What Knives Are Better Survival Knives Than The Esee 6?
- Thread starter ShinyLoveMachine
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Nope just got it today . I have not had a chance to meander about the woods with it yet . But the saw makes a wide notch which is perfect for shelter and deadfall notching ofcourse imho and I do have experience with both so thats not a theoretical assessment .
And using it as a spear may not be acceptable to the bushcraft world . But it a pinch with 550 paracord lashing it for an emergency large animal attack may not be the optimal weapon but short of carrying a real spear which I never have would be acceptable to me .
Not to mention its symmetrical design makes it weighted well for a deadfall itself if I dont want to use the large rock deadfall method . Which I havn't done yet I'll admit however the symmetical shape and its sheer weight suggest it is an optimal deadfall option .
And saying it is worse than an esee because it does so many things compared to an esee is like saying my leatherman surge is worse than a regular wrench because it has more functions imho .
Kinda TOPs ATAX-esque.
That A-tax sure is cool looking . I saw it when I was looking for a new blade . Do you like it despite its obvious non traditional appearance ? Is it actually functional for many tasks ? I might get one one day .
You could use it to sharpen a stick and then fire harden the point. Of course you can use any knife to do that.
A Surge is a worse wrench....
Certainly . I love this knife although not had a chance to use it . I'm sure with ROWEN Mfg the blade it will perform every bit as good as an ESEE . It is a heavy sonova gun at 1.2lbs But thats what you get with 1/2" tops prybars lol
And I love the flat ledge inbetween the front of the saw and the top side of the spear point which allows for you to be able to baton with it without destroying your baton on the saw or the spear edge .
Illl definitely report back how she does.
Knives are decidedly third best at chopping.
Axes are the best cutting tools for chopping. Even a small hatchet is way better than a big knife if you want to chop up wood for a fire or build a quick improvised shelter. A well made tomahawk is probably better than a six inch survival knife, too.
A machete is the second best tool for chopping. And it is better than a small ax for clearing brush or hacking a trail through the jungle, sort of one specialized version of chopping. But not as good for larger diameter or harder woods, and probably not good at all for prying. Any full-slze machete useful for the primary mission of clearing brush has to be long-ish. 24" is common. As such it is going to be kind of light for chopping down evergreen branches to build a shelter in the winter, because the steel is thin. Most machetes flex quite a bit in use. Machetes are second best for chopping.
Of course you can build a stronger machete by increasing the steel thickness, but the weight goes up. If you look at most burly survival knives they have blades between .18 and .25 in thickness. If you make a machete that thickness you are getting into sword territory, so makers cut the length way down, to keep the weight down, and usually end up in the 10" to 12" range.
You can see one of these in the ESE range, too.
Comparison of three categories of ESE blades for survival:
Let's start with your ESE 6: the steel is .188 inch thick, and the knife weighs 12 ozs.
The Lite Machete is .08 inches, less than 1/2 the width of the survival knife. It's 18 ozs.
The hybrid Machete / Knife in the ESE range is the Junglas is their version. It is .188 steel, it's got a 10" blade and it's 24oz's.
It's going to be a lot less efficient than the machete for clearing under growth, (too short, too heavy to swing for hours) but is a lot more stout. The hybrid might be the best survival tool in the knife (as opposed to axe) family. It is the result of building a machete w/ knife-like strength, but shortening it to make it not too ridiculously heavy.
As others have said there are a lot of variations in what "survival" means. Are you walking a long distance, or will it be something you carry in a 4X4 in case you get stuck in the boonies. Is your area hot, cold, desert, forest, ocean facing.
If you watch the program "Naked and Afraid" the contestants, a man and a woman, are dropped off somewhere and try to survive with nothing except one item they each bring. Almost always it's a very large knife / machete and some way to make fire. (A lot of the contestants are former special forces, or run training programs).
If you think about it the hybrid machete knife like the ESE Junglee is not all that different from the original American survival tool, the Bowie knife. For instance the Case Bowie has a 9.5" blade and weighs 20ozs, pretty close in size to the Junglee (granted a different blade shape, but one reason for the big nose-heavy flair in older bowie designs like the Case is to improve chopping ability).
But I still say, if I was going into the forests of the Cascade Range in a survival situation I'm prefer an ax. The classic Hudson't Bay axe is prized for portability. The Council Tools version has a two pound head, so probably weighs 3lbs total. Maybe you think it's ridiculous to compare even a large knife that can belt carried with a full size ax, the you have to strap to a pack. Fair enough.
The ubiquitous Easton all-steel hatchet the "Sportsman Axe" comes in 12" and 14" versions. (The 12" is hard to find). The model 24A (the 14" one) weighs 25 ozs, same as the Junglee. (Some prefer the traditional wood handle hatchet, those are typically a little lighter, or if you prefer a little bigger at that weight.) Another option is something like the Two Hawks voyager tomahawk, it's their biggest Tomahawk/Axe and has a 1 lb head, so probably weighs the same as a big Bowie.
I think a Junglee (or similar super duty short machete or very large Bowie knife) vs. similar weight hatchet / hawk / small ax would be a good comparo.
Axes are the best cutting tools for chopping. Even a small hatchet is way better than a big knife if you want to chop up wood for a fire or build a quick improvised shelter. A well made tomahawk is probably better than a six inch survival knife, too.
A machete is the second best tool for chopping. And it is better than a small ax for clearing brush or hacking a trail through the jungle, sort of one specialized version of chopping. But not as good for larger diameter or harder woods, and probably not good at all for prying. Any full-slze machete useful for the primary mission of clearing brush has to be long-ish. 24" is common. As such it is going to be kind of light for chopping down evergreen branches to build a shelter in the winter, because the steel is thin. Most machetes flex quite a bit in use. Machetes are second best for chopping.
Of course you can build a stronger machete by increasing the steel thickness, but the weight goes up. If you look at most burly survival knives they have blades between .18 and .25 in thickness. If you make a machete that thickness you are getting into sword territory, so makers cut the length way down, to keep the weight down, and usually end up in the 10" to 12" range.
You can see one of these in the ESE range, too.
Comparison of three categories of ESE blades for survival:
Let's start with your ESE 6: the steel is .188 inch thick, and the knife weighs 12 ozs.
The Lite Machete is .08 inches, less than 1/2 the width of the survival knife. It's 18 ozs.
The hybrid Machete / Knife in the ESE range is the Junglas is their version. It is .188 steel, it's got a 10" blade and it's 24oz's.
It's going to be a lot less efficient than the machete for clearing under growth, (too short, too heavy to swing for hours) but is a lot more stout. The hybrid might be the best survival tool in the knife (as opposed to axe) family. It is the result of building a machete w/ knife-like strength, but shortening it to make it not too ridiculously heavy.
As others have said there are a lot of variations in what "survival" means. Are you walking a long distance, or will it be something you carry in a 4X4 in case you get stuck in the boonies. Is your area hot, cold, desert, forest, ocean facing.
If you watch the program "Naked and Afraid" the contestants, a man and a woman, are dropped off somewhere and try to survive with nothing except one item they each bring. Almost always it's a very large knife / machete and some way to make fire. (A lot of the contestants are former special forces, or run training programs).
If you think about it the hybrid machete knife like the ESE Junglee is not all that different from the original American survival tool, the Bowie knife. For instance the Case Bowie has a 9.5" blade and weighs 20ozs, pretty close in size to the Junglee (granted a different blade shape, but one reason for the big nose-heavy flair in older bowie designs like the Case is to improve chopping ability).
But I still say, if I was going into the forests of the Cascade Range in a survival situation I'm prefer an ax. The classic Hudson't Bay axe is prized for portability. The Council Tools version has a two pound head, so probably weighs 3lbs total. Maybe you think it's ridiculous to compare even a large knife that can belt carried with a full size ax, the you have to strap to a pack. Fair enough.
The ubiquitous Easton all-steel hatchet the "Sportsman Axe" comes in 12" and 14" versions. (The 12" is hard to find). The model 24A (the 14" one) weighs 25 ozs, same as the Junglee. (Some prefer the traditional wood handle hatchet, those are typically a little lighter, or if you prefer a little bigger at that weight.) Another option is something like the Two Hawks voyager tomahawk, it's their biggest Tomahawk/Axe and has a 1 lb head, so probably weighs the same as a big Bowie.
I think a Junglee (or similar super duty short machete or very large Bowie knife) vs. similar weight hatchet / hawk / small ax would be a good comparo.
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I'm a huge fan of a Silky Saw to compliment any knife.
Big Knife, then I'm really impressed with my recently found Skrama and its less weight than a Junglas. A thinking man's golock.
The GB Small Forest Axe maybe the most compact and capable of the portable axes but they have some real issues. Safety being a big one as they require some safety drill precautions to keep one safe; which basically means practice your chopping safety procedures and keep to them. They also are limited by the weight and size of the head, as can be said of tomahawks which are even more limited to what they can tackle. A full sized felling axe is a better and safer tool, just not as portable.
Over the years I seem to be going smaller and keener on my belt knife be it a fixed or folder. KISS and know your knife capabilities and limitations. Then compliment it with a more efficient tool such as a saw or Skrama.
Big Knife, then I'm really impressed with my recently found Skrama and its less weight than a Junglas. A thinking man's golock.
The GB Small Forest Axe maybe the most compact and capable of the portable axes but they have some real issues. Safety being a big one as they require some safety drill precautions to keep one safe; which basically means practice your chopping safety procedures and keep to them. They also are limited by the weight and size of the head, as can be said of tomahawks which are even more limited to what they can tackle. A full sized felling axe is a better and safer tool, just not as portable.
Over the years I seem to be going smaller and keener on my belt knife be it a fixed or folder. KISS and know your knife capabilities and limitations. Then compliment it with a more efficient tool such as a saw or Skrama.
Hmm that's a new one on me. What is the advantage of having a two-hand handle like that? It's a 10" blade, with an 8" handle. It's certainly unique and different.
I know a lot of people love the GB Small Forest Ax, but I've never had or seen one. Two pound head, 19" handle. The length is right about the size of the typical tomahawk, but the head is near that of a full size ax.
There is something nicely balanced about the typical tomahawk, but it's a one handed tool, like a hatchet. It's sort of consensus design arrived at over generations.
For the Gransfors family I'd be tempted to go one size up. That's the Scandanavian Forest Ax, a 2.6 lb head and a 26" shaft. if I were doing extended Alaskan or Canadian canoe camping trip or something, where you are going to chop a lot of wood, but weight is still an issue that's close to perfect.
Very similar specs to the classic Hudson's Bay Ax, where you still get a full length handle, and because it's familiar size and mechanics less likely (for me, at least) to make a mistake with. The Council tools Hudson Bay Ax has a 2 lb head and a 28" shaft. (They have an 18" version too, same head.)
Hatchets also seem less safe than axes for a lot of things, to me. You have to be extra careful with them. I use my tomahawk for gardening, it's great for cutting ground cover vines out. The do seem inherently better balanced than hatchets. IMHO. Maybe not as efficient though.
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I did a write up on the Skrama in Knife Reviews and Testing. Lots to like about it, the forward grip giving neutral balance being one, and the other its a cutting blade (not an axe), and best bit they are not exactly expensive. I'm a complete convert, just love mine; glowing reports by others on y tube too.
(Since my review they have sold out of the carbon steel ones, but I'm pretty sure there are more in production already. I've given two away and need to order some more).
(Since my review they have sold out of the carbon steel ones, but I'm pretty sure there are more in production already. I've given two away and need to order some more).
I meant pliers not a wrench , sorry . And pliers of equal size to the surge I dont believe your statement to be true. Even has replaceable 154cm wire cutters on the leatherman pliers . Never have seen that on regular ol craftsman ones. But semantics. I think a blade like the Surv-tac can do anything the esee 6 can do . You find me something it cant and ill eat my hat .
Another vote for survive knives GSO's in whatever length you like. I do have an esee 6 and I do like the esee line. The bad thing is you almost need to buy any knife and use it for a while to know what works for you. At least I have a tuff time just from looking at stuff in the web.
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In truth I take a SAK on a day treks as they are light weight with plenty of tools. A Leatherman Charge, GSO 3.5/4.5 (have both), Skrama, Silky, and axe, in any combination when there is work to be done. All excellent.
To be fair the Skrama does the cutting side, even small blade cutting, so best complimented with a multitool than small fixed or folder.
As knives get burlier they do get a LOT heavier, and yeah backpacking in general you don't want a 24oz Junglee, something way lighter makes sense. The 1960s designed Buck 105 Pathfinder 5" and 102 Woodsman are really light: 4.2 and 2.5 oz's. I'd rather have a light sheath knife to a Leatherman, but that may be in part psychological.
In truth I take a SAK on a day treks as they are light weight with plenty of tools. A Leatherman Charge, GSO 3.5/4.5 (have both), Skrama, Silky, and axe, in any combination when there is work to be done. All excellent.
To be fair the Skrama does the cutting side, even small blade cutting, so best complimented with a multitool than small fixed or folder.
What is the "GSO" ?
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GSO 3.5.
I have a 4.5 too:
Small knives are good:
I have a 4.5 too:
Small knives are good:
No, I don't like it. I question whether it is functional for any tasks. Its a fantasy piece. Pure ninja.
It can....poorly. And there is no realistic outdoor task it can do, that an ESEE can't. Pure silliness.
We should have a duel sir
A list of tasks . You film the 6 ill film the 7 You send me your footage Ill mesh it in with mine not editing yours a bit , post it to youtube and let the good people decide lol