OT, personal matter, had the stuffing knocked out

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
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Don't read this if personal matters are seen as too awkard or uncessary in HI. I am taking a chance writing it, but what the hell.

Two days ago I had the hell beat out of me. It has been many years, 2o maybe, since I was in a fight. Some of you know the trouble I've had with a neighbor who wanted to block the road to my house because he owned about 20 yards of it, and I about 70, both to our front. I couldn't explain all the wherefores behind this. He thinks the mining talings used as fill are toxic- at least, that is what our water bond the little town was able to get financed stipulated. He'd like to ruin the project and get some heads rolled. I came into this because I'd wanted our road kept travelable. He doesn't actually believe there is any health hazard, he just want to make trouble .
He hates the water board and would deny them anything he could. This is the guy who'd blocked the road with his pickup. My 40 years old pregnant wife was forced to walk a hundred yards down an icy hill at 20 below in the dead of winter to get to her car. I told him what I thought about that, and viewing my trembling rage he backed down at that time. Even a grizzly won't fit badger guarding their young.
This man is considered one of the most hateful human beings in the county. Most people know him, though he has no freinds. He's poached deer and left the carcasses to rot. I could go on.

I was giving a Khukuri to the owner of the bar cafe. I had to enter through the cafe because the bar door was closed. I don't avoid this man, but something warned me and I should have listened. He is very close to signing the Easement between our properties- the one he said he would never sign.

When I saw him I had the sudden impulse to speak and try to mend fences. He screamed at me and shouldered past.
"Please, don't do this, lets talk," and I laid a hand on his shoulder.
I'd been about to tell him I didn't care about mining tailings and would haul normal rock from the prairre as a gesture to him.
Anyway, you know what happend. He flattend me so fast I had no time to defend. My glasses were not only torn off my face but metal is actually torn away instead of breaking at the joint. I guess i should mention this guy weighs 400 pounds. I was on the ground and he had a spoon in his hand which he raised to the sky and imbeded into my scalp. He did this several times, and though I said, "enough!" he continued several more.

There's a bunch of stiches in my head, spoon marks, if you can believe that- assualt with a spoon. My face is fractured. Apparently the bones haven't drifted far apart so that won't need any further attention. This is good, becuase I can't imagine how they fix that- put your head in a vice and squeeze? My right eye apppears intact and I will gain my vision back as soon as the pressure goes down.

I'm lucky I'm still alive. I feel pretty bad about it- yes, you don't get somone on the ground and maim him, but If i'd been thinking clearly, I would have stopped speaking to him.

when things like this happen, many people think it is your fault. It has been a long time since I had to worry about what people think. You can't hide, or course, and I'll be walking around this guy through stores and various places again. No problem.

It's funny, but I feel a litle shame. I never landed a blow or ever tried, but here I am feeling low and stupid.

My life is rarely clean, and I made a slight mistake that muddied the water and will allow this buffoon to justify his actions. Too damn bad, but I'm a human and make mistakes. You'd have gotten a kick how fast the customers left and while I laid on the floor in a pool of blood the waitress came out and started mopping around me.

I thought about many of you here, able to defend yourselves well if you had to. I wish I could have too.

In a way I would consider explaining to some of you privately, this has turned me to the Lord. I need the Lord. I need a spiritual life again. Neighbors came over to help. I didn't want to go but they made a good point about the eye and a possible detached retina. They took care of my children, and one drove me over 20o miles one way to the hospital.

That's really about it. My face is cremated, and my soul in pain a little. You think you'd have gotten over this when you were 17 but here some of it is back again. Humbled down to the ground once more.

munk
 
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My life is rarely clean, and I made a slight mistake that muddied the water and will allow this buffoon to justify his actions.
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What could you have done that could justify an assault of this magnitude?
 
I don't think there are very many people that haven't at one time or another been caught off guard and pretty well put out of action for a while. I think this situation you are in right now is very similar to the reason that I don't have much to do with my neighbors. I didn' get stomped but, I back away from a situation that looked very bad. It seemed that thing develooped so fast into a mess that I almost got caught in the middle of it.

You are right about the lord helping. I don't have much luck with churches though. I find that a lot of the so called religious folks in my neighborhood talk one thing on Sunday and the rest of the week they don't act like the same people.

I still have most of my favorite Oak tree that was left me after the lightning strike. It is still a tree among trees around this place. There isn't a tree for miles that is as big as this one. My church. I'll email you.
 
Munk dont give up hope. If you never try to find justice, it will never find you. Ive had my own shares of distaste for the way courts go, have seen them do some real bad things. Believe me my own past has prevented me from finding the right path sometimes. However, somedays the beauracracy ocaissionally does good. Do not let this evil shadow your life. Of all the regrets I have, the greatest is knowing that my father died with my mistakes weighing heavily on his mind. It was not an easy thing to watch, as he lost his strength, his ability to speak, and to know it was not his own fate that weighed most on his mind, but mine... Do not let evil win, dont let the past or the minor mistakes destroy you... Im not sure how much words on the net can really help, but please have strength. I will keep you in my prayers.
 
munk: it wasn't your fault.

Let me repeat that: it wasn't your fault.

Touching someone on the shoulder doesn't justify his actions.

Trying to be decent doesn't give him the right to assault you.

Whatever you think of yourself doesn't give him the right to be a threat to others, including your wife. File the damned complaint and get the witnesses statements. Talk to the DA. Put him behind bars, get him charged with a felony assault so he can't own guns. That alone could save more than one life.

On the other, the spiritual side, I ain't gonna tell you anything unless you ask. Even then I may or may not have something to help other than friendship .

If you want, send me a message here:

Rusty

You sound to be really hurting. You know where to go to get help local, I expect.

And there are many here who are willing to do the same if asked. Right about now you don't sound like you even like yourself very much, let alone love yourself. That is normal for someone who's been beaten, literally. That's also where you're damn well wrong. The spirit is unlikely to heal before the body does. Know that you are one of my brothers, and I care for you because of whom you are. And I'm just one of them here. Far as the Lord goes, I expect he'll be talking to you. Out of your wife's mouth , out of people like Yvsa, out of the mouths of many people, even the horse's asses like me. As I said earlier:

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
Where there is charity and love, there is God.
 
Congrats, Munk (an explanation why follows below)! You did the right thing (which of course is easy to say since he didn't kill or permanently maimed you or your loved ones; it would have been different if he did - that's the beauty of hindsight). This one of those occassions when the complex society we have built up over the centuries actually helps justice. This is one way you can start using all years of service (if you are a veteran) and tax dollars you gave:

Even if the code of ethics where you live says each man takes care of his own business, file a report with local police / law enforcement, keep all medical receipts and treatments. Let the police / prosecutors decide whether they are going to press criminal charges. That's their job to decide. But what ever the criminal justice system decides, just keep everything documented on paper and make copies.

Next go on the web and find out on legal forums (yes, they do have them), who are the main personal injury lawyers in Montana (also check the Montana bar association and legal aid societies for recommendations - you would be surprised at how helpful they are in cases like yours). Take all the documentation including the police report, hospital/medical records, witness statements, etc. to them and ask them how you can sue. Tell them whether or not you can afford to pay fees. If not, don't worry; just asked them if they will take the case on a contingency payment. The standard rate is the lawyer taking 33% of total settlements while paying all his expenses including investigations, deposiitons, etc. The lawyer will decide whether the case is worthwhile taking on contingency. If he says no, don't worry. Just go to the next one on your list.

Once you have the best lawyer you can find, let him get on with it. Don't worry if your assaulter doesn't have money or insurance or whatever. Just try to stay out of his way. To be safe, have your family and you carry one of those cheap videocams. If he ever makes threats or approaches you or your family, get as much as you can on camera (including him prowling around your house, staring, etc.). Anything he does will just dig him in deeper. Report anything to the lawyer. If he gets worse, the lawyer will easily get a restraining order. If he violates that, he's going to be jailed (and you're position just grows stronger and stronger).

Now what might you expect? Your lawyer may settle or he may take it to court. Either way you will probably get some justice. If he has cash or insurance, you will get some or all of that. If he doesn't have enough, well he's your neighbor and owns 20ft. of the access road. Some or maybe all of his home and that road won't undo your paid. But it would be some form of partial justice.

Violence and temper may give hell in the very short term. But over the long term, using civil society and your brains is much more powerful.

That is why this might seem odd given your suffering of both mind and body. But congratulations! You've actually won. Your attacker lost the second he lay a hand on you in front of witnesses. And if you play your hand right, your attacker is going to suffer a lot over a very long time.

Good luck! You won't need it. Just find a good lawyer and document EVERYTHING you can on paper, on tape, on video. Think of the day when you'll point to your attacker's favorite possessions (including money and his family seeing what he has lost) and tell him "Well, that's mine now - not because I took it from you - but because you were just too stupid."
 
By the way, I just read my post and realized that I have got to proof read these things before I send them in. Sorry to all for the poor grammar, spelling, etc. I suppose I was just too anxious to tell Munk how smart (and brave) I think he is.
 
I think the Big Kahuna gave excellent advice. Take him down the legal way. As to the wounded spirit, I believe in karma. He will get his. In this life or the next. I believe your courage and honor will prevail in the end. Think of shame and rage like a wave. If you fight to swim over the top you will get swept away. If you dive into it and let it wash over you, then it will pass. I think I can safely say you still have the love and admiration of everyone in the Cantina. I know you have mine. Namaste, my Brother.

Frank
 
munk

Everyone gave good advice above although my experiences with the police and the system have been less than favorable.

As I see it, it is all about respect. Never tolerate disrespect from anyone. This lard a$$ doesn't respect you and fired the first shot. Now it is your turn. You must do something or you invite further grief. What that something is, is up to you.

I'm lucky I'm still alive.

My advice is to take heed. This animal may kill you next time. Carry a gun at all times. And be mentally prepared to use it. :mad:

Semp --
 
Did the Police Arrest him or not? He is dangerous. A 400 LB man who is crazy..:eek:

He really shouldn't be walking the streets, he needs to be locked up.

Don't try and do anything to him other than within the Law.

As Bill said document everything you can on tape, writing and video.

My advice is to take heed. This animal may kill you next time. Carry a gun at all times. And be mentally prepared to use it

I don't think I would do that though, he has hurt you very badly and if you do shoot him then you might be the one to go to jail.

Just walk softly and try and avoid him as the law does it's work.


But if he comes on you properity call the police everytime and you will beable to get a court order to restrain him. Use the law every chance you get and be smart.
 
Munk, I have come to know you only through your typed written words. You have always came across polite and considerate. You have voiced opinions with clarity and succinctness. I like you. I am very upset right now. Like one of my family has been hurt.

If I had been there, big word "if", I would have not watched. A friend once was being beat in a bar by 8 or so men down in Alabama. I was from Chicago,I couldn't walk out. It was one of the worst beatings of my life. His face was beat in and his jaw broken with a golf club. They probalbly would have killed him unless I jumped in to assist. Funny thing, there were about 5 other "friends" who ran out and didn't want to get involved. They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. This compelled me to always carry a handgun from the time I recovered, but that's another issue.

You can have him arrested with felonous assaualt, you can kill him [by various ways], but you have a family and you have everyone's attention, or you can contact friends, have him killed and you be in a public place at the time of his demise. Consider your options, the Chinese say, 20 years is not too long to wait to get even.:cool:

I hope you heal quickly, good luck.;)

Sam
 
Munk,
My heart goes out to you. I hope you heal quickly and well. In my younger days I would have said things about getting him later, when the time is right for you. Now that I am getting closer to 50 than 45 yrs old I realise that with family and other things to loose, one must act more thoughtfully.
The law must be brought into this. You were attached, brutally!! A hand on the shoulder of a giant beast of a man is not an excuse (in the laws eyes) to attach you like that. You have too much to loose personally to try some back woods justice. All eyes would turn towards you naturally after what he did to you. Use the system to its fullest. DEMAND action from the local law. As I say, when younger I would have felt that personal retribution against this man would be needed. We are older now and have people that count on us, we own things we do not want to loose because of a rash actions on our own parts. Get in touch with the law, and a lawyer. See if the system can be put to its rightful task of justice. I am usually a cinic, but you really need to have the law stop this man, before he kills! You will be helping others as well in the long run.
Take care of yourself and your family. Do as others stated with video and cameras. Document all that transpires from this point forward. Watch your back, and be armed, at least on your homestead!
Keep us apprised, you will be in our thoughts and prayers!!
 
Munk, hang tough brother, he'll get his down the road somewhere. I once stopped on a dark, lonely, road to help some guys I thought were having car trouble. Long story short, I wound up left for dead about four miles out of town. It was eighteen degrees out, and I lost a lot of blood, don't know what all they beat me with, but it took fifty two stitches just to close up my head. It wasn't thoughts of revenge that gave me the strength to crawl up out of that ditch and walk back to town, it was thoughts of my family and friends. I know you understand where I'm coming from. you ain't defeated until you decide you are. Let the docs heal your body and let love heal your spirit. Unlike Jim, I can lay no claim to sainthood, if I said I wouldn't love to drive out there right now and introduce that bas__rd to a world of pain, I'd be a miserable liar. Such feelings are natural, but you have to turn 'em loose, hanging on to the bad prevents us from embracing the good. That's the lesson my beating taught me.

So hang tough Munk, between your own family and your HI family, there's lots of folks that care about you. If you remember that, you'll get through this.

Sarge
 
I agree w/ Rusty. Get him locked up, file criminal charges and consider filing civil charges. Definetley file a complaint. That is the Civil way to handle things. If a problems arises later with you or someone else, there needs to be documentation. A lot of times, guys like this can handle physical aggression, but not the legal system. It is another arrow in the quiver.

The gun recommendation, I would tend to carry and use in defense for a situation like this, but that is personal preference. Don't get carried away and don't carry it if you are overly-emotional over the issue. In short, Don't f### up w/ a gun involved.

It sounds like legal response/criminal charges are the best first line of defense, if it ever comes to the second, you will have some documentation in your favor.

Think strategically and win.
 
Munk:

Losing a physical confrontation is always a major blow to the ego, whether it's in a real, street situation, or in a sanctioned environment like the boxing ring. It makes us realize our vulnerability.

Speaking as someone who has lost plenty of fights I can only say to keep your head up. It sounds like you know this, but it isn't an easy thing to do.

I also think that the advice that TBK gave you is very sound. Get the police and lawyers involved.

Also, I'd consider carrying a weapon. That's a tough decision, given the circumstances. But, if this guy decides to come after you (especially once the legal machinery gets rolling), you may need that level of protection.

My wife and I send our prayers for your recovery and safety.

S.
 
Munk, when someone attacks you out of the blue and you don't see it coming, you have no chance to defend yourself. There isn't anything you can do about it. You are lucky, sort of, that he only had a spoon in his hand. If he had a knife or a hammer you wouldn't be here to post. The thing is you didn't do anything wrong.

Although my first reaction is to get a shotgun and blow his f'n head off or stick a knife in his gut, for doing this, that would only land you in jail. Instead, I would go with the other's advice and get the law after the guy. While I am sure he has no regrets about what he did, except being in a public place where everybody saw him, he will once he has to start shelling out money to defend himself in court. I would get a pistol and carry. Once you start putting pressure on him, he will most likely come after you again.

I have a violent temper, always have, it runs in the family. Most of the time, especially the older you get, it's under complete control. I find that big things don't bother me at all, it's little stuff out of nowhere that catches you off guard and sends you off into a rage.
But, it's the bane of my existance, always lurking back there. Anyway, I have been on both sides of what happened. Example: I was 17, this other kid threw dishwater in my face, I hit him as hard as I could with what I had in my hand, a fiberglass cafeteria tray, split his skull open, he dropped like a rock, I jumped over the counter and pounded him until people pulled me off. Honestly, don't remember anything about it past the tray part.

I too, find it interesting what happens with your "friends" in a fight. I got into a bar fight in Lubbock, TX with these two Mexicans. I knocked one out, the other was bigger than me and had me down on the ground with his thumb in my eye, we were trading punches on the ground. When we were finally seperated and I got a chance to look around, I saw 3 of my friends standing with me, while the other 4 had managed to make it to the entire other side of the room. Kind of makes it easy too see who you can count on.
 
It's always your choice. Always.

but I wouldn't carry a weapon anywhere near this guy. Pre-meditation is an element to consider should something happen. However, you probably need a cane of some sort...because your equilibrium is a little shakey, right? (just a thought.)

Beyond that, start the wheels of "justice" rolling, then do whatever you can to put it aside. Stuff like this can fester inside you.

The law allows an "appropriate" response to an assault. That is, you are to remove the threat to your well-being without being excessive--no hand grenade for being bumped in line, etc.... Once the threat is removed, any additional force is considered assault on YOUR part.

He crossed the line.

For the lawsuit, and personal injury lawyers? Again, your choice...but these "professionals" will make you crazy. You have three years (in Wisconsin) to file, should you choose. Think it through. It may not be worth it.
 
Munk,

I am really sorry to hear about you getting hurt. My prayers go out to you and your family.

The advice for getting LE and lawyers involved is spot on. This individual is too dangerous to roam around free in society. Follow the advice and get them (LE/legal) invovled. It is IMPERATIVE in order to get this guy into the system in case something else happens. Get a file started on him (if there isn't one already) with the authorities.

SInce you are neighbors, staying out of his way will be next to impossible. A restraining order should be obtained immediately (not that it'd stop him... but it is another step in the process, and if he violates it, he's gone). Don't wait on this... get on it right away. His actions and the situation should justify one being issued.

STAY out of his way... MAKE SURE THAT ANY CONTACT with him is by HIS doing. Pretty obvious, but it will help re-enforce the restraining order, or enforcing his violation of it.

Carrying a firearm is a good idea at this point as long as you do so legally. He is a violent person. He has demonstrated his willingness to use violence to the extreme. The chances of him doing so again are good. You'd be fully justified carrying, and if you had to use lethal force to protect you and your family, no one would be able to deny it. That is why it is important to get the stuff above going. It documents the situation, his past history of violent behavior, and your fear for you and your family's safety.

Doing so is not for revenge, nor an act of premeditated plans to harm this individual... it is to protect yourself and family from a violent individual. This guy almost beat you to death... He is a neighbor (lives in close proximity) to you... He has history of anti-social behavior in the community... He has demonstrated his willingness to hold a grudge... He has demonstated his willingness to use lethal force with little/no provocation... You have reason enough to fear for your safety, and should the situation arise, use lethal force to protect yourself. Check out this site for some information on lethal force statutes in Montana:

http://www.mtssa.org/lethalforce.html

Individuals like this are parasites living off of humanity. Don't be hard on yourself for being a victim. Like Rusty said... IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! You did absolutely nothing to deserve this.

Get healthy. Feel free to write if you need too.

Alan
 
I can't express myself in the way I'd like to.I don't want to get kicked off the the forums:D .........:mad: As I said I would like to visit u.Does anyone would like to come along.....;)IT'S NOT U'R FAULT..... SUE,SUE,SUE........
 
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