Save the Gimmick, Just Make this Better

I've got all sorts of different brands. the Kershaw blur is a decent knife have it in s30v. had a skyline in cf and s30v also and those are probably the most used Kershaws I have. rest are rather cheap.

zt doesn't really make work knives so even tho they are cool and great I've switched to spyderco for my users. as well as my sebenza too.

another good option is cold steel, American lawman for example.

yes it would be awesome if zt and crkt could make an equivalent knife... but they don't. they fill their neash market.

this is a good point.

we are snobs, we want the best we can get for every knife that we like.
most people aren't like this though, so that's where Kershaw and CRKT are aiming their products.
not at the knife snob who demands atleast S35VN and turns his head as soon as he hears '' assisted with teflon washers''
but at the people who just want a cool looking knife that cuts stuff and will do so for many years if not abused.

i do disagree with you on the ZT not making working knives part.
what makes you feel ZT knives don't do well in actual use, for me the're great.
 
tip down only carry also drives me up the wall...
Spyderco military comes to mind. A framelock, 4 position clip military would have made me spend the loot. But I know many of the guys here like it the way it is.
 
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I think a good case in point would be the ZT 0909 to make my argument. A knife DOES have to have a bling factor to be successful today. The 0909 is a great work knife, absolutely no frills. Well thought out, it has heavy enough jimping to be useful when you are wearing work gloves, the blade steel is excellent, and it has G10 handles on both sides. Frame locks are awful to use for long periods of heavy use for me (XL hands) as the overall thickness is too small, and the lock side is slippery and uncomfortable when my hands are really sweaty. The 0909 solves this with G10 both sides, and the small, but completely competent pocket clip that doesn't dig into you hand with use. I like it enough on the job site I bought a spare!

So what was the downfall of this knife? I read it here, read it on independent reviews, etc., and all the same thing: not enough flash, not enough bling. Reviewers said the jimping was too heavy and didn't look refined but more like an afterthought. The black only G10 was a turn off to some. People complained loudly about the size of the pocket clip and it works just fine, but too small for their design tastes. Few liked the hex nut on the pivot, but I though it was a genius touch to enable easy field repairs. Some thought it was too heavy and could have benefited from some aggressive milling here and there, some titanium, and anything to make it more pretty. I think the knife was one of KAI's shortest run ZTs.

It seems to me most people here are collectors. ZT now offers limited run editions with peacock colored titanium, bizarre blade shapes, "peep eye" see through pivots, carbon fiber scales on knives that were already lightweight, and pocket clips that get attention to let folks know you are carrying a ZT. The Kershaw branded line has even more collectors. Great designs, great distribution, pretty good quality and reasonable price. With new designs all the time, it makes them a perfect knife to collect. If your highest use if a knife is described by "it is one of the smoothest flippers I own" or "it flips faster than my XXXX" then a knife if more of a toy or fidget spinner than a tool. And how many here judge a knife (just look at the posts) by how well it flicks/flips...

Gimmicks sell, especially to collectors. New colors, a new feature, etc. Look how many here have multiple versions of the same knife and are proud of it!

I am disappointed that Kershaw and CRKT don't offer more steels. But I certainly think they know their markets, and seem to be doing fine without catering to my desires. But there have been some epic designs from both that have begged for better steels... just begged... and not only do I think they would have had a great seller, but would have made a knife that could be made for many years.

Why can't someone like KAI do what they did with the Blur? It started out with some steel I don't remamber. Then went to SG2. I bought one in 420hc many years ago and it was a helluva buy. There was something in between, maybe more than one steel. They now offer it in 14C28N and S30V. They have offered that knife serrated, satin finished, stone washed, and DLC coated. And too many colors of handles to count (someone here has posted all of them). All of them sell or they would be discontinued.

I agree that CRKT is the worst. They do a lot with their steel (I say steel as there is predominately only ONE) but for those of us that like a particular design, especially one that is useful (like the Carson designed hunting knives) it would be great to have an offering of better steel in this day and age.

Like many here, I am passed the baseline performing steels, even though in truth I have used them for years. But now, life for me is too short for "OK" steels unless a knife is purpose bought for a specific reason. And truthfully, with all the CNC, wire cutting, plasma cutting, heavy duty stamping, automated grinding and injection moldings I don't understand why it is so hard or expensive to make multiple offerings of the same knife with little problems. I don't get it because even though I like today's knives as work knives a great deal, in reality (skipping all the business about a knife having a soul like your favorite hunting dog) it seems to me that today's knives aren't much more than a pile of screwed together pieces that should be pretty much interchangeable within a manufactured model.

Robert
I think you are right that there are a lot of idiots out there who require flash on a knife, but there are still those who buy a standard basic crk sebenza or spyderco PM2.
Those who just want the best cutting tool, don't most knife companies make cutting tools for people to use ? It's not like they come in display boxes.
It would seem to me that with some companies it's like TV ratings, a lot of people may love it but if it's not who they target it gets canceled.
It would also seem that they want the most popular YouTube reviewers to like it, if a reviewer who loved simplicity got very popular it may show that simplicity can sell.
I may be wrong but I think enough people out there go for a simple cutting tool, not everyone out there is an idiot who desperately requires flash on a knife.
 
Everyone is focused on folders. I see a lot of puzzling fixed blades that if not for the bizarre and gimmicky nature of the design, I would probably be seriously considering.

E.G.... TOPS Knives..If you want to know which ones I am talking about, just randomly pick out any one model outside of their Bushcraft/Camp series.
 
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I think you are right that there are a lot of idiots out there who require flash on a knife, but there are still those who buy a standard basic crk sebenza or spyderco PM2.
Those who just want the best cutting tool, don't most knife companies make cutting tools for people to use ? It's not like they come in display boxes.
It would seem to me that with some companies it's like TV ratings, a lot of people may love it but if it's not who they target it gets canceled.
It would also seem that they want the most popular YouTube reviewers to like it, if a reviewer who loved simplicity got very popular it may show that simplicity can sell.
I may be wrong but I think enough people out there go for a simple cutting tool, not everyone out there is an idiot who desperately requires flash on a knife.

Why do they have to be idiots, instead of just people who like something different than you like?
 
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I think you are right that there are a lot of idiots out there who require flash on a knife, but there are still those who buy a standard basic crk sebenza or spyderco PM2.
Those who just want the best cutting tool, don't most knife companies make cutting tools for people to use ? It's not like they come in display boxes.
It would seem to me that with some companies it's like TV ratings, a lot of people may love it but if it's not who they target it gets canceled.
It would also seem that they want the most popular YouTube reviewers to like it, if a reviewer who loved simplicity got very popular it may show that simplicity can sell.
I may be wrong but I think enough people out there go for a simple cutting tool, not everyone out there is an idiot who desperately requires flash on a knife.

almost everyone in some way or another likes to own a functional item(s) that are also good looking, even though that doesn't impact their function.
it can be knives, cars, watches, clothes, houses, shoes, furnature, glassware, you name it.

some of them you may not understand, some of them that you do others may not understand.
that doesn't make those people (or you) idoits.


BTW, @NickShabazz often praises a simple thing done well. he's one of the, if not the most populair youtuber when it comes to knives.
 
Everyone is focused on folders. I see a lot of puzzling fixed blades that if not for the bizarre and gimmicky nature of the design, I would probably be seriously considering.

E.G.... TOPS Knives..If you want to know which ones I am talking about, just randomly pick out any one model outside of their Bushcraft/Camp series.

Well, to be fair, TOPS is definitely catering to their market. Well, perhaps not so much anymore. I haven't seen their latest revealed lineup, but I recall reading that it's more camp/woods style useful knives, and less commando SWATSEAL spec-ops battle knives now.
 
almost everyone in some way or another likes to own a functional item(s) that are also good looking, even though that doesn't impact their function.
it can be knives, cars, watches, clothes, houses, shoes, furnature, glassware, you name it.

some of them you may not understand, some of them that you do others may not understand.
that doesn't make those people (or you) idoits.


BTW, @NickShabazz often praises a simple thing done well and he's one of the, if not the most populair youtuber when it comes to knives.

Maybe idiots was a bit harsh, but I what I was referring to was someone saying " this knife isn't flashy enough for me to cut stuff with ", " it looks good, but needs to have some jewels added to it ".
 
Maybe idiots was a bit harsh, but I what I was referring to was someone saying " this knife isn't flashy enough for me to cut stuff with ", " it looks good, but needs to have some jewels added to it ".
I haven't been here as long as many guys, I have never seen anyone say those words.
 
I get it, some people want a monochromatic, dull appearance, that doesn't have any appeal. But why on God's earth is someone having a knife that looks good and functional a bad thing? I don't know anyone on this forum who has jewels in their knife or refuses to use a knife because it's jewel less.

It's either no frills plain or decked out in jewels huh? No middle ground?
 
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At the end of the day, the truth is that we, the entire population of knife users, are spoiled for choice. There's a multitude of knives at every price point and for every user. From that perspective, Kershaw, CRKT, et al. fill their market niche admirably.

However, it's obvious that we, actual knife enthusiasts, would want more and better from the knives we see and use. It seems to me that we should naturally, as enthusiasts, want it all (full functionality, great fit and finish, terrific appearance and quality materials) within the limits of our budgets.
 
i do disagree with you on the ZT not making working knives part.
what makes you feel ZT knives don't do well in actual use, for me the're great
blade geometry. they are too thick behind the edge.
 
Well, to be fair, TOPS is definitely catering to their market. Well, perhaps not so much anymore. I haven't seen their latest revealed lineup, but I recall reading that it's more camp/woods style useful knives, and less commando SWATSEAL spec-ops battle knives now.


TOPS invested too much into the tacticool craze. Hopefully they are moving a bit back towards a mainstream design philosophy as their bushcraft and scandi line is really good. If they can expand on this they can reap some better profits. But IMO, their brand is synonymous with goofy 'tactical' designs in a lot of people's mind and this causes these potential customers to overlook or ignore their bushcraft line.
 
TOPS invested too much into the tacticool craze. Hopefully they are moving a bit back towards a mainstream design philosophy as their bushcraft and scandi line is really good. If they can expand on this they can reap some better profits. But IMO, their brand is synonymous with goofy 'tactical' designs in a lot of people's mind and this causes these potential customers to overlook or ignore their bushcraft line.

You aren't wrong!
 
blade geometry. they are too thick behind the edge.
I've seen you say this many times. What angle would you suggest for the average joe that scrapes his edge against God knows what?
 
And just so we're clear, I reprofile my knves to around 30 degrees inclusive. I completely get the difference in cutting ability. That said, I witness the non knife people all the time.. it's HORRIFIC.
blade geometry. they are too thick behind the edge.
 
blade geometry. they are too thick behind the edge.

I generally agree (e.g. the 0801 log splitting wedge, er, knife) but there are exceptions. I carry the 0770cf semi-regularly and while it doesn't cut like a laser it also doesn't cut like an axe either.

I've seen you say this many times. What angle would you suggest for the average joe that scrapes his edge against God knows what?

It's how thin the blade is behind the edge--and for deep cuts how thin it is in totality--that has the biggest effect on performance, assuming edges are sharpened similarly when comparing two knives. It's not rocket science or magic, take your thickest tacticool folder and sharpen it similar to a small Opinel and see which cuts better for a variety of tasks. Outside of splitting wood or prying, the flimsy little Opinel will win in a landslide . . .

Full disclosure: I often carry too-thick folding brick knives, including possibly the ultimate stupidity--a Medford. I don't pretend thick knives excel at being knives, though.
 
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