Who Has Switched From the Wicked Edge to the Edge Pro System, and Why?

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Glock Guy said:
No, if you read my original post (and it looks like you did not), you would understand that I'm looking for people who HAVE compared product A to product B, and decided on one based on what they liked about one, or didn't like about the other. Again though, since you don't seem to understand the question, at least do us all a favor and stay out of the conversation...
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Please accept my apology. I have read "vs" in the sentence "Wicked Edge vs. Edge Pro" as "comparison of Wicked Edge and Edge Pro" instead of "fight of Wicked Edge and Edge Pro".
I hope I'm allowed to give an extra comment because I know a few people who 1) sold from WE over EP 2) use both WE and EP. The reasons why people choose after ownership are completely different from the reason for 1st purchase. When a person favors Edge Pro over WE for the first purchase, he says something like "it's unsafe, it's impossible to sharpen odd shapes without reclamping, stones are expensive". When people sell WE, many cannot explain why they sell WE - they say something like "it's uncomfortable for me". In my opinion, it depends on how ambidextrous is the person. People who rely on burr development cannot use WE but they realize it after purchase only. Customers who use both in commercial sharpening are the most interesting. They say that WE is faster in setup and sharpening but not for all knives.
 
Add me to the group that switched from the WE to EP. I have been following this thread and trying to think of why I really did switch. I really like that the EP is closer to freehand as you do not use a clamp, the large variety of stones and strops, and ..... I can’t really articulate why. But I sold my WE. I really enjoy using the EP, I have had the basic model for about 2 years now. The drill stop collar makes using a variety of stones and strops a no brainer.
 
Gritomatic said:
Please accept my apology. I have read "vs" in the sentence "Wicked Edge vs. Edge Pro" as "comparison of Wicked Edge and Edge Pro" instead of "fight of Wicked Edge and Edge Pro".
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Apology accepted, and sorry if I got a little snippy, too. All I wanted to do was find out the actual reasons why people switched from the Wicked Edge to the Edge Pro, and that's why I'm working hard to keep my thread focused on just that.

It seems like threads like these go off the rails because it's not enough for people to say that they like one system. They also feel the need to tell you why they think the other system is crap. The truth is that BOTH of these are awesome systems that are well built, with companies backing them with great product support and customer service. There is no wrong answer here. Just reasons or opinions on why somebody switched from the Wicked Edge to the Edge Pro, and so far we have gotten some great input.


Gritomatic said:
I hope I'm allowed to give an extra comment because I know a few people who 1) sold from WE over EP 2) use both WE and EP. The reasons why people choose after ownership are completely different from the reason for 1st purchase. When a person favors Edge Pro over WE for the first purchase, he says something like "it's unsafe, it's impossible to sharpen odd shapes without reclamping, stones are expensive". When people sell WE, many cannot explain why they sell WE - they say something like "it's uncomfortable for me". In my opinion, it depends on how ambidextrous is the person. People who rely on burr development cannot use WE but they realize it after purchase only. Customers who use both in commercial sharpening are the most interesting. They say that WE is faster in setup and sharpening but not for all knives.
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THIS is exactly the info I was hoping for as well, so thank you for your post. I have used the WE for years and thought it was fast, but watching somebody like Ben Dale (the founder of Edge Pro) sharpen a knife is something to behold. Like Ankerson said in his post, he can re-profile and sharpen a blade in 5-10 minutes regardless of the steel. That is impressive.


I created this thread for 2 main reasons:


1. To test a theory. I believe that the system somebody starts with is what they get comfortable with, and when somebody learns to do something a certain way, most people don't want to learn, or even try to learn, any other way. That's why it's much easier to convince somebody of something, than it is to get them to change their opinion, and that's why I wanted to hear from the people that have used the WE (as they probably started with it) and then decided to change. They must have had some pretty big reasons in order to switch.

and,

2. I have been thinking of changing from the WE system I've used for years, and wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one crazy enough to do so! I get some great edges with they system, and have a lot of money invested in it, but I feel it's something I have to use, and not something I get to use, if that makes sense. It seems more like a chore, and I don't really get any enjoyment out of it. Especially the startup process. Whereas watching somebody like Ben Dale, or some of the youtube sharpeners just whip through some blades with the Edge Pro looks much more fun, and I would be willing to bet the finished product is the same, if not better, due to the increased variety of stones available.

I'm also glad to hear that some of the things I have thought of were actual reasons some people switched.

So again, thanks again to everyone for their input, and for those of you that haven't posted yet, please feel free to post your story, too!!!

***EDIT: Since you are a supporting member, I think it's OK to post this. I just checked out your website and it looks like you have one of the largest selections of Edge Pro stones around. I'm sure I'll be doing business with you in the future! ***
 
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razor-edge-knives said:
I switched from EP pro to Wicked Edge but not the other way like you are asking. Sorry!
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Maybe I'm over stepping my bounds but I request and would love to hear . . . since you have EXTENSIVE experience with sharpening and I assume BOTH EP and WE . . . the high points of the WE for you.
And of course anything else you would generously contribute on the subject.
I just might go for a WE in the future / I'm not saying the EP is the ultimate just that I get edges off it that are sharp enough to turn my crank.

Ankerson :
Good to see you back in the general fray here. :thumbsup:
 
The biggest advantage that I found with the Wicked Edge was that raising a burr was not necessary.

I put "tree-topping" edges on several knives using the WE without ever raising a burr.
I do raise a burr on the EP.

I think the burr is another matter of personal preference. One of my great uncles was a free hand sharpener and his edges were always shaving sharp.

His technique was an edge trailing stroke on one side, then flip and repeat for the other side.
I will point out, however, that uncle Nathan had the patiece of Job. If it took him half a day to sharpen a blade, he just smiled and said "so be it."
 
Ben Dover said:
One of my great uncles was a free hand sharpener and his edges were always shaving sharp. His technique was an edge trailing stroke on one side, then flip and repeat for the other side. I will point out, however, that uncle Nathan had the patiece of Job. If it took him half a day to sharpen a blade, he just smiled and said "so be it."
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The reputation for the absolute sharpest edges belongs to Rockstead. While there are many factors that contribute to the atom-splitting sharpness they achieve (steel type, super high Rockwell hardness, etc.) they sharpen with an edge trailing technique on various grades of sandpaper.

I wish I could find the picture/video of their shop where it showed how they sharpen thier blades. They have a sandpaper roll mounted to what looks like a long cutting board with a softer (rubber-ish mabye?) top, that gives them a slightly convex edge as well. They basically go from grit to grit, edge-trailing only, from coarse to super-fine.

If you have ever tried a Rockstead knife, or seen some of the cut tests for them, they are beyond sharp. I think the edge trailing method they use has to contribute to that, and I've heard more than a few people ( D Diemaker included) mention that the edge-trailing method was a big key to sharpness as well.

EDIT: FOUND IT - Here are the Rockstead Sharpening pics!!!
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Glock dude. Thank you for that info. I was not with familiar with Rockstead, but you've aroused my curiosity.:)
 
Ben Dover said:
Glock dude. Thank you for that info. I was not with familiar with Rockstead, but you've aroused my curiosity.:)
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I just remembered another cool Rockstead story from a phone conversation with Ben Dale himself. He said a while back he was taking a picture of a high end Rockstead fixed blade he had on a bed, and used a sheet for the background. Just putting the blade on the sheet in a way that the edge touched the sheet actually made a cut. He didn't notice it until he looked closer at the picture, then checked the sheet.

Like I said, Rockstead edges are atom-splitting sharp!
 
The factory edge on my Rockstead is definitely sharp, but it's not magic. It doesn't split everything it touches. The sharpest knife I've ever received from a maker was an ordinary production Benchmade Rukus. Somebody had a good day on the sharpening line.

Edge trailing can definitely make a super sharp edge, but that technique still produces a burr; that burr is fragile and difficult to detect and remove. If you don't remove it, the edge's keenest will quickly degrade.

Todd's Science of Sharp site shows this pretty well:
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/02/09/the-pasted-strop-part-1/

With edge leading, it's a lot easier to remove a burr. If you combine the two techniques, you can get an awesome edge -- but everything depends on technique.
 
I've been using a little technique for removing micro-burrs, that seems to work well on the high end steels.

I make a slight, VERY LITE PRESSURE cut into the end of a piece of balsa.

Sometimes need to repeat. Looking at it under my cheap digital microscope at 20X, the burrs disasppear.
 
Ben Dover said:
I've been using a little technique for removing micro-burrs, that seems to work well on the high end steels.

I make a slight, VERY LITE PRESSURE cut into the end of a piece of balsa.

Sometimes need to repeat. Looking at it under my cheap digital microscope at 20X, the burrs disasppear.
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I do this as well but have only found it to work on machine sharpening when stropping w/ a leather belt and folding it back and forth a bit before I make the cut into wood, then I hit it for a few more passes on a belt. Maybe @ToddS you could chime in on this topic? i can't recall if you have examined this effect or not.
 
I may be mis-remembering but I thought Todd had once recommended against the practice of burr removal by cutting into cork or balsa or the like. It may have been another respected member if not Todd but I do remember its being discussed.
 
I have found, under my microscope, that edge leading strokes will push the fine apex edge into the blade chipping some off leaving a more blunt apex, edge trailing will not do this so that is why it can make a sharper edge. As for the burr, this is where I get to do a sales plug, the Matrix stones create a noticeably smaller burr than any other stone I have used, so there is a smaller burr to deal with. I think the best way to remove whatever burr is left is by stropping. For most of my knives, I like bare leather, for Maxamet I like a little diamond on it. At the scale that stropping works steel behaves much differently, under my microscope I can see that a few passes with a bare strop will smooth the steel surface. More than 2 passes with a diamond loaded strop and you can see the bevel shrink as the apex is worn off creating a convex micro-bevel, be real careful with diamond, it cuts fast. I disagree with cutting into something soft to remove the burr as it probably tears it off vs wearing it off, causing microscopic damage to the apex.

I can't say enough about how important a good microscope is in learning to sharpen, mine has destroyed a lot of preconceived beliefs I had for a long time.
 
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It doesn't look to me that a bare leather strop will convex the edge. Do you think it does? I only strop with it in my guided sharpener at the same angle as the stones.
 
OK, before this turns into a "Edge Leading vs. Edge Trailing" discussion on how to get the sharpest edges, let's get back on the original subject of leaving the Wicked Edge to go to the Edge Pro.

I don't want to shut this thread down, as I believe it has some great info on people looking to drop some big $$$ on one of these systems. I appreciate the input, but let's get back on track please. Mods: Thanks for cleaning this thread up - We appreciate you guys!

For those of you (and there have been a lot) that have provided some great input on the desired topic, I thank you!

For some of you who have not contributed to the discussion topic at all, please find another thread to hijack...
 
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I think one of the biggest differences is in the stones. With the WE, you have their stones. I think Chosera used to be an option, but they were discontinued for some reason.

For the Edge Pro, there seems to be TONS of options with the New (and reportedly awesome) Diamond Matrix stones, the Shapton's, and even Ankerson's favorite the Congress Moldmasters.

I've heard nothing but good things about the new Diamond Matrix (thanks D Diemaker !), but do any Edge Pro users have any favorite stones that are not listed above???
 
Glock Guy said:
I've heard nothing but good things about the new Diamond Matrix (thanks D Diemaker !), but do any Edge Pro users have any favorite stones that are not listed above???
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I'm a bit eager to bag a couple of the new diamond matrix stones, but I'm also reluctant. I have a few "budget" diamond plates that move a lot of material in a short time, but they're harsh on the blade. I expect that Diemaker's creations will do better.

My favorite stones right now are a 1k Nubatama Platinum Hard and a 3k Nubatama Platinum Hard that came from Ken Schwartz. He suggested these as the solution to some challenges I was having with Maxamet. I've found that despite being pretty hard, they still cut nicely enough, and they leave an excellent finish. They've done nicely on everything from Maxamet to some old German stainless Henkels in the kitchen.
 
RustyIron said:
...My favorite stones right now are a 1k Nubatama Platinum Hard and a 3k Nubatama Platinum Hard that came from Ken Schwartz. He suggested these as the solution to some challenges I was having with Maxamet. I've found that despite being pretty hard, they still cut nicely enough, and they leave an excellent finish. They've done nicely on everything from Maxamet to some old German stainless Henkels in the kitchen.
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Nice! While I've heard of Ken, I've never even heard of these stones before. Do you need to mount them on the stone blanks, or do they come mounted?
 
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