Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

Ugly is entirely in the eye of the beholder and there's plenty of 'traditional' knives I find ugly ;) And as we all should know, screws have been seen on Traditional knives from the early c20th or possibly earlier.

The Italian companies Lionsteel, Viper and Fox produce superbly finished knives using modern methods inspired by 'traditional' aesthetics-they happen to be serious user knives as well plus very good in hand feel.

The relaunched Schatt & Morgan company needs to be able to produce a consistently good quality knife like say GEC but offer stainless as well, to be able to field patterns that perhaps have not been seen for a while and to be reliable in supply and quality. True, they were forced to relocate to an area where there may not be skilled workforce and they will be using old and possibly temperamental machinery which could be obstacles. Nor can they just rest on the reputation of the name either, because that got a little tarnished anyway. Nevertheless, if they overcome this then the future could be exciting.

I regard these released pictures as WIP and prototype testers, they do not at this stage look right to my eye. The notion that we can't criticise, discuss, or consider these products - and only to be 'positive' about it all seems to negate the whole idea of a Forum, which is to air different points of view not foster a chorus ;)

If they start producing consistently good, desirable knives, then who isn't going to be pleased by that?:cool::thumbsup:
 
Will Power said:
<snip> The notion that we can't criticise, discuss, or consider these products - and only to be 'positive' about it all seems to negate the whole idea of a Forum, which is to air different points of view not foster a chorus ;)

If they start producing consistently good, desirable knives, then who isn't going to be pleased by that?:cool::thumbsup:
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IMHO precisely this. Well written post Will!
 
Can't really judge a knife until you hold & use it. Until that occurs, it's all hot air. Negative comments on knives one's never seen, held and used are petty and unfair. Buy one and then tell us how bad it is :)
 
brownshoe said:
Can't really judge a knife until you hold & use it. Until that occurs, it's all hot air. Negative comments on knives one's never seen, held and used are petty and unfair. Buy one and then tell us how bad it is :)
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That's ridiculous. We're only entitled to an opinion if we've spent the money to be allowed to see if said money was wasted? Especially now in the age of online purchasing without the ability to hold it in the hand prior to handing over money? Oh and how will the F&F issues already apparent even from bad photos suddenly disappear when in hand?

It's 2021. If a company wants to compete they have to do it in the modern environment or sink. If a company wants support for their beta products they are welcome to use Kickstarter. Otherwise they will be competing against the rest of the market and will be judged relative to it. If it means an old name sinks, it was in a bad way before it sank last time. Personally I'd far prefer to judge the item based on it's objective values rather than a historical name and country of manufacture covering for substandard manufacture. Queen already died once. If it can't be resurrected better than before, it's better that it RIP.
 
brownshoe said:
Can't really judge a knife until you hold & use it. Until that occurs, it's all hot air. Negative comments on knives one's never seen, held and used are petty and unfair. Buy one and then tell us how bad it is :)
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But when people here have commented unfavorably on Case knives that they have purchased and are holding in their hands, you have dismissed their very right to complain. :)

If a company tells me how great they are, using words or pictures, I'm going to take that with a grain of salt. But when a company tells me how crappy they are, using words or pictures, I will usually believe them. And I won't give them my money to confirm that, yes indeed, this product really is as bad as the pictures.

-Tyson
 
Pomsbz said:
... Personally I'd far prefer to judge the item based on it's objective values rather than a historical name and country of manufacture covering for substandard manufacture...
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Glad to see we are in agreement, can't judge a knife until you see it, hold it and use it.
 
brownshoe said:
Glad to see we are in agreement, can't judge a knife until you see it, hold it and use it.
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I'll agree that if it looks good in the pics and specs that doesn't mean that it will actually cut well, that the heat treat is good, that the grind is acceptable or the geometry sufficient. You can only experience what a steel is like in the real world by using it (learnt that the hard way which is why I gave up on a m390 edc and now carry a sak). All of the above can only be judged from actual use. However, If I can see significant faults in online pictures it's usually only going to get worse from there. Add into the mix a new endeavour with the name and equipment of a company which went bust due to unreliability and I will reserve my judgement until the company can prove consistent competence and will not assume that they can achieve it until they show that they can.
 
brownshoe said:
They are ugly and not "traditional" just like screws..."Don't buy no ugly knife"
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Lionsteel makes plenty of beautiful traditional patterned knives. Vintage knives have been posted in the past in response to statements like yours showing that old knives occasionally came with screws also. It would help if, when posting an opinion, you made it clear that it was just your opinion rather than attempting to imply that your statement is objective. Thanks! :)
 
The issue of modernized traditional knives has been flogged to death, but sometimes I can't help myself... ;)
It's not the screws in the handle slabs that take it out of the traditional category (for me at least).
It's the screwed-on bolsters and the adjustable pivots that (in my mind) take them out of the truly traditional category.
Seems to me the old examples still had pinned construction and just used the screws to attach the slabs, but I could be wrong.
Usual Disclaimer: I find these knives to be excellent and I own a few, but I don't call them traditional... of course Your Mileage May Vary
 
sitflyer said:
Ny7cDF2.png


I look at these and the set of the blades into the knife looks to be all over the place, look at how differently the pulls are spaced from the handle from knife to knife...no way I will take a chance on these until they work out the bugs and get the knives at least consistently built...each knife looks like a one off compared to the others present, even the shields look to have some wide variances. Nope, not me, these don't look ready for prime time...
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IMO, a couple of these look "OK" (red jigged bone), but most of them look bad. Some look really, really bad (top row, last two on right and bottom row, far right).

They need to realize that at the end of the day, the knives they offer for sale ARE their advertisement. They are far better off scrapping and taking the hit on any poorly made knives than letting them see the light of day, never mind get out into the market and tarnish whatever rep they are trying to establish. Personally, I would have never even let anyone SEE some of the knives in that picture, never mind allowing someone to photograph them and allow that picture to circulate on ALGore's Amazing Interwebs. Instead of fostering enthusiam and excitement, just look at what these pictures are doing for/to them?

Seems like bad judgment to me, and not a good omen.

Hope I'm wrong as I own a few S&M and Queen knives and was sad to see them fold. Hope like hell they really can be resurrected. But IMO, this is a misstep.
 
A new knife company having some issues with prototypes, wow big surprise there, that is sarcasim if anyone was wondering.

I am going to wait until they start putting product out for the public to buy. Anything else is just plain stupid.
 
qch said:
I'm not sure why you bothered to write that I shouldn't take your snarky comment the wrong way. What I specifically said was "The knives I handled, examined and photographed looked as though they should command a premium price.". Specifically that is the two small Barlows in the pictures with tan-colored backgrounds as well as several others, photos of which were not published for space and variety reasons. I did not handle or see firsthand the knives in the provided photos (those with gray cloth background.
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I missed your comment before.
Yeah I know what you said and after welcoming you, I asked you a simple question in the nicest way I could. If you thought that 'snarky' then you obviously carry a large chip around on your shoulder. Hopefully you won't be representing the company further. Good luck to you.
 
sitflyer said:
Ny7cDF2.png


I look at these and the set of the blades into the knife looks to be all over the place, look at how differently the pulls are spaced from the handle from knife to knife...no way I will take a chance on these until they work out the bugs and get the knives at least consistently built...each knife looks like a one off compared to the others present, even the shields look to have some wide variances. Nope, not me, these don't look ready for prime time...
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Second Row 2nd from left; (Buffalo Horn?) What's with the partial Easy Open notch by the bolster?
Second Row, last on right (Mammoth tooth or bone?) ... looks like an escargot or Conch foot ... is that thing even the same pattern as all the rest?

I wish the new S&M much success. I really do.

However, my sub $10 ~ $13 Rough Ryder and sub $20 Marbles look better than these. Forgive me, but these look sloppy, and assembled by someone who don't give a da__ at best. If these passed QC.... I'd pass at imported Imperial prices. (they cost less than an Opinel Number 5)
Heck, the made in Pakistan and India Frost and under $5.oo no name gas station/truck stop knife shaped objects look better than these things.
Sorry, but using exotic handle materials like Mastodon, various Horns, Stag, etc. does not raise the quality of a poorly made knife. At least not in my book.
 
Easyrider said:
A new knife company having some issues with prototypes, wow big surprise there, that is sarcasim if anyone was wondering.

I am going to wait until they start putting product out for the public to buy. Anything else is just plain stupid.
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Back "in the day" salesman's samples were prototypes. The prototypes were of the highest quality; not the lowest.
Would Fred at Fred and Bertha Mae's General Store out somewhere in the pre Internet wild west prairies of Wisconsin, Ohio, Nebraska, Montana, Mini Soda, Wyoming, or Iowa buy something like those to stock in his and Bertha Mae's General Store?
 
afishhunter said:
Back "in the day" salesman's samples were prototypes. The prototypes were of the highest quality; not the lowest.
Would Fred at Fred and Bertha Mae's General Store out somewhere in the pre Internet wild west prairies of Wisconsin, Ohio, Nebraska, Montana, Mini Soda, Wyoming, or Iowa buy something like those to stock in his and Bertha Mae's General Store?
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That is true of brick and mortar stores but in the age of the internet it is very likely that initially all sales will be web based. No salespeople going around with prototypes. I will judge them by the photos used of each model when they are available for sale. Those should be the near perfect examples.
 
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