1. Click here to enter the drawing for your chance to win an Ontario Knives Spec Plus SP8 Machete Survival Knife & Ka-Bar Dozier Folding Hunter, , Bladeforums.com swag or memberships!

    Be sure to read the rules before entering, then help us decide next week's giveaway by hitting the poll in that thread! Entries close at midnight, Saturday Sept 7!

    Once the entries close, we'll live stream the drawing on Sunday, Sept 8 at 5PM Eastern. Tune in to our YouTube channel TheRealBladeForums for a chance to win bonus prizes!

    Questions? Comments? Post in the discussion thread here

The "Ask Nathan a question" thread

Discussion in 'Carothers Performance Knives' started by JustinFournier, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    Yeah we want to do another run of the UF. No solid plans yet but I want to make it interesting.
     
  2. argyle1812

    argyle1812 Gold Member Gold Member

    522
    Mar 6, 2016
    Hopefully a steel thats somewhat rust resistant please!
     
  3. adamlau

    adamlau

    Oct 13, 2002
    Schmoo would make it interesting. Though I would pass on a UF with or without schmoo for a CPK kitchen tool...
     
  4. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    ,
    I will take his UF with Double edge;):thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  5. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Nathan, what is your sentiment about a Bowie knife and also your desire, if any, to do such a pattern with your name on it?

    I ask this of you not to cause any unintended controversy or propose it as a loaded question, but because I see some of our great folks on here (one whose name starts with T and ends in 6) cheering on for one. At the expense of sounding sacrilegious, I do not like bowies!!! :eek:

    I totally understand that they are an American Classic and that if done correctly, they are great puncturing knives but having tangible experience with your Shiv, I doubt that any bowie can match the Shiv, although those two are completely different horses designed for different courses, metaphorically speaking! If nothing else, I have noticed your penchant for making knives with a drop point blade shape as opposed to something with an upsweep!

    Again, I get brainfarts once in a while (OK, most of the time!) so I thought that I ask because I have been tempted in the past to buy some other knives but hesitated precisely because they were bowies and some were just sweeping up too acutely for my tastes!
     
    JustinFournier likes this.
  6. betzner

    betzner CenCal Coast Platinum Member

    Jan 23, 2007
    I, too, dislike Bowies. To begin with, it's nearly impossible for anyone to describe precisely what a Bowie is and what it looks like. A decent discussion of this subject always ends in disagreement because there is no pure Bowie example to which to refer. And if such a discussion is to start, pls let it be in a newly-started thread rather than this thread, for obvious reasons.
     
    JustinFournier and Standard78 like this.
  7. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Bob, let me further qualify what I had said in my post # 1265:

    Strictly speaking, if we are talking a Bowie as a "fighter" I can learn to dig that pattern as I like to collect fighters but if created in the spirit of a general purpose knife, I find that blade shape too awkward for those purposes. I have seen some very great looking renditions of the Bowie with the handle, the guard and all the bells & whistles which look exquisite but I still would kill for your type of Dagger :p

    P.S. again I proposed it in this ANAQ thread because I have come to find out that Nathan is an avid student (GPA 4.0+++) of history when it comes to his passion & craft!
     
  8. abbydaddy

    abbydaddy Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 14, 2014
    I know this is the "Ask Nathan A Question" thread, so I hope this doesn't get seen as further derailing the thread, but I have to say that as much as I do love Bowies, I am not sure that they are super appropriate for CPK.

    In my mind, the Bowie is best as a traditional fancy knife; an American short sword if you will. They are a knife ideal for ornamentation and traditional materials and manufacturing techniques.

    In my mind CPK is linked to uniquely excellent application of modern materials and manufacturing techniques married to careful functionally oriented design.

    I am sure that if Nathan decided to tackle a Bowie it would be something cool. It just isn't a product that I particularly find exciting or a good fit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
    betzner, Casinostocks and argyle1812 like this.
  9. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    A Bowie is an anachronism. An ill defined concept of a knife without real engineering or optimization. First of all, what is a bowie? The ABS style bowie looks and feels impressive at a knife show and feels "light and lively" due to a low moment of inertia from distal taper and a stick tang and feels like a "fighter" when you pick it up and wave it around. I'm probably going to ruffle some feathers here, but in my opinion some of these don't really work that great as knives, and I'll tell you why. It isn't relevant in a modern context (it's not very good as a modern fighter) and it isn't useful or historically accurate in a classical context (that ain't a bowie). It isn't a good stabber, and it isn't a good chopper (the point and the balance are wrong) and as a fighter many of them would perform poorly in real combat.

    A classic fighter would be more of a stabbing weapon. These don't feel "light and lively". They have a higher moment of inertia from a reinforced point, a pommel and even weighted quillons and were more about straight line stabbing, resisting deflection and defeating various forms of armor or heavy clothing. They weren't light and they weren't lively and didn't strike you as weightless when you picked them up, they had stout points, weighted pommels and were made to kill, not wave around. Often they were a defensive left hand weapon of opportunity while the right hand held something with reach.

    A modern fighter also has a reinforced point and is also a secondary weapon. The demands of modern combat dictate something that can pry in addition to stab, and the primary weapon is a firearm. Again they're stout and one of these modern bowies would loose their dainty little point pretty quick. Modern knife fighting principals where no one has a sword (this is the 21st century, no one has a sword) more resembles a fist fight with grappling than fencing. While a modern fighter still needs to work in a fencing grip with the blade held in the hand at an angle to project reach in line with the arm (not 90 degrees to the arm like most of these bowies are designed to be held, what are they stabbing their own face?) modern fighters also need to work in a reverse grip with the edge out and shielding the arm. When an opponent catches or dodges a punch they get the blade. Stabbing with a blade held in this grip (a motion like an ice pick) requires a handle shape and length where the thumb can go over the end of the grip to prevent the hand from sliding over the blade. The placement of any guards, ramps and grip swells need to align with a hand in this position. A modern "bowie" fails miserably here.

    Then there is the historical aspect. Even though a bowie knife is not optimized as a fighter compared to an engineered weapon, there is the nostalgic value. Except there isn't, that's false nostalgia, the real actual bowie knife was more of a big kitchen knife.

    So, lets see: yes it is a knife and can be used as one, but compared to modern engineered alternatives it's not good at stabbing, chopping, cutting and fighting and the clip point is a hindrance skinning large game and it isn't historically meaningful, but it's pretty good at a snap cut, it looks cool and it feels "light and lively" in the hand at knife shows. I'm sorry, I don't mean to disparage those who make or collect these kinds of knives, but they're not very good in my opinion and there is no way I'm ever going to produce them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  10. JustinFournier

    JustinFournier Gold Member Gold Member

    May 7, 2012
    Thanks for your opinion on this Nathan. I always saw the Bowie as some kind of poorly deformed and interpreted up-swept Pesh-Kabz inspired monstrosity that was only popular because of patriotism.

    But I'm a feral sex muppet, what the hell do I know.
     
  11. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    ^ and don't you ever forget that tagline!
     
    Standard78 likes this.
  12. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    You're a feral sex muppet?

    I don't even...
     
    Standard78, Mike157 and betzner like this.
  13. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    I bestowed him with that one a while back on a whim! LMK if you should ever get tired of "Evil Genius" and I'll come up with something for you too :)

    However in reality and at the expense of coming across as a real psychopath sycophant, the more I study your old sales thread, the old WIP threads plus all your thoughtful explanations on ANAQ thread, the more I really appreciate that tagline for you ;)
     
    Standard78 likes this.
  14. betzner

    betzner CenCal Coast Platinum Member

    Jan 23, 2007
    {Nathan} "I'm sorry, I don't mean to disparage those who make or collect these kinds of knives, but they're pretty dumb in my opinion and there is no way I'm ever going to produce them."


    Nathan,

    All I can say is - thank god there won't be any runs of Bowies to interrupt the REAL work. So happy you expressed you points so well and so directly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
    Mike157 and Standard78 like this.
  15. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Hopefully some of those upcoming plans manifest themselves in offering customized MC & customized FK which should make 2018 even a more happier year :thumbsup:
     
  16. Lorien

    Lorien Moderator Moderator

    Dec 5, 2005
    lol Nate:D
     
  17. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Nathan, How do you really feel about Bowie's:eek::oops:
    military-mixed_signal-arrow-archery-archers-bows-kmhn834_low.jpg
     
  18. JustinFournier

    JustinFournier Gold Member Gold Member

    May 7, 2012
    We all have talents. Mat’s Is obviously nick names and acronyms.

    He’s so good, I don’t even know half of them.
     
  19. Organic556

    Organic556 Gold Member Gold Member

    964
    Aug 30, 2015
    Not sure if this has been answered yet. What’s coming up next on the Friday sales?
     
  20. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    The next Friday sale will be HDFK. That sale will be ready on the 24th, but that's the day after thanksgiving so we're going to push it back a week to December 1st. We should be done shipping the HDFK pre-order by then so that will be the last of them until we re-visit the pattern again next year.

    The next sale after that would be the new EDC2 on the 15th.

    After that would probably be something on the 29th. With the HDFK preorder shipped and being into the EDC 2 we might be looking at the next pre-order to open the 29th.
     

Share This Page