Steels descriptions in Jay Fisher website

@strategy9 [So just for clarification sake; do mean to tell me that in "your book"....]
Metallurgy is a thing and knifemaking is a thing. Not dissing the metallurgists in any way and again not dissing Larrin either. I read his posts and learn stuff. However, I'd rather listen to a knifemaker when it comes to how a steel reacts to grinding, heating, forging and why he thinks a certain steel is well suited to making knives. Guess I'm more sensitive to the hands on experience.
 
According to Jay Fisher, anything he use are all the best and anything he doesn't ain't worth a shit...
 
After a quick glance Jay fisher doesn't cite very much... So the claim that it's been "proven over and over again in scientific studies" doesn't hold any weight with me. When you look at Larrin's work he actually backs up his claims with real data. Just sayin' - just cause someone puts it on the internet doesn't mean it's true...:D
 
herisson said:
@strategy9 [So just for clarification sake; do mean to tell me that in "your book"....]
Metallurgy is a thing and knifemaking is a thing. Not dissing the metallurgists in any way and again not dissing Larrin either. I read his posts and learn stuff. However, I'd rather listen to a knifemaker when it comes to how a steel reacts to grinding, heating, forging and why he thinks a certain steel is well suited to making knives. Guess I'm more sensitive to the hands on experience.
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But it's the metallurgists who develop all the said steels to provide the properties, characteristics, and behaviors that the maker observes. Metallurgists predict these things based on science and then execute and then test and verify well before the maker ever has a steel in their hands.

A maker with many years of experience can surely tell us how he/she can do this or that and get the relative this or that reaction. If they tell that to a steel metallurgist, there's a very, very good chance, they can tell the maker why they're observing those things.

Metallurgy is an amazing science and borders on voodoo sometimes. And steel is a very specific discipline within the field.
 
By the way, it seems quite obvious that a maker will be strongly biased in his statements towards a steel he knows well and masters well along the whole knifemaking process. Like Jay Fischer with 440C... I don't take that as steel science (like 440C is superior to M390) but definitely as a hint he may be good with that steel. A knife in 440C by Jay Fischer could be worth a look (the only thing that caught my eye, years ago, on his site was a set of cleaver and chef knives. Gorgeous ! Strictly eye candy cause the prices burned my eyes).
 
Larrin has been making knives for a long time. Well before he became a metallurgist. I don't think he does it for a living now but I would not devalue his input because of that. There are some pretty well known knifemakers that value his willingness to share that knowledge .

joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Larrin has been making knives for a long time. Well before he became a metallurgist. I don't think he does it for a living now but I would not devalue his input because of that. There are some pretty well known knifemakers that value his willingness to share that knowledge .

joe
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It's true I made my first knives in about 2006. I'm not a knifemaker though, I only make ugly test knives now.
 
his mindset seems to be "the more words I write, the more I should charge for my knives!". I don't think many operators would splurge 5 grand on one of his "tactical absolute best knife ever bet your life on it...", but I guess some people do buy all that prose. They seem well made and finished fantasy designs, but not to my taste, either aesthetically or pocket-wise. I do stock removal knives now and then as a hobby, farm out the HT to Peter's, and all I can tell is which steels are easier to grind and finish according to my skills, which is an ever learning process. I trust the metallurgists for the deep technical stuff.
 
double post
 
I think a lot about purchasing custom knives can be about connecting with the maker as much as it is about the knives. In this case you can learn a lot about him on his website. For some that will drive them to buy and to others it will mean a pass.
 
"I'm not a knifemaker though, I only make ugly test knives now."

That is the sort I tend to try to buy. If a knife is too pretty it is more difficult for me to use it as hard as I should. My last Phil Wilson knife I asked for the least fancy knife he was comfortable sending out of his shop. It didn't cut any less well . In fact it seemed to be scaring the ropes into cutting themselves. :)

Joe
 
Beauty is subjective.

I prefer simple, no nonsense things. "Ugly test knives" would probs be more than good to me. I don't care if they're shiny, how does the handle look or anything. I only want it to be functional for tasks I need to do.
 
craytab said:
This is the guy who said non-stainless wasn't safe for food: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...fe-blade-is-not-food-safe-jay-fisher.1689908/

There's actually been quite a few threads about him over the years if you do a search.
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This guy has to be some serious fanboy of stainless steel, especially 440...

He calls carbon steel inferior while he's using 440! I mean I just can't understand.
And it's also miracle that I'm alive then, since I used carbon steel knives on my food more than once. And I'm also living on village, I ate animals and chickens that were beheaded by *gasp* carbon steel axe!
I'm grilling my food on... non stainless iron BBQ!

This guy is talking nonsense. And his blades are... "Counterterrorist Knife" LMAO - I lost it at that one. Then there is the "Duhovni Ratnik" or "Spiritual Warrior" knife representing "Croatian Culture".
As a Croatian, I know that whoever ordered that knife has to be a hardcore nationalist, actually a Nazi deep down in his heart. It has some lettering on Glagolitic script (ancient Croatian) on the blade, which is fine... but it also says "Bog i Hrvati" on the handle which is what Croatian Nazi army Ustaše during WWII liked to shout out. Then you have crosses everywhere, and also another cross like symbol that Croatian fachists liked to use during WWII. And then, icing on the cake - the first field of the chess board is white instead of red. And anyone living in Croatia will tell you right away - that's a Nazi symbol. NDH state (Croatian state during WWII while fighting for Hitler) used to have that chessboard on their flag, first colour being white. And Croatian neo nazis just love to use that chessboard with first white field.

So, not only he makes cringey knives, he actually made a NAZI knife LOL. In Croatia you'd 100% get arrested if they saw you going anywhere with that thing. It's like making a knife with swastica and "Sieg Heil" written on it for a guy in Germany.

I also find it ironic, a Croatian Nazi guy somewhere wanted a custom knife, saw his page and fell for "Best knives in the world" story and probs some other BS he wrote along that. He didn't think twice or even bothered to check twice, he just decided to immediatley order a custom made, "best Nazi knife in the world" made out of 440 stainless (because who needs super steels, right?), and he most likley paid a hefty price for it (considering the engravings).
Then this guy saw the money and was just like "let's do it". Most likley without even checking the meaning of words and symbols his customer asked him to made (I don't want to believe that any custom knife maker would make Nazi knives on purpose). He also just probs simply fell for the story of his customer that he's just a patriot and these symbols are patriotic. Croatian language isn't very known, he probs didn't bother to translate and then seek for meaning so I get it.

So, a Nazi guy ends up with 440 stainless knife for a hefty price and he can't go with it anywhere without risking ending up in prison.
And a knife maker made a Nazi knife which will make every Croat, Slovenian, Serb, Bosnian and God knows which other nation members cringe when they see it on his page. And he seems to be proud on that one LOL.
 
Smiling said:
This guy has to be some serious fanboy of stainless steel, especially 440...

He calls carbon steel inferior while he's using 440! I mean I just can't understand.
And it's also miracle that I'm alive then, since I used carbon steel knives on my food more than once. And I'm also living on village, I ate animals and chickens that were beheaded by *gasp* carbon steel axe!
I'm grilling my food on... non stainless iron BBQ!

This guy is talking nonsense. And his blades are... "Counterterrorist Knife" LMAO - I lost it at that one. Then there is the "Duhovni Ratnik" or "Spiritual Warrior" knife representing "Croatian Culture".
As a Croatian, I know that whoever ordered that knife has to be a hardcore nationalist, actually a Nazi deep down in his heart. It has some lettering on Glagolitic script (ancient Croatian) on the blade, which is fine... but it also says "Bog i Hrvati" on the handle which is what Croatian Nazi army Ustaše during WWII liked to shout out. Then you have crosses everywhere, and also another cross like symbol that Croatian fachists liked to use during WWII. And then, icing on the cake - the first field of the chess board is white instead of red. And anyone living in Croatia will tell you right away - that's a Nazi symbol. NDH state (Croatian state during WWII while fighting for Hitler) used to have that chessboard on their flag, first colour being white. And Croatian neo nazis just love to use that chessboard with first white field.

So, not only he makes cringey knives, he actually made a NAZI knife LOL. In Croatia you'd 100% get arrested if they saw you going anywhere with that thing. It's like making a knife with swastica and "Sieg Heil" written on it for a guy in Germany.

I also find it ironic, a Croatian Nazi guy somewhere wanted a custom knife, saw his page and fell for "Best knives in the world" story and probs some other BS he wrote along that. He didn't think twice or even bothered to check twice, he just decided to immediatley order a custom made, "best Nazi knife in the world" made out of 440 stainless (because who needs super steels, right?), and he most likley paid a hefty price for it (considering the engravings).
Then this guy saw the money and was just like "let's do it". Most likley without even checking the meaning of words and symbols his customer asked him to made (I don't want to believe that any custom knife maker would make Nazi knives on purpose). He also just probs simply fell for the story of his customer that he's just a patriot and these symbols are patriotic. Croatian language isn't very known, he probs didn't bother to translate and then seek for meaning so I get it.

So, a Nazi guy ends up with 440 stainless knife for a hefty price and he can't go with it anywhere without risking ending up in prison.
And a knife maker made a Nazi knife which will make every Croat, Slovenian, Serb, Bosnian and God knows which other nation members cringe when they see it on his page. And he seems to be proud on that one LOL.
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This garbage of commentary is written by a gifted communist born in 1996 ..... of course you know everything with 23 years of life experience (you live with your parents?)
 
chumaman said:
This garbage of commentary is written by a gifted communist born in 1996 ..... of course you know everything with 23 years of life experience (you live with your parents?)
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You went out of your way to see my age? :D
I guess I struck a nerve...

All totalitarian regimes are wrong, including communism. My situation in life is far from gifted but I'm not here to justify or talk about myself.
I also try to steer clear from politics as much as I can, since I have more important things in life to care about.

And facts are the facts. Those things do represent fachism and you would have an amazing time if police caught you with something like that.
It is legal to carry a knife as long as it's concealed and you aren't threat to others with it, and you have a use for it. Having even Recon Tanto on my tool belt as construction worker was just fine to everyone for example.
At other hand I'd never go to a night club carrying a knife.
Good luck justifying a knife with Nazi writings on it.

Now, I don't want to argue, since I'd hate this thread to go in offtopic, and OP would dislike that too.

Fact is that the knife maker (Jay Fisher) in this case most likley lacked information about these symbols.
And whoever ordered that knife most definitley sympathises Fachism big time. Why would someone sypathise such totalitarian regimes is beyond me though. But in this case I find it hilarious.
 
There is nothing wrong with a 440c knife. A lot of custom makers used it, and it is still just fine for many uses. I in fact when I see a knife in 440c, in small to medium size, I would not hesitate to own and use one. As long as the maker knows his heat treatment protocol, and the knife is appropriate for the steel.

It has received a negative connotation from so many "440" series mystery junk steels being used and passed off.


I have knives in ATS-34, 440c, and D2, and find them all to be lovely steels.

But, as has been said, miss information is not good.

It does not help the industry, or the individual maker to badmouth steels for personal reasons (ie, I don't use it, so it is garbage).

CPM3v is an amazing steel. Many many advancements in steel have really pushed the boundaries in edge retention and strength.
 
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