Uncle Bill needs your vote. PLEASE READ!!

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by Bill Martino, Feb 3, 2005.

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  1. Bill Martino

    Bill Martino

    Mar 5, 1999
    Here's the story short and sweet.

    Mr. H. bought a 12 inch AK from HI. Then he sold the AK to Mr. M. for $50. I got this recent email from Mr. M.:

    "this thing just doesn't seem to want to sharpen. The bevel seems to be hollow ground, I have put 5 hours into trying to fix the bevels, I am not really pleased with this, if there is anyway to get a refund that would be great, I have put a ton of labor into this and I seem to be getting no where, I bought an HI because of the high quality and good reviews, this thing is just a nightmare."

    As far as I can tell from our records Mr. M. has never purchased anything from HI including the 12 inch AK in question so I can't refund anything because a refund is the returning of a payment and no payment has ever been made.

    So the question is should I "give" Mr. M. $50 or should I not. The way you vote will determine my actions.

    Yes = Send Mr. M. $50
    No = Don't send Mr. M the money.

    I will refer Mr. M to this thread so he can cast his vote, too.

    Thanks in advance for your good help.

    I'll give forumites a week to cast their votes and then take action.
    45-70, munk, Roadrunner and 1 other person like this.
  2. Kismet

    Kismet Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Seems like this is a private transaction, outside the business realm of H.I.

    M should address the issue with H.

    Not H.I.'s business.
  3. Geode


    May 12, 2001

    If one wants a refund, standard business practice is:

    1. Return the item in UNUSED condition
    2. With your RECEIPT of orginal purchase

    At most, this is a warranty issue. But IMO that would cover only defects that are warranted. However, HI products do sharpen, and yes I know from personal experience.

    Recourse for buyer is with the person who sold them the knife.
  4. Green Ice

    Green Ice

    Dec 27, 2004
    I agree with Kismet. Its not HI's problem. M should work it out with H.

  5. arty


    Oct 18, 2003
    I just received a 12"AK. The edge is really hard, but I was able to get a nice sharp edge in 5 min with waterstones and a hard Arkansas for final honing.
    You just need the proper sharpening tools.
    There was a small, nearly invisible wave in the edge, but I am ignoring it.
    If you use the wrong tools to sharpen, you can burn the edge and ruin the blade.
  6. Bobwhite


    Nov 30, 1999
    Refund; No, he didn't buy from you. Trade for something or credit; Yes, That is in keeping with the HI standards of backing the product.
  7. Bill Marsh

    Bill Marsh

    Mar 26, 2002
    I vote that if he wants a refund it should come from the guy who got his money --- Mr. H., if Mr. H. wants to commnicate with HI, that is a different story. HI warranties should be ONLY with the original purchaser. There is also a possibility that the new buyer ground it until it was red hot and lost the temper.

    BTW Mr. M. certainly isn't ME!
    Josh Feltman likes this.
  8. Lion's Roar

    Lion's Roar

    Apr 11, 2004

    This smells funny. Give me 5 hours and I'll sharpen darn near anything, metal or not.

    It doesn't sound like a defect. I think Mr. M should take it up with Mr. H.
  9. Bamboo


    Dec 16, 2004
    No on the refund, for all of the above reasons.

    But, it could be an opportunity to gain a new customer and turn a non believer into a believer. Is there anyone who could sharpen the thing for him?? (assuming he hasn't trashed it.)

    I think the majority of how this plays out depends on his own attitude, and willingness to accept the situation for what it is.

    ~ B
  10. mross


    Nov 10, 2003
    Well, given that info I would say NO. It did not break. If he did spend that amount of time grinding it he may have either;
    1) heated it to a point that destroyed the temper. This is outside the refund policy
    2) ground it down so much that he went beyound the temper and is in soft steel - again this is beyound the refund policy.

    Also if the bevel looks hollowground I would say this is not a HI product. At least I have never heard of one having a holllow grind. That usually entails a special grinding setup which is not cheap. I would suspect the kamis don't have one.

    I think his beef is with Mr H.

    The potential to open up a can of worms for people trying to get refunds for
    other vendors products seems to great a risk. I know the customer is always right but there has to be limits.
  11. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    No. He wasn't your customer. (If the khukuri is or was defective, that is something to take up with the seller. Had it been defective, the original purchaser could've taken that up with you, Uncle Bill.)
  12. hoghead


    Dec 17, 2001
    Don't believe the seller should be held responsible for the buyers actions. Especially under questionable circumstances. My vote is no.
  13. Aardvark

    Aardvark Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 26, 2002
    My vote is: no refund to Mr. M. As Bill M said: original purchaser only. I mean, where would you ethically draw the line otherwise, regarding the degree of separation from the person who first bought it?

    Would be an interesting challenge, though, to see of one of us could sharpen it? Hmmmm?
    Josh Feltman likes this.
  14. Nasty

    Nasty Chief Cook & Bottle Wash

    Nov 11, 2003
    No...all of the same reasons. Warrenty goes to the original purchaser, clearly stated everywhere.

    *If* however, you are going to start sending out cash in this manner...I have a 1994 Blazer that really sucks. Can you send my $18,000 back please?
  15. brantoken


    Feb 6, 2004
    First of all you don't know if it is a Hi khuk, it is a claimed Hi khuk.
    Getting It returned could verify that, Having it in hand would be a great way
    to determine exactly what the problem was and how to fix it.
    You could offer to have it beveled correctly for for him and if his claim
    is correct that should fix it up. He did buy the knife , therefore he must want
    it to work?

    Their could be any number of reason why he can't get a good edge , I think you should offer to fix the knife first( if that can be done) and then give him his $50 if you can't make him happy after that. I wouldn't take it personally though, If he has ground a ( for a edge, then it won't matter what knife he gets he won't be satified and will thus defame Hi no matter what you do.
  16. Josh Muller

    Josh Muller

    Jun 22, 2003
    id say no refund as well.

    in our pizza bussiness we try as much as possible to never give money back, because its a complete loss for us, but if the circumstances require it we will. giving money to someone who didnt buy it from us would be out of the question.

    i would say that his unhappiness with his purchase as far as cash is concerned lies with mr. h. if he wants a new 12" then i would say its up to you, i would probably give it to him and see how the one he sends in handles, wether it is damaged or not. if not sell it as a blem.
    Josh Feltman likes this.


    May 24, 2003
    No money refund. Recall item,if defective heat treat replace with like. If not,sharpen and return.
  18. sams


    Apr 21, 2001
    vote : NO

    We don't know the condition when the khukuri changed hands.

    We don't know if it is a HI khkuri.

    Sharpening is the owners problem. Sounds like a tourist type of khukuri not an original.

    Send it to me I'll sharpen it for him original or not, for free. I do that a regular basis for my friends. :)
  19. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    No Refund. No Replacement.

    Original purchaser only.

    Hollow ground? What? If he'll pay the shipping costs, I'll bet there is a Tool Head forumite here who will sharpen the khuk for free.

    I had a Browning Hunting knife that had a hard edge, too hard for me. It was a fine knife. IT was just over my skill level. Today, I could probably sharpen it, but I passed it along to someone who could sharpen it. Browning had a fine knife. I couldn't think of returning to Browning because they'd done their Job TOO WELL.

    Might was well give back an Auto to Detroit becaue it goes faster than you are comfortable with driving. Or a firearm that is too acurate for you, or boat that floats too well....

    I invite Mr M to stay in the forum, read a while, join in, learn about khuks, and then try again with a purchase direct from HI.

  20. hollowdweller


    Sep 22, 2003
    Going strictly from your policy NO.

    Maybe you should have him send it to one of us and see if we have a problem getting it sharp. And then decide if it's valid if you are even thinking about refunding his money.

    I'd be willing to give it a shot. But I'd insist on a pic to show it really is one of yours.
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