Tradional Group Buy

For this knife I think the best choices would be 3V, 4V, M4, and A2 as the front runners with 10V and possible S90V next.

Cost in descending order would be S90V, 10V, M4, 4V, 3V, A2

All these steels can be had in 3/32" or 1/8" thicknesses.

Lets figure out which steel you guys would prefer and which thickness as well.

If you have another steel that that you have any questions about or if you would like to know more about any of the ones listed just let me know.
I will do my best to answer your questions.

Thanks for your participation.
 
I'd pick 3/32" 3V out of that list. I'd consider A2, depends on factors.

I know Latrobe makes a nice A2 and I know it can reach 61-62 HRC.
 
I know 3V can be ground thin and take acute angles. Rod Garcia grinds his SBT at 12.5 degrees per side. Don't quote me because I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Koster grinds his Scandi Bush knives at that angle as well.
 
Big Chris said:
For this knife I think the best choices would be 3V, 4V, M4, and A2 as the front runners with 10V and possible S90V next.

Cost in descending order would be S90V, 10V, M4, 4V, 3V, A2.
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May I ask two question Chris, regarding these lists
1. Specifically for a thin Nessmuk, what are cons and pros of these steels you mentioned?
2. speaking of costs, if an S90V Muk costs, say, 100% how much cheaper would be the one based on A2?

Thanks
 
My first vote would be 10V in 1/8", but I could live with 3V for sure. 3V has been good to be

Also really really curious about S90V too!
 
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Which steel takes a finer edge, 3V or A2?

My re-sharpening time with A2 is limited, I wasn't paying close attention to that detail. Anyone have any insight?
 
I am not really interested in A2 either...not really what Big Chris is known for. 3V on the other hand has always been a favorite.
 
ma tumba said:
May I ask two question Chris, regarding these lists
1. Specifically for a thin Nessmuk, what are cons and pros of these steels you mentioned?
2. speaking of costs, if an S90V Muk costs, say, 100% how much cheaper would be the one based on A2?

Thanks
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S90V and 10V will be expensive and more difficult to maintain for some in the field. I am envisioning them (10V and S90V) pushing $300 or slightly more.
A2 was mentioned as an option to lower cost and be easier to field sharpen. Depending on the cost of American Steel I figured I could get the cost of an A2 version to around $225 to $240.
As for attributes of the steels; 3V is just tough as nails, it can be ground thin, holds the edge very well, and is rather easy to care for. 4V will hold an edge longer than 3V, is not quite as tough (really being pick here), and will rust much easier if not cared for. M4, IMO, will take the sharpest edge of the steels I have listed, it holds a good edge a little longer than 4V but loses out slightly in toughness, and will also need a little extra care to avoid rusting. 10V and S90V are tops in edge holding for the money. There are steels that will hold an edge longer but the cost of materials and consumables diminishes the returns, again IMO. I have never made a knife in S90V or 10V and beat on it so I can not comment first hand on that. I can say that I have split small wood with both and carved knots and hardwood without any chipping or edge holding issues. They are very good steels that get the job done.


alfred mcdougal said:
Which steel takes a finer edge, 3V or A2?

My re-sharpening time with A2 is limited, I wasn't paying close attention to that detail. Anyone have any insight?
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I can not answer that. I have made only 1 knife from A2 and that was several years ago. I did use it a lot as a machinist though for tool and die work.


Salt said:
1/8" 3V

What grind? Flat, saber, scandi?
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Grind would definitely be flat. Height, I am assuming would be high to almost full flat.
 
Just curious, You guys that are wanting 3V, why not 4V?
 
I want 4V! I don't think most people have read reviews of 4V from you, Chris. One of the attributes of owning a Big Chris knife is having steels that most won't deal with. From the reviews I have seen, 4V is the best all around steel for toughness and edge holding. I don't know of any other knife maker using it. 4V for me please!
 
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My surface thought on the differencr between 3v and 4v would be corrosion. From what I've seen 3v hasn't had a problem with it. I don't sharpen my knives in the field so ease of sharpening doesn't matter much for me.

Honestly if two different steels were offered, there's a good chance I'd buy one of each.

Honestly, the price difference isn't much if a factor for me either. My big Chris in S90V really is something else. I've had it a year and I haven't sharpened it yet
 
Personally, I'd sacrifice a little bit of edge holding in exchange for easier maintenance and better corrosion resistance. Most of the chromium in 3V is free, which is what helps it resist corrosion so well.

3V is all about its basket of properties. It's nearly foolproof. What more can a user ask for? On top of that, the maker has a lot of experience with it, IE he probably knows a few time-in-trade tweeks in order to squeeze a bit more performance out of a bar.
 
4V, 3V or M4 would be fine by me.
I've got one of your knives in each steel and have been really impressed with 4V as far as edge retention is concerned. I don't do much camping, so toughness is not an issue for me. I clean game more than anything else. So, a sharper edge for a longer time suits my needs. I've cleaned one deer with 4V and never worried about having to touch it up. I've only got the one EDC in 3V and have only used it lightly around the yard, so far, I like it. Since the M4 knife is a kitchen knife, I can't comment other than it slices superbly. Don't think it would make a good outdoor knife.
So, if it's a matter of splitting hairs on all around performance, going with what the majority wants will work.
 
Chris,

I would love to see what you could do with A2. It's a great steel that is plenty tough and easier to maintain in the field. Chris I think with your heat treat, grinds and edges that you put on your knives, I believe you could bring the performance of A2 to a whole new level. With A2 I think 1/8" would be an ideal thickness for this steel because you could still retain the toughness of it. With that being said what I really like about 3V is that it be ground even thinner than A2 and still be a very tough steel. If you decide to go with 3V, I would love to have it in 3/32". I have a factory Kephart in 3/32" 3V and it is a slicing beast and I have no doubt that if I had to use it in a hard situation it wouldn't let me down. A Nessmuk in 3V with your magic touch with make the perfect knife for me to carry when I go moose hunting. It would offer me the toughness I want in a thinner blade, plus lightsaber slicing performance and still be fairly easy to maintain in the field.

I don't have any knives in 4V but I would be willing to try it.

On a final note it would be really cool that if all the group buy traditional knives end up being the same steel then I could have a 3 knife matching set from you which would truly be out of the universe. If that doesn't happen so long as I end up with all three I'm still happy.
 
Count me in as #10 for a Nessmuk. Thin is good (.090-ish)...steel of your choice. I've got 7 of your knives in different steels and I'm happy with all of them!
 
I've never used 4V so I can't really measure it. I could be persuaded, depends on how many detailed points show up...

How fine of an edge can it take? Which takes a better edge, 3V or 4V? How long does it take to re-sharpen?

3V re-sharpens fast, almost as fast as the typical economy carbon steels. That's a desirable characteristic. 3V is a CPM steel that is field serviceable. Outdoors field serviceability isn't a built in factor with CPM steels seeing as they are/were primarily designed for industrial cutting machines. That implies long term maintenance was probably seen as taken care of by specialized service technician to re-sharpen sheer/cutting blades. Contrary to popular belief, 3V isn't a knife steel, it's a tool steel. 3V kind of found a niche in the knife steel market because it can take a nice edge, not the best (that goes to M4), but a nice edge none the less. I'd point out Crucible didn't always market to knife makers. Point is, how about 4V, what is it's place in knife-making these days?

I didn't vote for M4 simply because it costs a lot. I'm kind of cost conscious this time around.
 
alfred mcdougal said:
I've never used 4V so I can't really measure it. I could be persuaded, depends on how many detailed points show up...

How fine of an edge can it take? Which takes a better edge, 3V or 4V? How long does it take to re-sharpen?

3V re-sharpens fast, almost as fast as the typical economy carbon steels. That's a desirable characteristic. 3V is a CPM steel that is field serviceable. Outdoors field serviceability isn't a built in factor with CPM steels seeing as they are/were primarily designed for industrial cutting machines. That implies long term maintenance was probably seen as taken care of by specialized service technician to re-sharpen sheer/cutting blades. Contrary to popular belief, 3V isn't a knife steel, it's a tool steel. 3V kind of found a niche in the knife steel market because it can take a nice edge, not the best (that goes to M4), but a nice edge none the less. I'd point out Crucible didn't always market to knife makers. Point is, how about 4V, what is it's place in knife-making these days?

I didn't vote for M4 simply because it costs a lot. I'm kind of cost conscious this time around.
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Here is a little bit of what I know and have gathered through conversations with others.
3V found a place in the tool and die industry to bridge the gap between D2 and M4. M4 was sometimes a little too costly and the extra edge holding was not really needed. A steel with a greater toughness and slightly better wear resistance is what 3V brought to the table. It was never designed nor intended for fine edge cutting tools, the intent was for high stress bending and shearing in industrial applications. 4V brings to the table an ideal marriage between 3V and M4. 4V has edge holding very close and almost on par to that of M4 with a toughness close to 3V. 4V does have a tendency to want to rust if not cared for but is no worse than that of O1 or 52100 that I have experienced. I really do not feel that this should be a reason to not consider 4V.

As for resharpening, it is subjective. I will run the 4V at 63 Rc and grind the edges as thin as is reasonable. Touching up the edge should not be a big issue, but resharpening from dead dull would not be a lot of fun without good quality stones. That is the exact thing I would say about most any of the steels I use.

4V has practically the same composition as Vanadis 4. The biggest difference is that Crucible is using a coarser powder than BU which gives the V4E a finer grain structure.
 
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