Save the Gimmick, Just Make this Better

I hear so much about Emerson having poor quality control, Im afraid I will get a knife with blade play or really bad centering, which is something I just couldn't accept for the $200 price point.

No worries. Excellent customer service and warranty.

Of all the knives I own, I carry a super used Horseman the most. There is a pretty sweet incomparable 'hydraulic thwack' a well worn Emerson makes.

The steel is somewhat soft but easy to sharpen, plus they are easy to fiddle with using normal tools.

I get rid of the goofy chisel grind, since I'm no lefty and use them to cut stuff.
 
D2 will soon be the next 8Cr. It's not much more expensive than 8Cr or AUS8, maybe 25-30% higher material cost? RAT 1 in AUS8 is about $25 and about $35 in D2.
 
Just because the irony (loosely used here) made me smile:

I have both a new Kershaw Blackout and a ZT 0850 on the way. I still wish I could buy a Blackout with the same materials and QC as the 0850 though.
 
I find myself disappointed sometimes by knife manufacturers. It seems sometimes that simple, practical, comfortable knives are limited to the bargain bin while knife designs that are less functional get the premium materials and quality control.

What are some bargain knives that you love, but really wish it came in a more premium version?

I have been hogging up the threads with endless photos so to make up for it I put em all in one photo (unless I forgot some examples).
I intentionally pointed them toward the left; you know like lets go back and do this again.
First up, not to put it all on Boker or on Case here is one of each. Great knives as is BUT some of us can actually use and NEED super steel in a good slip joint. M4 please. Always M4 with me these days I'm afraid . . . just get used to it. These slip joints I just love ! ! ! as far as handle and size BUT at work I can dull them in a day with one or two tasks I do most everyday at work where as my M4 can go one or even two weeks with no resharpening and still perform perfectly.
so
Slip joint makers don't believe everything you hear; don't listen to "logic" that say slip joint users don't need super steel; they don't need high end tool steel.
Right here . . . somebody with their hand up !

Next the Cold Steel Pendleton hunter in KreyEx and 3V no less ! What's not to like ? ? ? ?
From the factory the blade is over twice as thick as it needs to be (I find I like it at 2.2mm NOT 5mm (please DO keep the 3V)
and
Loose that dambed awful sheath that dulls the blades. Surely you can come up with SOMETHING else. Hey here's a thought : try leather, try plastic without all the edge dulling "impurities".
I'm not saying not to keep making some with the blades that are TOOOOOOOOOOO thick . . . there must be some use for those . . . to someone . . . some where. And the sheath that dulls the edges ? Well some people really shouldn't have a hair wittingly sharp edge . . . I guess . . . one or two crazies anyway they can have the dull edges . . . the rest of us; well . . . look into my eyes DO I LOOK HAPPY ! :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Below the Hunter is the Cold Steel Kitchen Classic paring knife = perfection ! Even in the inexpensive Krupp steel (wouldn't mind some M4 here honestly) but
did you REALLY have to discontinue that brilliant and useful and pretty handle and do what you did to that knife ? ? ? ? No you didn't SHAME ON YOU bring back this one. I will even buy a couple more !

Next one down needs no introduction. WHAT'S WRONG WITH A RITTER GRIP some observant and intelligent person exclaims ? Only that I want that exact same knife in a hollow Titanium handle. Everybody and their brother is putting out titanium handles, some of them sculpted. WHY NOT THE GRIPTILLIAN ? ? ?

Lastly . . . the Colds Steel Ti Lite IV. That's not an EDC some one says; that's for stabbing people !
It's too thick and weird to actually use for daily pocket knife chores like cutting up an apple and cutting up boxes.
Oh yeah ? !
This one's different : blade full flat ground and 1.9mm at the thickest area of the blade AT THE SPINE where it should be ! ! !
Cold Steel : offer a FFG blade that is thin like this. KEEP THE CTS-XHP alloy it is perfect just as it is.
Sure keep Mr. Stab'em if you have to but don't waste that wonderfully useful handle on a blade that sucks dirt for real use.
IMG_4893.jpg
 
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I really really want an emerson one day. These sort of reminded me of the roadhouse which is a design I absolutely love but just cant pull the trigger on. I have no problems with the materials, 154cm is one of my favorite steels and g10 is one of my favorite handle materials, but I hear so much about Emerson having poor quality control, Im afraid I will get a knife with blade play or really bad centering, which is something I just couldn't accept for the $200 price point. I have been considering starting a thread about this but have not yet due to it being a little bit of a touchy subject. I think I need to just find a good used cqc 7 on here and see what I think then go from there. Im not a knife fighter by any means but I think that MR. Emerson makes some of the most functional and "toolish/utilitarian" looking knives, which is something that I greatly appreciate because if I get one, it will be used to its full potential. (hopefully minus self defense. I carry a smith and wesson with 9 little buddies with me under my shirt everyday minus when Im in class in case that happens :) ) But i mean full potential as a tool, it will be used just as hard as my $120 manix.
sorry OP if this derails the thread a little!!!!

As someone else said, Emerson's excellent customer service will take care of you in the instance you have any issues. However, I can tell you that what people claim are "poor quality control issues" usually are actually them not realizing that that's just how Emersons are. No, the edges of the scales aren't beautifully chamfered. No, the G10 scales aren't beautifully smoothed and textured (on most of the models), no the stonewash isn't a really fine stonewash, and yes, you get lock stick when using the wave and a firm pull. These are by design (it's ok to laugh!), not quality issues. Also, Emersons are not made to be thumb-flickers, and off-center blades are usually a sign that someone loosened the pivot pin too much in an effort to get them to be flickable. Tightening the pivot pin up usually handles any blade centering issues. My advice would be to find a well-loved used example of an Em of your choice and beat on it. The secondary market brings their cost down to reasonable levels, I find.
 
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As someone else said, Emerson's excellent customer service will take care of you in the instance you have any issues. However, I can tell you that what people claim are "poor quality control issues" usually are actually them not realizing that that's just how Emersons are. No, the edges of the scales aren't beautifully chamfered. No, the G10 scales aren't beautifully smoothed and textured (on most of the models), no the stonewash isn't a really fine stonewash, and yes, you get lock stick when using the wave and a firm pull. These are by design (it's ok to laugh!), not quality issues. Also, Emersons are not made to be thumb-flickers, and off-center blades are usually a sign that someone loosened the pivot pin too much in an effort to get them to be flickable. Tightening the pivot pin up usually handles any blade centering issues. My advice would be to find a well-loved used example of an Em of your choice and beat on it. The secondary market brings their cost down to reasonable levels, I find.
:thumbsup:
 
Thanks for clarifying that for everyone.

The lockstick is something I prefer in an Emerson knife since this is a fighting knife by design first and foremost. That is what one is paying for. . You don't want slick lock with a slippery lockup.

I agree on all the other things you mentioned. I would also mention that Emerson focuses on the blade first (which are the best and why they are pimped so much) and the grips are designed for comfort and non slip. Once people understand what this knife is designed to do then these distinctions can be put to rest. Unfortunately we have many knife people just starting their journey so we have new groups that always need explaining.
 
The Kershaw Chill.

This was my first modern folder, and the beginning of my knife habit. I still love it.
My knife collection has basically been a quest to find a better Chill. Not even much better:
Same knife with 14C28N or 154cm, full flat grind and no bead blast. That's all I want.

I agree that Kershaw and CRKT in particular have spent years squandering some of their most appealing designs on knives that don't ultimately appeal to the enthusiast. I'm pleased to say that Kershaw at least has some very attractive knives coming out in 2018, and they seem to be heeding the kind of criticisms we lay out in this post.

The 7777 "Bareknuckle" has 14C28n, manual opening, KVT, and made in USA.
The Copper Natrix has D2 and... copper.

I'll probably get both, I might wait to see if the 7777 comes out in blackwash.
 
I really really want an emerson one day. These sort of reminded me of the roadhouse which is a design I absolutely love but just cant pull the trigger on. I have no problems with the materials, 154cm is one of my favorite steels and g10 is one of my favorite handle materials, but I hear so much about Emerson having poor quality control, Im afraid I will get a knife with blade play or really bad centering, which is something I just couldn't accept for the $200 price point. I have been considering starting a thread about this but have not yet due to it being a little bit of a touchy subject. I think I need to just find a good used cqc 7 on here and see what I think then go from there. Im not a knife fighter by any means but I think that MR. Emerson makes some of the most functional and "toolish/utilitarian" looking knives, which is something that I greatly appreciate because if I get one, it will be used to its full potential. (hopefully minus self defense. I carry a smith and wesson with 9 little buddies with me under my shirt everyday minus when Im in class in case that happens :) ) But i mean full potential as a tool, it will be used just as hard as my $120 manix.
sorry OP if this derails the thread a little!!!!
My own issues with Emerson "rock lock" and problems my knife friends had mostly with lock stopped me from buying another one. I like his designs very much, but paying ~$240 for such lottery in quality* is not for me. Buy only used in good condition with tested lock and good price on second market.

*I don't mind that scales or blades aren't perfectly finished, my main problem is with the lock. Maybe they should consider some adjustable stop pin like was in Benchmade 913 for example.
 
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I agree the zt waved models were weak. But I left settling for production waves a long time ago. This is a cf and a ti variants.

I'm curious to learn more about this. Could you or anyone else with the knowledge please elaborate? This is an honest question. We are talking about ZT 0620 and 0630 right? I've owned both but really have not used much of either so I don't know.
 
I'm curious to learn more about this. Could you or anyone else with the knowledge please elaborate? This is an honest question. We are talking about ZT 0620 and 0630 right? I've owned both but really have not used much of either so I don't know.
I carried an 0620cf for more than a year, I owned several of every emerson zt collab actually. I feel they fell short in blade length, and were heavy for their size. Now weight isn't a disqualifying factor for me, it's just I prefer a longer blade for the weight..most times.

Then there is the lack of a flipper, which for me is more important for accidental closure than for flipping. My preferences have shifted as I come to understand what I want from my carry folder.
 
I think a good case in point would be the ZT 0909 to make my argument. A knife DOES have to have a bling factor to be successful today. The 0909 is a great work knife, absolutely no frills. Well thought out, it has heavy enough jimping to be useful when you are wearing work gloves, the blade steel is excellent, and it has G10 handles on both sides. Frame locks are awful to use for long periods of heavy use for me (XL hands) as the overall thickness is too small, and the lock side is slippery and uncomfortable when my hands are really sweaty. The 0909 solves this with G10 both sides, and the small, but completely competent pocket clip that doesn't dig into you hand with use. I like it enough on the job site I bought a spare!

So what was the downfall of this knife? I read it here, read it on independent reviews, etc., and all the same thing: not enough flash, not enough bling. Reviewers said the jimping was too heavy and didn't look refined but more like an afterthought. The black only G10 was a turn off to some. People complained loudly about the size of the pocket clip and it works just fine, but too small for their design tastes. Few liked the hex nut on the pivot, but I though it was a genius touch to enable easy field repairs. Some thought it was too heavy and could have benefited from some aggressive milling here and there, some titanium, and anything to make it more pretty. I think the knife was one of KAI's shortest run ZTs.

It seems to me most people here are collectors. ZT now offers limited run editions with peacock colored titanium, bizarre blade shapes, "peep eye" see through pivots, carbon fiber scales on knives that were already lightweight, and pocket clips that get attention to let folks know you are carrying a ZT. The Kershaw branded line has even more collectors. Great designs, great distribution, pretty good quality and reasonable price. With new designs all the time, it makes them a perfect knife to collect. If your highest use if a knife is described by "it is one of the smoothest flippers I own" or "it flips faster than my XXXX" then a knife if more of a toy or fidget spinner than a tool. And how many here judge a knife (just look at the posts) by how well it flicks/flips...

Gimmicks sell, especially to collectors. New colors, a new feature, etc. Look how many here have multiple versions of the same knife and are proud of it!

I am disappointed that Kershaw and CRKT don't offer more steels. But I certainly think they know their markets, and seem to be doing fine without catering to my desires. But there have been some epic designs from both that have begged for better steels... just begged... and not only do I think they would have had a great seller, but would have made a knife that could be made for many years.

Why can't someone like KAI do what they did with the Blur? It started out with some steel I don't remamber. Then went to SG2. I bought one in 420hc many years ago and it was a helluva buy. There was something in between, maybe more than one steel. They now offer it in 14C28N and S30V. They have offered that knife serrated, satin finished, stone washed, and DLC coated. And too many colors of handles to count (someone here has posted all of them). All of them sell or they would be discontinued.

I agree that CRKT is the worst. They do a lot with their steel (I say steel as there is predominately only ONE) but for those of us that like a particular design, especially one that is useful (like the Carson designed hunting knives) it would be great to have an offering of better steel in this day and age.

Like many here, I am passed the baseline performing steels, even though in truth I have used them for years. But now, life for me is too short for "OK" steels unless a knife is purpose bought for a specific reason. And truthfully, with all the CNC, wire cutting, plasma cutting, heavy duty stamping, automated grinding and injection moldings I don't understand why it is so hard or expensive to make multiple offerings of the same knife with little problems. I don't get it because even though I like today's knives as work knives a great deal, in reality (skipping all the business about a knife having a soul like your favorite hunting dog) it seems to me that today's knives aren't much more than a pile of screwed together pieces that should be pretty much interchangeable within a manufactured model.

Robert

There is a thread discussing exactly why ZT 0909 does not sell well. I don't think it is primarily due to lack of bling factors. The weight at 7.0 oz is a huge negative factor. A work folding knife does not necessarily need to be so heavy. The knife was priced too high initially given the materials. And yes - the scale pattern/cutout is a bit strange and the clip is surely too small on such a large knife.
 
Agree about the Knockout, that design deserves a better steel.
I have a HOB exclusive Link in s35 and it is one hell of a work knife. Think it cost me around $75 and it is worth every penny.
Joe

I had one of the Elmax sprints and gave it away as a gift. I'd live to see another run.

Speaking of, what happened to Elmax? I love that steel and nobody seems to be using it anymore.
 
There is a thread discussing exactly why ZT 0909 does not sell well. I don't think it is primarily due to lack of bling factors. The weight at 7.0 oz is a huge negative factor. A work folding knife does not necessarily need to be so heavy. The knife was priced too high initially given the materials. And yes - the scale pattern/cutout is a bit strange and the clip is surely too small on such a large knife.

To further your point, bling and gimmick aren't the same thing.

If the 0909 had anodized blue, skeletonized liners and carboquartz scales it'd still be every bit the simple workhorse it is now, but it'd be more interesting to look at.

Now, if it had a skeletonized blade with an obnoxious compound grind and a pointless double detent THAT would be a gimmick and a cash grab.
 
I really really want an emerson one day. These sort of reminded me of the roadhouse which is a design I absolutely love but just cant pull the trigger on. I have no problems with the materials, 154cm is one of my favorite steels and g10 is one of my favorite handle materials, but I hear so much about Emerson having poor quality control, Im afraid I will get a knife with blade play or really bad centering, which is something I just couldn't accept for the $200 price point. I have been considering starting a thread about this but have not yet due to it being a little bit of a touchy subject. I think I need to just find a good used cqc 7 on here and see what I think then go from there. Im not a knife fighter by any means but I think that MR. Emerson makes some of the most functional and "toolish/utilitarian" looking knives, which is something that I greatly appreciate because if I get one, it will be used to its full potential. (hopefully minus self defense. I carry a smith and wesson with 9 little buddies with me under my shirt everyday minus when Im in class in case that happens :) ) But i mean full potential as a tool, it will be used just as hard as my $120 manix.
sorry OP if this derails the thread a little!!!!


I can tell you that if you buy an Emerson now from their website you will get a perfect knife. The older ones had the issues (most of those can be corrected by simply tightening or loosening the pivot) so I would suggest you get a new one direct from Emerson rather than but an older one off the exhange. My last ones from Emerson have been perfect- early lockup, smooth as glass and centered. But you DO want some lock stick. That is just the way Emersons should function.
 
It seems it got a bad rap. Lot of people complained about its performance on some early ZTs.
I have a bunch of knives with it and have no complaints.

I had one of the Elmax sprints and gave it away as a gift. I'd live to see another run.

Speaking of, what happened to Elmax? I love that steel and nobody seems to be using it anymore.
 
I too wish they made the Knockout with a better steel. I know they did a limited run with Elmax a few years ago and now there is a Damascus version out (minus the thumb studs FYI) but I wish they did a production version with S30V or something like the Blur. That Copper Natrix and the Natrix XL being made in china is killing me!
 
I can tell you that if you buy an Emerson now from their website you will get a perfect knife. The older ones had the issues (most of those can be corrected by simply tightening or loosening the pivot) so I would suggest you get a new one direct from Emerson rather than but an older one off the exhange. My last ones from Emerson have been perfect- early lockup, smooth as glass and centered. But you DO want some lock stick. That is just the way Emersons should function.
That great to hear! I looked at some more videos and others say the same as you about the newer knives. And about lock stick, it has never bothered me, I think it actually makes the knife feel more secure. Thanks!!!
 
That great to hear! I looked at some more videos and others say the same as you about the newer knives. And about lock stick, it has never bothered me, I think it actually makes the knife feel more secure. Thanks!!!

Agreed, and really, that's why it was designed that way, in my opinion. If you are waving the knife, it's possible you might be deploying it in a moment of critical need, so there's no time for the possibility of incomplete lock engagement. I find it rustic design in charming fashion.

Also, to be entirely on point with this thread, I'll just say that while I've spent thousands of dollars on Emersons (just bought another this morning), I would absolutely buy any model that Emerson wanted to put out with say, M390 and sculpted G10, or anodized stand-offs, things like that. I know a lot of people would. Sure, the frills don't really fit his design ethos, but they'd sell all the same.

AND! In a perfect world where mashups happened more often, one of the most amazing knives to exist (for me, anyway) would be if they did a Super Commander in M390, M4, or 20CV...with a Triad lock. They'd sell every one they made. Every one.
 
I would love a Lucas Burnley Squid made by Reate with a titanium frame, steel lockbar insert, caged bearings, and a variety of steels and handle materials (the first iteration being, say, AEB-L and natural micarta). The irritating thing, though, is that if any high-end production company were to make it, it would probably end up as an overly beefy little "tank" of a knife instead of what it's supposed to be, i.e., thin and sleek.
 
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