The Members Discussion Thread

[Ernest DuBois]

Very nice, I love lashed constructions.

 

[Fmont]

I've seen quite a few of those fish wheels on a show I watched, I think it was called live before zero? I know there's a bunch of shows like that, most of them are just too over produced to watch.

 

[jake pogg]

I know there's a bunch of shows like that

Yes,Fmont,and practically every one of those is embarrassing to most of us who live here......Don't watch those,they're entirely misleading.
It's the money they offer,and money is not easy to come by off the road system...
Stan,from that video up above,has been a victim of all that for years...He's actually quite a bit more interesting in real life...(the video was filmed about 180 miles upstream of us here,they like their wheels wide and squat there...Nowadays Stan runs a test-wheel for State Dept.of Fish&Game,yet a bit higher up Tanana R.).

Slowly but surely all this is going ,times are changing.This past summer the last of the commercial wheel fisheries died,in the village of Kaltag,about 90 miles down.
I used to have a photo of one of the last of the bent and lashed 20-footers built,that i got to help on,but can't find it...(darn it,it was an impressive contraption...)...It's all fading away

 

[Fmont]

More people, more impact, fewer resources. The track we're on isn't exactly heartening!

 

[jake pogg]

One of my ridiculous plans for a future insanity has been to use the fishwheel mechanically,to drive a large fan or bellows,to run a small bloomery furnace on the beach.

There's a number of places such as this: https://imgur.com/ONMd2Cx

where so-called "bog-iron ore"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron) can be obtained,and smelted in a basic "reduction"-type bloomery furnace.
Charcoal can be readily obtained from driftwood,and the rest is clay,some Goethite or the like,and Lots of labor

The native people that i dwell amongst are of the Athabaskan language group,in their past the only people of North America to've forged metals.

There's a growing momentum locally to invest into a permanent annual even for youths of a "culture camp" sort,and although historically these people forged copper(that was obtained in ingot form,something that iron doesn't really do),still i think that it'd be an appropriate educational device...Kinda integrating the several diverse parts of historical heritage shared by mos here...should be Cool,anyway

 

[junkenstien]

What talking about corps of engineers digging up designs?Are these more designs stolen from cultures that didnt even know they had them or just like most hateing done on american history anger cuz its so much better than thiers.If you like water contraption history check out train bridges over the Mississippi river,still some in 24 hour operation well over 100 years old.

 

[Fmont]

One of my ridiculous plans for a future insanity has been to use the fishwheel mechanically,to drive a large fan or bellows,to run a small bloomery furnace on the beach.

There's a number of places such as this: https://imgur.com/ONMd2Cx

where so-called "bog-iron ore"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron) can be obtained,and smelted in a basic "reduction"-type bloomery furnace.
Charcoal can be readily obtained from driftwood,and the rest is clay,some Goethite or the like,and Lots of labor

The native people that i dwell amongst are of the Athabaskan language group,in their past the only people of North America to've forged metals.

There's a growing momentum locally to invest into a permanent annual even for youths of a "culture camp" sort,and although historically these people forged copper(that was obtained in ingot form,something that iron doesn't really do),still i think that it'd be an appropriate educational device...Kinda integrating the several diverse parts of historical heritage shared by mos here...should be Cool,anyway

That sounds incredible on all counts!

I've done work with youths before, it's really gratifying. You could perhaps use the forging aspect of the cultural camp to create a traditional item to be won by a participant. Or perhaps there would be enough time for the interested kids to make something (copper?) of cultural importance that they could have as a keepsake of the event and heritage! A sort of new rite of passage in the making

 

[jake pogg]

Or perhaps there would be enough time for the interested kids to make something (copper?) of cultural importance that they could have as a keepsake of the event and heritage!

Yes,exactly!
I've showed you guys this before:https://imgur.com/cDNsu5Z
It's an Athabaskan Man's dagger(all phallic and in it's sharpening and very essence not a knife at all;ulu-like Woman's knives are all rounded and pregnant-looking,they were used to process Everything...Woman's work,cutting things up...yes,things were rather sexist in the past here.
It is originally a native copper design("native" in this case is a geological term meaning this metal occurs naturally in metallic,or ingot,form).
But i've no access to native copper(it came from hundreds of miles higher up,the very headwaters of White,Copper,and Tanana rivers,a magical place...).
I did smelt a bunch of plumbing pipe into an ingot once,and it was stupid-hard...(stupidity was all mine,i forgot just how high a melting point Cu has...).And then i had all sorts of crystallization problems,not being a skilled coppersmith...So maybe i'd better stick with Fe...there was extensive trade,and quite possibly a piece of bloomery iron may've wondered by...From Ainu on Hokkaido,or further west...

But,Fmont,i don't know if you caught the biological nature of bog-iron:
"Iron is carried to bogs in low-pH, low-dissolved oxygen iron-bearing groundwater that reaches the surface through springs, along structures of fractures, or where ground water intersects surface flows.[3] The iron in the water is then oxidized by dissolved oxygen or, through enzyme catalysis by iron bacteria (e.g. Thiobacillus ferrooxidans and Th. thiooxidans) that concentrate the iron as part of their life processes.[4]"

So,i can use some help from an aquatic entomologist!
(do entomologists do bacteria?...it won't matter,kids won't know the difference,i'd bet!

 

[Square_peg]

There's talk of bringing fish wheels back to the Columbia in a limited way. The thought is that a manned fishwheel can separate and release wild stock that gillnets kill.

 

[jake pogg]

Yes,glad that they're considering it,it's used in Alaska very constructively.
For years many locations required wheels to be equipped with live-boxes.
Those are a royal pain,because the fish are totally alive( and kicking hard),but that's the point.
Another,even more stringent technique used downriver of us was to man it 24/7(must be what you mean),and use a selector board.

 

[Fmont]

Yes,exactly!
I've showed you guys this before:https://imgur.com/cDNsu5Z
It's an Athabaskan Man's dagger(all phallic and in it's sharpening and very essence not a knife at all;ulu-like Woman's knives are all rounded and pregnant-looking,they were used to process Everything...Woman's work,cutting things up...yes,things were rather sexist in the past here.
It is originally a native copper design("native" in this case is a geological term meaning this metal occurs naturally in metallic,or ingot,form).
But i've no access to native copper(it came from hundreds of miles higher up,the very headwaters of White,Copper,and Tanana rivers,a magical place...).
I did smelt a bunch of plumbing pipe into an ingot once,and it was stupid-hard...(stupidity was all mine,i forgot just how high a melting point Cu has...).And then i had all sorts of crystallization problems,not being a skilled coppersmith...So maybe i'd better stick with Fe...there was extensive trade,and quite possibly a piece of bloomery iron may've wondered by...From Ainu on Hokkaido,or further west...

But,Fmont,i don't know if you caught the biological nature of bog-iron:
"Iron is carried to bogs in low-pH, low-dissolved oxygen iron-bearing groundwater that reaches the surface through springs, along structures of fractures, or where ground water intersects surface flows.[3] The iron in the water is then oxidized by dissolved oxygen or, through enzyme catalysis by iron bacteria (e.g. Thiobacillus ferrooxidans and Th. thiooxidans) that concentrate the iron as part of their life processes.[4]"

So,i can use some help from an aquatic entomologist!
(do entomologists do bacteria?...it won't matter,kids won't know the difference,i'd bet!

That is absolutely fantastic. And yes, they do! Bacteria goes hand in hand with many an entomologist's investigations! In fact, the microbe diet of aquatic insects is of particular importance for some aquatic entomologists. You see, the leaves that fall into streams and rivers aren't generally eaten directly by insects, but rather the "microbial peanut butter" that grows on them. The process keeps our waterways from clogging up! They also scrape biofilm off rocks and logs, and shred leaf detritus that is further reduced by filter feeding insects. There is no understating how important insects are!

 

[Miller '72]

There is no understating how important insects are!

So true!
Their ecosystems are ground zero for just about all of everything.
So vital to our streams and rivers to remain healthy, the forest floor clean up crews...an entire world largely unknown and working behind the scenes.
Entomology does not get the spot light it deserves.



Dont get me started on mans development and the total disruption of an areas tidal flow and direct results thereafter

 

[Mack]

I'm not really sure where to post this so I figured this is as good as any.
Thank you gentlemen for putting up with my questions and educating me on the tools that I am loving and learning. You guys are great.

 

[garry3]

So true!
Their ecosystems are ground zero for just about all of everything.
So vital to our streams and rivers to remain healthy, the forest floor clean up crews...an entire world largely unknown and working behind the scenes.
Entomology does not get the spot light it deserves.



Dont get me started on mans development and the total disruption of an areas tidal flow and direct results thereafter

Triggered! Go ahead Miller, we all do it at some point.

 

[Yankee Josh]

I had some of my nicest etches laid out next to one another on my counter last evening. And it just seemed like the Bigelow & Dowse etch just didn't pop enough for my liking. Here's a before pic;

So I looked at my B&D catalogue and regarding the finish it reads:
"Jet black finish, polished bit, gold filled."
So I mixed up some gold. What do you guys think?

I thought it was a tad darker. Here's a comparison with some still on the plate.

Anyway I think I like it! Curious as to all of your opinions!
Here's a few lined up;

And then a couple in daylight this morning. Photos at night are always tricky...

I respect all of your opinions so I wanted to see what you guys thought. Thanks!

 

[junkenstien]

Sweet I like it.Just when I think you couldn’t show your love for Michigan’s anymore you do something awesome like this.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

Josh, You are making us all envious with your line up ... too pretty to use though.

 

[Miller '72]

I had some of my nicest etches laid out next to one another on my counter last evening. And it just seemed like the Bigelow & Dowse etch just didn't pop enough for my liking. Here's a before pic;

So I looked at my B&D catalogue and regarding the finish it reads:
"Jet black finish, polished bit, gold filled."
So I mixed up some gold. What do you guys think?

I thought it was a tad darker. Here's a comparison with some still on the plate.

Anyway I think I like it! Curious as to all of your opinions!
Here's a few lined up;

And then a couple in daylight this morning. Photos at night are always tricky...

I respect all of your opinions so I wanted to see what you guys thought. Thanks!

Josh. Outstanding. Your Bigelow turned out smashing great, just like i would want it to look like if it were mine.
I have such a beat, worn Highest Quality Bigelow connie and to see the crisp, clear embossing on your Michigan makes me desire an upgrade now more than ever lol!!

I tell ya, between the blueing work you and ITVD have done...i may need to experiment myself.

Excellent ahead of the curve work man

Sweet I like it.Just when I think you couldn’t show your love for Michigan’s anymore you do something awesome like this.

LOL!! Right!? A beautiful Michigan collection has sprung up when you were not looking lol!
A seriously beautiful Michigan collection...and if your going to collect Michigans, you are on your game and off to a superb start

 

[Yankee Josh]

Thanks guys! Very nice comments! I thought it was an improvement. I don't ever want to just put any color in there. Definitely needs to be what they used in the factory.
It's so ironic that the Michigan pattern is my LEAST favorite! I know you guys already know this but it's so funny that all the best etches i have are Michigans. Even my OVB(s) are Michigans!

Lol. I've been making some improvements to the black raven as well. I'm not finished with it but I'll post up some before and afters once I git-r-done! That B&D really makes me happy. $20 I paid for that!
Its come a long way though...

 

[Fmont]

Wow, that's outstanding man! Great work, both with the filling and the restore, I love it.