(SOLVED, happy with outcome) Need to call out a knife maker (Ken Coats) for his very poor response

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This thread is another example of why my level of sickness will never go beyond high end mass-production knives.

Worst case scenario I toss a knife in trash and buy another one at 0.0001% the value of my pay packet..... no harm, no fouls.
 
CataD said:
The maker didn't even bother to show himself here... he used intermediaries to defend him.
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I can't speak for anyone else who may have spoken to Ken but my intention was to facilitate communication, information and hopefully resolution
 
TOMBSTONE said:
I can't speak for anyone else who may have spoken to Ken but my intention was to facilitate communication, information and hopefully resolution
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And I appreciate that. And, from what I can tell, the OP also appreciated you! My post was not directed at you in any way, but to the maker, who, apparently would have a right to 'call out the OP'. I don't see how the maker would have any right to call the OP out, he refused to show himself here and has not proved that the OP was wrong in any of his statements.
Cheers!
 
CataD said:
The maker didn't even bother to show himself here... he used intermediaries to defend him.
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The maker rarely shows up on here at all.

The OP, an over 21 year old Australian male (folks storied for their rugged independence) was begging strangers on the internet to call and solve the problem instead of doing it himself. That's a starter red flag to me. I don't like to jump to conclusions but I sure feel like I"m being led to water.

Further if would seem to be that the horrible knife in the photos didn't come from the maker.

A better title might be "If you're hoping to talk to Ken Coats on your computer don't try; just pick up the phone".
 
Danke42 said:
The maker rarely shows up on here at all.

The OP, an over 21 year old Australian male (folks storied for their rugged independence) was begging strangers on the internet to call and solve the problem instead of doing it himself. That's a starter red flag to me. I don't like to jump to conclusions but I sure feel like I"m being led to water.

Further if would seem to be that the horrible knife in the photos didn't come from the maker.

A better title might be "If you're hoping to talk to Ken Coats on your computer don't try; just pick up the phone".
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I have no idea who the OP and maker are, and I don't really care much. Why does it matter where the OP is from?! :(

It looks to me that OP tried really hard to 'solve the problem himself', but the maker disappeared on him for months, quote from OP in the other thread:
'I sent it off on the 28th of August 2019, and followed up with Ken on both the 24th of October 2019, and the 6th of January 2020, but I haven't received any reply's from Ken.
I'm beginning to worry that I have lost my 21st birthday knife..'

As per OP, the knife DID come from the maker, quote from OP in the first post in the thread:
'But, a couple of days ago, I got a package from Ken!'

Last, this is exactly what GBU is for! For people, that have exhausted their options, to come and try to get help - obviously, it was the correct step for OP.upload_2020-1-31_19-23-0.png
 
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CataD said:
I don't see how the maker would have any right to call the OP out, he refused to show himself here and has not proved that the OP was wrong in any of his statements.
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Ffs, this isn't a court of law, it's a privately owned internet forum. Mr Coats is under no obligation to "show himself" here. If OP had posted this same post over on reddit or aapk or instagram or facebook or any of thousands of other places he could have done this, Mr Coats wouldn't have been obligated to show himself there either.

I'm assuming that, until Tombstone called him up and told him about it, Mr Coats had no idea this post existed.
 
Norcaldude said:
Ffs, this isn't a court of law, it's a privately owned internet forum. Mr Coats is under no obligation to "show himself" here. If OP had posted this same post over on reddit or aapk or instagram or facebook or any of thousands of other places he could have done this, Mr Coats wouldn't have been obligated to show himself there either.

I'm assuming that, until Tombstone called him up and told him about it, Mr Coats had no idea this post existed.
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Who said anything about this being a court of law? o_O
I only used the word refused because, even after he was informed about this thread, he didn't want to come here: 'I got the impression he really doesn't want to interact with the OP any further, so I don't foresee Ken posting in this thread'

And, I only mentioned his refusal to come here in the context that he would have the right to 'call out the OP'.

Anyways, it seems that this will (hopefully) be resolved, which is the whole point of this thread!

Have a good night/day everyone!
 
Everyone just step away from the keyboard.....This to shall pass.

Sheeeeesh you know things are definitely going to sh!t when a bayo collecting hermit with houlahound as a handle has to be the adult.
 
Ryan Sumner said:
Hey fellas really sorry for not following up! As I've said, been fairly sick and also quite busy at work, though I agree I should've been far more prompt in following up and will cop that criticism.
(It also probably didn't help that I was just feeling bummed and not wanting to make time and deal with this while stressed out, but again I should've been more onto it.)
Thanks Last Rodeo for defending me there, I remember having some great interactions in the past, I do love the traditional forum.
Also thanks so much Tombstone for reaching out to Ken as well, that is much appreciated! I'm sure it helped us work through this.

I just checked my inbox and saw that Ken has responded, saying he didn't like that I was "telling lies" about him, and that I should "Be careful with the lies" and that my knife hadn't been broken before (It 100% has but I'm willing to accept that things get forgotten in the mix, as it has been a few years since the first break)
I just gave Ken a call and after a bit of back and forward I ended up giving him my address to send the replacement knife he made out to me, along with the pieces of my original knife, which I was happy about as they're sentimental to me.

Also weirdly enough, he had no idea what I meant when I mentioned the orange knife he sent me, asking me whether it had his mark on it or not.
I said that it was definitely marked 'Coats' but I suggested that it was probably just a mix up somewhere along the line. (Address's may have been mixed up or something, I honestly have no idea)
He said he'll send the package out soon so I should get it in a few weeks, so I'll be sure to update you all then.

I'm glad we could move forward in this matter, it wasn't my intention to slander Ken in any way and I'm glad we're going to get to a resolution soon in this bizarre turn of events.
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Yeah dude, that was not cool to disappear. You started this! Hopefully as you age into a gentleman, you use this as a learning experience on how not to show best practice on a business transaction on any types of goods and products you purchase.
 
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sorry my quote is in the quote. I’m on my cell. I’ll correct it when I’m on my desktop .
 
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Norcaldude said:
Ffs, this isn't a court of law, it's a privately owned internet forum. Mr Coats is under no obligation to "show himself" here. If OP had posted this same post over on reddit or aapk or instagram or facebook or any of thousands of other places he could have done this, Mr Coats wouldn't have been obligated to show himself there either.

I'm assuming that, until Tombstone called him up and told him about it, Mr Coats had no idea this post existed.
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You are absolutely correct. I guess many were considering that Ken could have reached out as a good gesture as the one to step up. He had no obligation. But a court of law and public scrutiny are entirely different. Free to speak or not to speak is just that, individual choice.
 
All good points, I agree with you. It seems that both parties could do a bit more to sort this out. Custom knives should mean unparalleled customer service. I can't really speak to this scenario because there are so many unknowns. I am personally suprised the maker hasn't spoken up here to tell his side. This seems like a bit of a mess and I guess my point is if these issues can be solved in private it is best. Maybe that wasn't an option here I don't know for sure. At the end of the day if this all gets sorted out the OP will get a knife while the maker has this permanent BAD thread with his name attached to it. I would guess neither party is completely innocent but again without facts its hard to speak with any certainty. I think its human nature to see a conflict and choose a side to sympathize with. I have certainly been guilty of that before and even in this thread. The truth as I see it is we don't really know enough to pass a judgment either way. I am not a fan of calling people out in public as a means of solving anything. I think its a common occurrence today and I would like to see less of it. Maybe it was the only way in this case, but hopefully not. I think if these two sorted this put between each other they would both feel better about the other. A thread like this generates a certain amount of animosity that is unavoidable. I hope everyone learns from this and we all get a little better as a community. I will follow this thread but I don't think I'll have much more to add. I am not taking any sides nor hoping for anyone to be wrong. I would love to see both parties resolve this, clear up any uncertainties about this and move on while maintaining good reputations.
 



Edited from above
I understand that you’re not defending the workmanship. But I guess some of us would like to know Why the workmanship or is it his workmanship or someone messed with it other than Ken. I think both parties here have questionable reputations after this. The OP in the fact that he started this thread and did not follow up, whether sick, depressed, or in denial. Not a good excuse. And Mr. Ken for no explanation. Maybe it’s a screaming economy, and he is jammed with work and feels this can’t affect his bottom line. But what about when this economy slows and knifemaking ramps down? If Ken came to offer explanations and was contrite, then when we head into a recession and some had read that Ken was a class act on this thread, then maybe an economic downturn would not hit him as hard because he would have more new customers by reading positive comments about him on here, just because he chose to handle things the right way early on. Who wants to deal with this headache, even if it was resolved in the end? That’s why we as customers pay a premium for custom knives, for the craftsmanship and the service after the sale. If not l, then we go to a GEC and get pretty darn good quality for the price. See where I’m going with this? Hopefully you as as a craftsman would see this as a business model 180 degrees from yours.[/QUOTE]
 
Hey guys just want to clear a couple of things up.

It was never my intention to do a hit piece on Ken to stir up drama. The reason I posted this was because after I send him an email letting him know I sent the knife off to be repaired, I didn't hear from him for months, (It was suggested a while back that he was having trouble with his email)
until I got the knife in question in the mail from Ken. As I stated, I am willing to drop it, and treat it as "one of those things" Just an accident or mix-up. (And yes it's definitely from him, the return address and his name was written on it as well as Kens stamp on the knife.)

I just re-read his recent email (The first since I sent off the knife August last year) And saw that he said he'd like me to post it for people to see.

mxLjvCR.png



As you can see, when I created this thread I let Ken know about it, and hoped he would read it.
It was never my intention to bash a creator behind his back, I have only hoped for resolution from the start, as my emails weren't being replied to.

I always strive for honesty in life, so I have to say I resent being called a Liar, but all I want in this case is for both parties to come away happy so I felt the best course of action was to not get into an argument, but to go ahead with his plan to send a replacement and to treat it as a fresh start. I think that Ken probably genuinely thought I was lying about my knife's spring breaking twice, though I still don't have an explanation about the orange one he sent.

After the replacement gets to me I will of course post about it here as honestly as I can, and amend and update this thread accordingly.
 
Also, can you let me know whether the screenshot showed up properly in my last comment? I just want to make sure, after I screwed up screenshots earlier in this thread.
 
Assuming everything here is truthful, what a chaotic thread... OP sends a broken knife back for repair and receives a different knife from what we can only assume is the maker (it came from the makers address) though the maker has no recollection of sending it? But when OP mentions being disappointed in what he received the makers first response was "Yeah, well I'm extremely disappointed..." If Ken didn't send him that knife wouldn't that have been the first line of the email?

"Hey Ken, I'm really disappointed in the knife I received."
"Oh, that's weird Ryan, I didn't send you any knife, I'm still working on yours."

If there was a mix up somehow and Ken shipped Ryan another persons knife by mistake that only drags this further in circles.

I have no skin in this game because I'm not familiar with Ken or his work (just enjoy a good read about things like this so I opened the thread) but hopefully there will be a resolution that will satisfy both maker and customer.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the full story no matter what the resolution ends up being unless Ken comes to tell his side of things.
 
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