POOR customer service

Discussion in 'Survive! Knives' started by Ramojung, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. Skystorm

    Skystorm

    Oct 17, 2011
    Interesting.

    So in summation;

    Survive is broke as many have alluded to, after having spent all of its various preorder, pre sales, pre this and ugly that on
    equipment, a now defunct building, (Insurance payout, how auspicious) 100k there I believe, and burned through all of its
    operating cash with never a thought to put a reserve fund in place for processing the inevitable slew of refunds that would have
    to come from stringing its customer base along for 2-3+ years on things that are always just around the corner, and have now
    been forced to secured creditors. Because no bank will touch them for good reason. And spare me the 'Were a young company'
    line. Survive isn't young, just incompetent.

    You have the gall to tell people who laid money down years ago for this scheme to 'chill out a bit'? They've processed 100k in
    refunds? Aw gee, Boo hoo. Is that the customers fault? They just need to chill out and keep accepting the lies like good little sheep?
    Survive has been afforded umpteen million free passes on this forum that a quick perusal of the GBU will show is generally not
    extended to others that have been in the same position. Slow and no refunds= Banned, Comms blackout= Banned, No redress of
    issues=Banned

    Of significant note is how the Owner never addresses anything himself. Always (always being a relative term meaning nearly
    never) the other half addressing issues knowing full well people will generally not take her to task the same as they will him, and now an attorney who isn't retained by SK. Maybe they will convince Papa Smurf to speak for them next.

    1&2. Hopefully you are made whole at some point. I hate to see hardworking people lose that kind of money.
    3. Apparently creditors can be heard over the shop equipment and numerous refund requests. Worth noting.
    4. I certainly hope you verified that yourself rather than relying on Guy's 'Word'.
    5&6. I do not take people like that seriously, although in every lie there is almost always some truth.
    7. Funny how it takes the whole shop for this 'family emergency'. Good thing they were there so the fire department didn't have to
    work.
    8. Keep changing the verbiage though, just shows intent, and their continuing incompetence.
    9. 4 weeks and counting is addressing the 'issue'. The 'issue' is that they have no money to give you and first have to sell
    something to the next poor guy in line to pay you back. How long do you think that cycle can continue? Sooner or later refund
    requests will exceed sales and then that is the end of the line.
    10. Boo.Hoo. How about the detriment of the customer that could have found something else to do besides being used as an
    interest free loan? Most people have to work for a living, there are a lot of people that got in on the initial hype and have 1k+
    orders with nothing to show for it except the usual lip service.
    Delayed refunds because you spent all the money already is an unacceptable business practice. People should be directing
    complaints to the Idaho state AG so they can suspend their business license.
    11. I believe the technical term is piss poor planning produces piss poor results. Which is why people with no experience running
    a large money operation belong being in charge of running said large money operation.
    12. Who in their right mind accepts a 'significant amount' of sub par contracted materials?
    13. The cash flow only gets improved by more sales to refund the prior sales with little to zero left over to cover current
    running costs and simultaneously fill in the hole. It is an unsustainable loop that only leads in one direction, the downward
    spiral.
    14. All the people currently being refunded should thank you then since their refunds likely will come from your loan. Which is no
    one because as per Survive policy, they take whatever money they can find and throw it in the hole they have dug while Still
    continuing to dig.


    If your waiting around on Survive to refund you and want half a chance at receiving anything you may wish to be a bit more
    proactive in seeking your due refund. Paypal has a 180 day limit on the ability to file a claim, however, when enough claims post
    they will freeze their account and force them to provide refunds to any outstanding disputes no matter the age of the dispute and
    then may or may not allow them to continue processing payments at their discretion after all accounts are settled.
    Your credit card company, if you used one, may be able to help you after that. Some of them have a pretty favorable to the
    consumer resolution process.

    There are a ton of gifted makers on this forum that can build you a knife without stringing you along for years with lies, and make
    no mistake they are lies. Even the former die hard fans are, grudgingly, seeing the light.
     
    fq55, moshow9, shinyedges and 5 others like this.
  2. ncrockclimb

    ncrockclimb

    Nov 20, 2014
    Lance, I appreciate you coming here and being open about what is going on at S!K. Seriously, thank you for that!

    I am sure that from your perspective Guy is acting ethically. I am also sure that you can form a very convincing argument to support your opinion. You are a smart guy and an attorney. However, I won't change my mind. Guy has been lying about his lead times for YEARS. That is not ethical. Period. You will not be able to convince me otherwise. There are a number of other things that Guy has done that make me doubt his trustworthiness, but I don't need to go further than the lead time issue.

    I'll let you have the last word on this. While we might disagree on S!K and Guy, I respect that you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and appreciate your transparency.
     
  3. winger51

    winger51

    296
    Feb 3, 2010
    Because an attorney, who has of yet not specified his firm or state board of standing, who is in fact nothing more than investor in the the company of Survive! Knives now places a declaration of faith in said company, now makes him worthy of credibility, makes the scenario of failure all the more ominous. How many creditors or investors have substantial losses to soon assume?
     
    BBuser likes this.
  4. winger51

    winger51

    296
    Feb 3, 2010
    Skystorm: accurately stated, lest others “credentials” try to sway discussion away from common sense and obvious deceit.
     
    sharp thoughts likes this.
  5. ncrockclimb

    ncrockclimb

    Nov 20, 2014
    This is a great post. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out.
     
    sharp thoughts likes this.
  6. lancelot

    lancelot

    200
    Nov 12, 2005
    Likewise--I appreciate your courtesy as well. As a customer who ordered a GSO 10 a long time ago, I completely understand the concerns that folks that have been strung out have, as well as the concerns of everyone else watching from the sidelines. I'm really not interested in getting into an argument with anyone. I just wanted to relay the substance of my call with Guy as I believe it's material to the discussion.
     
    Karoi, dragfree, Casinostocks and 2 others like this.
  7. gonebad395

    gonebad395 Ironworker!

    May 19, 2015
    All in all if a refund takes weeks and a customer has to use PayPal to get it with no response from survive I'd say they are broke. It seems they are waiting on presales to fund refunds. I mean you see the excuses on the GB&U from smaller providers then going silent for weeks. I hope anyone that is over the pp time line try your credit cards for a refund. This isn't good and the recent news makes ya ask.
     
    palonej likes this.
  8. grogimus

    grogimus

    Apr 27, 2012
    You seem to make that boo hoo point a lot, but you've already stated you sold off all your Survive! knives correct? You have no skin in this. You're a spectator. A spectator who only shows up to gloat and talk shit. You don't know anything about Survive!'s funding, any more than I do. The former die hard fans are unbegrudgingly still here, just tired of the same stupid yap, so we do weird stuff, like ignore forum shit and use our knives.
     
    scout1sg, Casinostocks and XtianAus like this.
  9. braillediver

    braillediver Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    As you said or you’re just trying to protect your investment since a continuing run on the bank would sink them. Currently you’re like anyone else in this thread- You’re not Guy or Ellie.

    You’re asking for another “Leap of Faith” from the “Investors” but survive! hasn’t offered 1) Any details on what will be done to improve the situation 2) What metrics will be used to show the “Investors” this improvement.

    This is the 3rd restructure attempt / improvement redo in the last year where they’ve asked people to wait patiently. But it seems like they’re still digging a hole for themselves.

    Asking for more time doesn’t really cut it anymore- Concrete, articulated steps to reduce the backlog and improve customer service is needed or the continued run on the bank is justified.


    The saddest part is seeing diehards fans disgusted and fedup. Last year you needed asbestos underwear to come in here and complain. Now they’ve been beaten down and are like- yeah we know.
     
  10. Skystorm

    Skystorm

    Oct 17, 2011
    You don't have a clue how much I have invested in this. Much more to this than just knives and not everything is able to be posted on a forum. You seem to get upset really easy, their continual laughable business practices really seem to hit a nerve with you when people comment on them. Since you are tired of the same old yap just hit ignore and maybe spend the extra time improving your leather work.
     
  11. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    I have some of Grog's sheaths and they are top notch!
     
  12. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Gold Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Sky, if you like to throw shade at other fellow service providers you must make sure that you are wearing you big boy pants because there will always be some earned criticism directed at you (let's not forget that you have your own not so illustrious thread(s) in the GB&U sub). I don't have a problem with you opining about Survive! as by now and in light of the new information, we all have a better grasp as to how badly they have messed things up by their own hands but my issue is when you mock someone's workmanship who offers a very high quality of work, all hand made, using excellent quality leather, design and finish all at the kind of price points which leads me to believe that he's more into this because of his passion for the craft rather than for pure profit motives.

    Another note to you: pay up the $75 and re-up your service provider / maker's dues before you get extra cheeky with other service providers, will ya?
     
    91bravo likes this.
  13. Skystorm

    Skystorm

    Oct 17, 2011
    Don't recall saying they weren't. There isn't a person alive, myself included, who couldn't use improvement in some way. I guess it's easy to take something out of context when your looking for it, but by all means keep diverting away form the issues.

    You have someone here now that loaned them cash and knows they are broke and cannot process refunds and continually lie to their customers that their refund will be processed shortly and you still want to wave the SK flag and scream everything is good no need to worry?
    Ok, More room in the lifeboats for everyone else.
     
  14. lancelot

    lancelot

    200
    Nov 12, 2005
    Again, for the record (and speaking as a knife enthusiast and Survive creditor--not as an attorney for anyone), I don't believe Survive is broke. I believe they are asset rich and cash poor because they crowd-funded production and refund requests kept coming in.
     
    dragfree likes this.
  15. Torch76

    Torch76

    211
    Nov 1, 2015
    Just read this thread start to finish. Understandably heated on all sides here. I'll add my story which is more of the same. 2 years wait on one knife, almost 2 on another. Spoke to Jordyn 8 weeks ago about a refund. They were promised by the end of the week. Lots of messages and emails left since. No one answering the phone or returning emails in weeks (well before the fire). Seen this a few times over the years on the forum. This is the first time I've had a couple orders with the company in question. It almost never seems to end well. I ordered for the same reasons as everyone else, they made brilliant knives for a period of time. Unfortunately, it sounds like that has come to an end. If you have a one of their knives, use it and enjoy it. They are fantastic. If you have order under 6 months old, I'd petition to get your money back asap. If you are like myself, and so many others that have past the point of no return...either hope for the best, let the BBB know or pursue legal action. All that said, I'd strongly discourage anyone from placing a new order of any kind with Survive Knives. Best of luck to all.
     
    Lozza likes this.
  16. ncrockclimb

    ncrockclimb

    Nov 20, 2014
    Lance, with respect, that is a very kind and somewhat inaccurate way to characterize the situation. This situation has nothing to do with "crowd funding," and I suspect very little to do with suppliers. The "assets" S!K has are of little value unless they are in the hands of a competent professionals in a functioning organization. Guy and S!K are neither.

    Guy mismanaged the money he got to make knives. He lied to the customer base MANY MANY times during this process and actively worked to generate more sales when he knew he would be unable to complete them in a timely manner. HE IS STILL LYING TO CUSTOMERS and claiming he will ship knives in 90 days. He has yet to come forward and address these issues, and that speaks volumes about his lack of integrity and professionalism.

    At this point, Guy has zero credibility. He has proven himself to be incompetent and untrustworthy. S!K cannot service their debt, they cannot issue refunds and they cannot fill orders in a timely manner. There is no plan to resolve the issues that S!K is facing. I don't think Guy could create or implement a plan even if he tried. Despite all the problems, S!K is continues to plod along, business as usual, taking more peoples' money.

    Lance, I don't want to argue with you. I appreciate your transparency and respect you putting your money where your mouth is. I really mean that. However, I vehemently disagree with your characterization of S!K. I also don't think we can believe anything S!K says without a comprehensive audit. You are parroting what Guy has told you, and I think that your source has no credibility.
     
    moshow9, sharp thoughts and Lozza like this.
  17. lancelot

    lancelot

    200
    Nov 12, 2005
    No worries, and I completely understand your point of view.
     
    ncrockclimb likes this.
  18. dragfree

    dragfree

    37
    Sep 6, 2015
    FYI it seems production of GSO 4 LTD has advanced to the point at which Survive! is now offering 2nds for sale on their website.

    Some of the statements in this thread have gone far beyond relating personal experience with disappointing customer service and have transgressed far into the realm of unsupported speculation and nasty character assassination. Such statements are clearly intended to provoke more customers into demanding refunds, perhaps causing irreparable harm to the company and potentially costing customers to lose their "investments."

    Whether Survive! is operating in good faith may be open to question. However, it is abundantly clear that some of their most vocal critics on this site are not acting in good faith ... and that belies whatever credibility their unsupported charges might otherwise have.

    Consequently, both as a vote of confidence in Survive! and Lance and because it looks like a sweet addition to my collection, I have just ordered a GSO 4 LTD 2nd. Sheathless, I'm sorry to report ... but perhaps that will prompt me to try my hand at leatherwork for the first time since the 1960s!
     
    CataD likes this.
  19. scout1sg

    scout1sg Gold Member Gold Member

    989
    Nov 9, 2009

    I don't believe lancelot is asking anyone to take that "leap" as you are stating, he's simply trying to provide some info which is more than what we are receiving from SK at this time. If anything he's also expressing concern and hopefully adding another prod to SKs to provide us some info.
     
    lancelot likes this.
  20. GermanyChris

    GermanyChris

    Feb 18, 2015
    Jeez this company is still a dumpster fire..Guy needs to hire a business manager and turn over day-to-day operations to that person so he can go grind knives and make handles which is obviously what he likes to do.
     
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