlie! I believe you have a great many knives in your collection of which the same "why" question could be asked. I assume the shadow of the blade etch is an illusion created by your scanner?
Lovely Southington whittler, Lee! I like the long pulls through the tang.
Great old pruner, Duncan! That one would also look good in the Sheffield thread.

 

[eisman]

the added notches you see next to the Liners on the edge of the Stag

I doubt it's been rehandled, but I'm willing to bet those notches were added by the owner when he lost some of the original scale.

 

[r8shell]

I was SO pleased to pick up this amazing old Knife the other day, The Walk and Talk are so tight- without the slightest exaggeration -as good as new- it's outstanding, being the older Knife the Pull is hard- but far from impossible.
Lovely Marked Knife, Deeply Stamped Blade from a the era when ( imo) Sheffield ruled the World.

The thing I like about this knife- is everything!
The hammered Pins, one could say that this Knife may have been re-handled - I will argue this, the Pins are as messy as you can get when coming the Hammered, the Stag used captures everything for me- the remaining scars from the lifetime of the occupier still clearly visible, together with very nice Stag and the added notches you see next to the Liners on the edge of the Stag to help the user apply the best possible grip of this "Tool".

Not the most common Stamp to find on a Tang " Abram Brooksbank " Sheffield.

The Integral Bolsters help guide us to the late 1800's era where this was more common, but I am sure this isn't always the rule but in this case I wouldn't mind betting.

A bit of use, but still a very respectable Big, Heavy Pruner, who may be new to the "Go Big or Go Home" Pruner gang, this formidable Knife has already work it's way to the Council of the Gang!

Amazing!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Thanks for the kind comments Dan, Eisman and R8shell
Eisman - That discussion was held before sometime ago - you will see these grips added in quite a few of the older knives and they are or should I say we’re done by the
Cutlers.
There has been no Handle material lost on the knife - the Stag has been taken down as they do to the Liner.

 

[waynorth]

Beautiful Primble, Charlie! I believe you have a great many knives in your collection of which the same "why" question could be asked. I assume the shadow of the blade etch is an illusion created by your scanner?
Lovely Southington whittler, Lee! I like the long pulls through the tang.
Great old pruner, Duncan! That one would also look good in the Sheffield thread.

Thanks, Dan!! Yes I couldn't get a good scan of that iconic logo etch!!

I doubt it's been rehandled, but I'm willing to bet those notches were added by the owner when he lost some of the original scale.

I have some handles with the same notches; they look like a strike on a coarse wheel, or with coarse sandpaper, filling in the lack of grippy texture! A true working knife, built that way, IMO!!

 

[LongBlade]

I was SO pleased to pick up this amazing old Knife the other day, The Walk and Talk are so tight- without the slightest exaggeration -as good as new- it's outstanding, being the older Knife the Pull is hard- but far from impossible.
Lovely Marked Knife, Deeply Stamped Blade from a the era when ( imo) Sheffield ruled the World.

The thing I like about this knife- is everything!
The hammered Pins, one could say that this Knife may have been re-handled - I will argue this, the Pins are as messy as you can get when coming the Hammered, the Stag used captures everything for me- the remaining scars from the lifetime of the occupier still clearly visible, together with very nice Stag and the added notches you see next to the Liners on the edge of the Stag to help the user apply the best possible grip of this "Tool".

Not the most common Stamp to find on a Tang " Abram Brooksbank " Sheffield.

The Integral Bolsters help guide us to the late 1800's era where this was more common, but I am sure this isn't always the rule but in this case I wouldn't mind betting.

A bit of use, but still a very respectable Big, Heavy Pruner, who may be new to the "Go Big or Go Home" Pruner gang, this formidable Knife has already work it's way to the Council of the Gang!

Great old hawkbill Duncan ... That stag screams character - the notches are cool to me - and interesting that Charlie has a similar knife with those marks!! Love those old knives made to work and as we know those hawkbills were hard used knives ...

waynorth - Charlie - I should have noted above that your mint Primble is awesome - I was busy answering the "why" questions in my post above and forgot ...

 

[herder]

I was SO pleased to pick up this amazing old Knife the other day, The Walk and Talk are so tight- without the slightest exaggeration -as good as new- it's outstanding, being the older Knife the Pull is hard- but far from impossible.
Lovely Marked Knife, Deeply Stamped Blade from a the era when ( imo) Sheffield ruled the World.

The thing I like about this knife- is everything!
The hammered Pins, one could say that this Knife may have been re-handled - I will argue this, the Pins are as messy as you can get when coming the Hammered, the Stag used captures everything for me- the remaining scars from the lifetime of the occupier still clearly visible, together with very nice Stag and the added notches you see next to the Liners on the edge of the Stag to help the user apply the best possible grip of this "Tool".

Not the most common Stamp to find on a Tang " Abram Brooksbank " Sheffield.

The Integral Bolsters help guide us to the late 1800's era where this was more common, but I am sure this isn't always the rule but in this case I wouldn't mind betting.

A bit of use, but still a very respectable Big, Heavy Pruner, who may be new to the "Go Big or Go Home" Pruner gang, this formidable Knife has already work it's way to the Council of the Gang!

Fantastic original example from the 1800s my friend. That beauty belongs in at least three different threads!!!

 

[paulhilborn]

I was SO pleased to pick up this amazing old Knife the other day, The Walk and Talk are so tight- without the slightest exaggeration -as good as new- it's outstanding, being the older Knife the Pull is hard- but far from impossible.
Lovely Marked Knife, Deeply Stamped Blade from a the era when ( imo) Sheffield ruled the World.

The thing I like about this knife- is everything!
The hammered Pins, one could say that this Knife may have been re-handled - I will argue this, the Pins are as messy as you can get when coming the Hammered, the Stag used captures everything for me- the remaining scars from the lifetime of the occupier still clearly visible, together with very nice Stag and the added notches you see next to the Liners on the edge of the Stag to help the user apply the best possible grip of this "Tool".

Not the most common Stamp to find on a Tang " Abram Brooksbank " Sheffield.

The Integral Bolsters help guide us to the late 1800's era where this was more common, but I am sure this isn't always the rule but in this case I wouldn't mind betting.

A bit of use, but still a very respectable Big, Heavy Pruner, who may be new to the "Go Big or Go Home" Pruner gang, this formidable Knife has already work it's way to the Council of the Gang!

Duncan, yeah I guess it's kinda nice IT'S AWESOME my friend, you know I love dem Pruners did you tell me about that one??? or just keep it a secret, hmmmm

Seriously, an awesome knife my friend and I do recall that conversation about those handle marks, as I have an old Turner that has those same marks

 

[North Shore]

I have to jump when I see a Union Cutlery Era KA-BAR in nice shape in gnarly stag with a pinned shield.

 

[danno50]

Nice find, North Shore, lovely aged stag!