POOR customer service

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ncrockclimb said:
We used to believe them. I know I did at first. Then, so many of the things they said ended up being inaccurate. Now, they have almost zero credibility except with a few "true believers."
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I totally get that. There just seem to be a lot of requests to hear from Guy, but I'm not sure what those folks are hoping to hear.
 
Skycool said:
I'm sure in the eyes of Survive!, BF has become a place of constant negatively without much upside to chiming in here. Justafied or not I wouldn't come to this lions den if I were them, what good could come out of it ? They will get all the same questions they always get and the same reactions to their answers/non answers.
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A double edged sort of sword proposition for sure, pun intended; but here's the problem:

I am sure that the Site's powers-that-be are closely monitoring the events very closely on here even though they have not decided to take any immediate actions. If the Admin / Site's owner steps in or one of the Super Mods steps in to take a number of what could be deemed as appropriate actions, one could be that they may decide to suspend a seemingly out of control subform rife with rampant speculations. This subform used to be left to its own devices because by and large before there were any sub moderators, this place just chugged along quite nicely as customers were getting their knives pretty much within a reasonable length of time (one can trace the root of the backlog issues all the way back to the move form PA to ID with the projected the expansion of the business via vis more preorder of the newer GSO models, added patterns, etc...).

Today Survive! is faced with an increasingly larger number of dissatisfied customers some of whom have been long time BFC members and some who have found of this place through different means and have started to trickle into this place. This increase in disquiet and discontent if left unheeded and unanswered by the Principal will end up posing unwanted but warranted challenges for this Site' Admin because although there is no correlation between Survive! and BFC other than memberships, site's rules and all the basic stuff; the Site may decide to cease being a party to issues caving on Survive! (apologies as I had previously and erroneously stated the Site) akin to a huge avalanche! Also if the word gets out that for instance BFC suspended or shut down the sub, this will have huge repercussions for Survive! simply because BFC is the leading Site / Community among knife enthusiasts and the knife industry.

In summary, I am of the opinion that it would be prudent for the Principle to stop by to articulate his current plight and to present his solutions step by step in a well planned and cogent manner. Just my 2 C's...
 
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Survive not only owes their customers a refund when requested they are legally required to provide one, anything else is theft plain and simple. Period. They obviously do not have the stones to address their never ending issues rather than the standard boilerplate responses along the lines of 'Big progress just around the corner' updates to string a bunch of new orders in to keep the cycle in motion which is usually followed by some emergency or another.

Complaining here will not get their attention even though they are required to moderate their forum. The attorney here speaking for them is just hoping to keep his investment from disappearing. Good Luck.


If you want a chance to get your money back and stop the silly cycle of rob the new customer to pay the old customer, which apparently they cannot even do that right anymore, then be proactive about doing so. Credit card charge-backs will typically go by one year from the expected ship date, not the order date.

It only takes a few minutes of your time-

Link to the Idaho Attorney Generals Office Consumer Complaint Form.

http://www.ag.idaho.gov/onlineForms/consumerProtectionComplaint.htm


Link to the FTC Complaint. The FTC will sue the business when enough complaints are received.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1
 
Silver Needle said:
I totally get that. There just seem to be a lot of requests to hear from Guy, but I'm not sure what those folks are hoping to hear.
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I wouldn't mind if one of the Survive head hanchos opened a thread explaining what has caused these delays in detail and their plan for the future.

They can even close it after so no responses can be made.

The lack of communication on why these delays are happening is what really bugs the hell out of me personally.

Maybe it'll ease some pain or maybe it'll add fuel to the fire, either way, answers are better than nothing.
 
Silver Needle said:
I'm inclined to believe Lancelot. If Guy pops in to confirm the story, what difference does it make? Does it just mean more coming from him, if it's the same information?
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You're absolutely correct, this issue will not be resolved within the confines of BFs. It will however, be resolved, within the courts, beyond the public eye. I truly admire your unwavering devotion to the Survive! cause, it is sad that the turn of events has blackened the eye of good intent of so many who also wanted to have faith.
 
We have trolls here and we have honest customers with concerns. It should be easy to tell the difference. One can always ask if they have skin in the game - a number of those posting here do not, they only serve to attack the company, the most vehement do so out of an apparent sense of revenge. If the trolls make enough ruckus, the subforum will simply close like other companies' subforums have in the past. *shrug*

S!K doesn't routinely post updates here, they send out a newsletter each month and post occasional updates on Instagram and sometimes on facebook although that is rare as well. When first alchemy and mark marion had their go some months back, it was during a time when S!K wasn't on the forum and no moderator was present as the other BF mods usually leave company subforums up to the company to moderate - that seems to be the case once again. If the subforum is closed, it will be for THAT reason, the lack of presence of a company rep. The fans can go to the FB fan-group if they want, and S!K can keep working at getting orders out without worrying about the drama unfolding in an internet forum. Again, *shrug* that would be that.
 
winger51 said:
You're absolutely correct, this issue will not be resolved within the confines of BFs. It will however, be resolved, within the courts, beyond the public eye. I truly admire your unwavering devotion to the Survive! cause, it is sad that the turn of events has blackened the eye of good intent of so many who also wanted to have faith.
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I can't tell through text if the admiration is sincere or a jab at me. I'm hoping something... anything happens before courts get involved. I agree with the rest.
 
chiral.grolim said:
We have trolls here and we have honest customers with concerns. It should be easy to tell the difference. One can always ask if they have skin in the game - a number of those posting here do not, they only serve to attack the company, the most vehement do so out of an apparent sense of revenge.
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I've been wondering how these threads would go if only people with money tied up were participating.
 
Standard78 said:
I wouldn't mind if one of the Survive head hanchos opened a thread explaining what has caused these delays in detail and their plan for the future.

They can even close it after so no responses can be made.

The lack of communication on why these delays are happening is what really bugs the hell out of me personally.

Maybe it'll ease some pain or maybe it'll add fuel to the fire, either way, answers are better than nothing.
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Well Said...
 
Silver Needle said:
I've been wondering how these threads would go if only people with money tied up were participating.
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I expect they would proceed with sympathy, since those with orders are all in the same boat. There would be encouragement from many to stick it out, discouragement from some over the continued use of delivery estimates that are rarely met, fair warnings from all about the delays, and finally encouragement from all for those too concerned and seeking a refund. This can be noted in the threads that have come and gone regarding sought refunds - known S!K customers will present their experiences on difficulties getting responses, their experiences on delivery estimates, and their experiences on refund delays, while also sending their own notifications to S!K staff to try and help expedite the seeker's request. And that is it. The end.
 
I do have a horse in this race...When U ask a customer to pay a 100% up front,then U need take care of that customer!
Whatever's goin on...Each customer has a right to know!
 
chiral.grolim said:
I expect they would proceed with sympathy, since those with orders are all in the same boat. There would be encouragement from many to stick it out, discouragement from some over the continued use of delivery estimates that are rarely met, fair warnings from all about the delays, and finally encouragement from all for those too concerned and seeking a refund. This can be noted in the threads that have come and gone regarding sought refunds - known S!K customers will present their experiences on difficulties getting responses, their experiences on delivery estimates, and their experiences on refund delays, while also sending their own notifications to S!K staff to try and help expedite the seeker's request. And that is it. The end.
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Interesting. When threads were about refunds were less frequent and evidence against S!K less plentiful, many people with concerns were met with a much less friendly response than you describe above. Also, I find it interesting that you label those who post true (but not flattering) information about S!K as "trolls." If the info is not accurate, refute it. If what is being posting is true, then I don't see the poster as being a troll...
 
Maybe that building fire is actually a blessing in disguise.
Yeah it sucks because it could've made a great shop, but the money that was tied up into it can now be used for refunds, machinery for their current shop or payment for more knives to made by Millett.

$150K or more could really speed up production and get them out from under this dark cloud of failed shipping dates and negativity.

This is what I would do with that insurance money, but I could be foolish for thinking that considering I'm not in the knife biz.
 
ncrockclimb said:
Interesting. When threads were about refunds were less frequent and evidence against S!K less plentiful, many people with concerns were met with a much less friendly response than you describe above. Also, I find it interesting that you label those who post true (but not flattering) information about S!K as "trolls." If the info is not accurate, refute it. If what is being posting is true, then I don't see the poster as being a troll...
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Point out those threads for me where folk asking for help getting a refund were not met with kindness and you can call out those individuals if you like. And there is a big difference between what is "true" and what is explicitly negative "interpretation" as has already been encountered above regarding the description "asset rich and cash poor"; just as there is a difference between pointing out a company's struggles vs declaring their fate while advocating to sink the company as forcefully as possible. The latter in each instance is trolling. Interpretations can be refuted but it only leads to argument, while direct attacks cannot be refuted as there is no "truth" or "falsehood" to establish. If you tell someone, "All you can do is get out now, file a dispute, then contact an attorney, sue them, tell everyone how horrible they are!" that cannot really be refuted beyond simply stating, "You can wait for them to respond. They haven't failed to deliver a knife, just not on time, and we don't know of any occasions where they have failed to refund a customer, again just not very quickly."

You yourself asserted that the "only way" to get a refund is to create a thread here or file a CC dispute... but what evidence do you have for that? That 3 or 4 people have done so and have also been refunded? That is not enough to cause a cash-flow problem for S!K, sorry. If refunds are causing a cash-flow problem, that means they are happening without our knowing about them (as is preferred), that S!K is talking to people who aren't necessarily here on the forums and getting to their requests while others are waiting. *shrug*
 
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I have never advocated sinking the company. Please point out where I did and I will apologize.

As for "asset rich and cash poor", that has been discussed. It is semantics. The FACT is that S!K is not issuing refunds because they don't have the $s to do so.

If a moderator tells me I am trolling, then I'll stop. Until then, I will continue to stick to the facts about S!K.
 
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