Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

Ramrodmb said:
Just one question. Have you handled any LionSteel products?
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Do the radiussed edges disappear when you pick one up? :)
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In hoping these were early attempts and not what is planned to go out the door. I expect the cutlers need to get this experience of the job before they can produce quality. Ive been a skilled tradesmen of various trades my whole life as well as training people in these trades. People have to put in the work with their hands before they can put out a quality.

The concern is if this less than ideal quality is allowed to go out the door. And then if people buy the product trying to support them, the company will think the quality is good enough. Another issue is even if you have skilled employees, if no one keeps them in check, they get sloppy. Ive seen enough talented individuals slack off and then rush to push out a subpar product.
 
Camillus said:
Ramrodmb said:
Just one question. Have you handled any LionSteel products?
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Camillus said:
Do the radiussed edges disappear when you pick one up? :)
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I'll take that as a NO. Thanks.

Instead of side stepping your question with another question, I'll answer yours directly. Yes, they disappear in hand. :)
Just a slightly different method of manufacturing. To suggest they do it to hide flaws is just silly.



Back to the Schatt and Morgan topic; I wish them all the best and would like to see them succeed. I do think they have a ways to go and some kinks to work out, but I will keep pulling for them.:thumbsup:
 
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You are correct, ‘disguise’ is the wrong word. I meant ‘to avoid having to manufacture or finish some parts of a knife that are difficult to get right’.
 
Camillus said:
You are correct, ‘disguise’ is the wrong word. I meant ‘to avoid having to manufacture or finish some parts of a knife that are difficult to get right’.
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There are two different methods of manufacture being employed......

One is building a knife with semi finished components and then finishing the components as an assembled knife...

The other is using finished components and building the knife..... This leaves little or no finishing after assembly.....

Obviously they have different visuals, but I don't see any sacrifice in quality .......
 
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sitflyer said:
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I look at these and the set of the blades into the knife looks to be all over the place, look at how differently the pulls are spaced from the handle from knife to knife...no way I will take a chance on these until they work out the bugs and get the knives at least consistently built...each knife looks like a one off compared to the others present, even the shields look to have some wide variances. Nope, not me, these don't look ready for prime time...
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I agree that there do appear to be a number of differences. The bottom row 2nd from the left (buffalo horn?) the match strike pull looks like a strange angle.

But some of these differences in appearance may be exaggerated by the fact that there are many knives arranged in a format that they look very different from their closest neighbour. If these were all red jigged bone would the differences be as apparent? If there was only two knives pictured would it seem as obvious or off putting to the beholder.

Different colours, different textures, not aligned evenly, terry cloth background etc.

Perhaps the presentation as well as the construction need some polish. But maybe as some one said earlier they are ugly ducklings and they could still be a fine knife if priced properly.

Pot stirred.....in a just conversational way.

,,,Mike in Canada
 
Drifting off topic, but there isn't much left to discuss regarding the S&M sample pics so.....
What exactly is the problem with radiused edges? Seriously, I'd like to know why radiused edges are a bad thing. Thanks.
 
Not the thread for this discussion, but..

The lionsteel knives (and other italian brands) are traditional style knives manufactured using modern methods. Knife making process has evolved quite a bit and theres nothing wrong with some companies that utilize modern techniques. If the traditional techniques were superior, the modern would have never developed.
Though we are here because we love hand crafted traditional knives. But that doesnt discount the advantages to modern knives.
 
This thread is why i check in less and less frequently. Somebody is literally trying to single handedly rescue a well loved brand from the grave while others continue shoveling dirt right back on top. And then poo poo a different company who pioneered a way to break beyond the limitations of traditional knife pinning and hafting construction to produce a very respectable modern version of traditional knife patterns. If this is how we spend our energy as knife enthusiasts, we must have it pretty good.
 
jrawk said:
Somebody is literally trying to single handedly rescue a well loved brand from the grave while others continue shoveling dirt right back on top. .
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What is it you expect people here to talk about? I didn't sneak into the new S&M facility and take pictures of unfinished product and then post the images to make them look bad. These are photos provided by the company to show off their product. We talk about knives here. I said those pictures show knives that are not going to command the sort of prices that S&M knives have gotten in recent years and if the new S&M wants to sell their knives at the same price as the old S&M they will have to do better than the knives shown in the pictures.
 
jrawk said:
This thread is why i check in less and less frequently. Somebody is literally trying to single handedly rescue a well loved brand from the grave while others continue shoveling dirt right back on top. And then poo poo a different company who pioneered a way to break beyond the limitations of traditional knife pinning and hafting construction to produce a very respectable modern version of traditional knife patterns. If this is how we spend our energy as knife enthusiasts, we must have it pretty good.
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I disagree with your characterisation in so far as it applies to some of my posts.

For every negative comment there is a positive one. All the posters in this thread are interested well wishers. And I think most of us know that when we rail against a drop in quality or some other issue, its due to a passion and enthusiasm for traditional cutlery.
 
I, for one, like the radiused edges on the Italian modern traditionals - in fact, I have referenced them in my past reviews. I think that it is a design element that suits the knife wholly. If they weren't radiused, the entire knife would look and feel different which is not something that I desire in those particular knives.

Different design elements, different manufacturing methods, etc. It has nothing to do with "hiding" flaws, mistakes, et al.

That said, I expect a different process and different results when it comes to the more "hand-made" nature of cutlery firms like GEC and the arisen S&M.
 
Duper said:
I agree that there do appear to be a number of differences. The bottom row 2nd from the left (buffalo horn?) the match strike pull looks like a strange angle.

But some of these differences in appearance may be exaggerated by the fact that there are many knives arranged in a format that they look very different from their closest neighbour. If these were all red jigged bone would the differences be as apparent? If there was only two knives pictured would it seem as obvious or off putting to the beholder.

Different colours, different textures, not aligned evenly, terry cloth background etc.

Perhaps the presentation as well as the construction need some polish. But maybe as some one said earlier they are ugly ducklings and they could still be a fine knife if priced properly.

Pot stirred.....in a just conversational way.

,,,Mike in Canada
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I'm hoping for the best for this resurrection of S&M, I've got a few Queen made ones and am quite fond of them. I await some impressions from early adopters to see what they are like in hand, and yes, ugly ducklings can be special, and these pics aren't the best for showing them off. But I do still think that these look like individually made knives, in essence, each one is a one off, and not production models, with no uniformity about them. That said, I'm not trying to stir any pot, just sharing my thoughts on what has been shared via photos of what they are up to.
 
My imprrssion is that the photos we're seeing were released by S&M, right? If this is how they want to present themselves publicly, it's not unfair for people to discuss what they are seeing. I would love for this company to succeed - I want more American-made slipjoints out there.

But the knives in those photos look pretty terrible. There are plenty of knives that look good in photos, but have blatant fit-and-finish problems that become obvious once they are in hand. If they look this bad in photos, I can't believe that they will somehow win me over in person.

Here's hopin' that this is just poorly considered marketing, and that the production knives come out great.

-Tyson
 
mbkr said:
Drifting off topic, but there isn't much left to discuss regarding the S&M sample pics so.....
What exactly is the problem with radiused edges? Seriously, I'd like to know why radiused edges are a bad thing. Thanks.
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They are ugly and not "traditional" just like screws..."Don't buy no ugly knife"
 
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