Who Has Switched From the Wicked Edge to the Edge Pro System, and Why?
- Thread starter Glock Guy
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Ken mounts his stones on blanks. He does stones for Edge Pro, large natural stones, nanocloth, glass, and his own diamond and cbn emulsions. I don't know if he does Wicked Edge mounting. I'm not experienced enough to know which are the absolute best of the myriad of stones that are available, but what I can count on is Ken's wisdom to point me in the right direction to get the best edge that my skill allows. His prices are not out of line with other suppliers. If you're interested in adding a couple new rocks to your collection, give him a call at 209. 612. 2790. That's Pacific Time and it's his home, so take that into consideration.
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I like Ken as a person and I have ordered from him many times but as of late his work has gotten pretty sloppy,I have gotten stones that were way out of level by a very large amount and also blanks that were mounted so poorly it really made me wonder.
I won't trash Ken or say he is an idiot because he is not and his knowledge of cutting stones and Natural Japanese stones is rivaled by few if any but it has not just been me also friend of mine that are local to me that have gotten crap stones as of late and so we choose to vote differently with are dollars.
I won't trash Ken or say he is an idiot because he is not and his knowledge of cutting stones and Natural Japanese stones is rivaled by few if any but it has not just been me also friend of mine that are local to me that have gotten crap stones as of late and so we choose to vote differently with are dollars.
Glock Guy
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Getting back on track here...
Does anyone have experience with the Shapton Glass stones? I read a review on a website they are sold on and the guy said that the Shapton 500, 2K and 16K were his main go to stones that produced a great mirror finish on all his blades.
Now I take this with a grain of salt, but if that is true that you can go from a 500 to a 2K, then to a 16K and get a nice mirror finish with 3 stones, then I am in!
I'm just wondering if anyone has actual experience anywhere close to that?
Does anyone have experience with the Shapton Glass stones? I read a review on a website they are sold on and the guy said that the Shapton 500, 2K and 16K were his main go to stones that produced a great mirror finish on all his blades.
Now I take this with a grain of salt, but if that is true that you can go from a 500 to a 2K, then to a 16K and get a nice mirror finish with 3 stones, then I am in!
I'm just wondering if anyone has actual experience anywhere close to that?
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Nope, too big of jumps for me when I tried them. That and I found going past the 8k the finish degraded, as in the stones were too fine. I tried the full set to 30,000 or so grit. They are aluminum oxide, not magic pixie dust. But I did like them a lot, just make sure they are properly dressed since they don't come dressed when new.
Nope, too big of jumps for me when I tried them. That and I found going past the 8k the finish degraded, as in the stones were too fine to work. I tried the full set to 30,000 or so grit. They are aluminum oxide, not magic pixie dust. But I did like them a lot, just make sure they are properly dressed since they don't come dressed when new.
Glock Guy
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I have absolutely ZERO experience with water stones, but figured that couldn't be right. I KNOW I will be going with the Diamond Matrix stones, but these seemed to be pretty popular, too.
Thanks for the reminder about dressing the Shaptons, as I know WON'T need to do that with the Diamond Matrix stones!
Not at first but how and when the Matrix stones are dressed is critical to their performance. There is a learning curve since they are quite different. To find out how much pressure to use you will need to slowly increase it until you are using too much, which will become quite obvious, then dress and try again. After a few of these cycles, you will settle down and not dress them very often, and very rarely for the 80 and 250.
What stones you like depends a lot on what steels and edges you like. There is no such thing as the best stone for everyone. Yes the Matrix stones are a bit pricey, trying to be positive, but you can try the full set out for the price of return shipping, which is around $15. It is a good way to get the newness factor out of the way before deciding if you want to spend the money.
What stones you like depends a lot on what steels and edges you like. There is no such thing as the best stone for everyone. Yes the Matrix stones are a bit pricey, trying to be positive, but you can try the full set out for the price of return shipping, which is around $15. It is a good way to get the newness factor out of the way before deciding if you want to spend the money.
NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY
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You can do that 2k to 16k however the 16k will really expose all the scratches and won't look that great (if that's important to you). Just to big of a jump overall, you need to keep the progression much tighter if you want a nice mirror finish.
If you spend enough time on each stone why wouldn't it eventually work? That doesn't mean it's a good method however.
NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY
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By that logic you could just skip the 2k right? I think one would spend so much time on the higher grit stone you'd fatigue that steel in the process. Not sure if you have ever used "high grit" stones however they are for polishing and not "cutting".
Glock Guy
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Eventually, yes. The Grand Canyon was cut with water... eventually.
I think you hit it on the head. There are stones for cutting, and stones for polishing, but you don't want to use a polishing stone to cut, or a cutting stone to polish with!
Glock Guy
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Eventually, yes. The Grand Canyon was cut with water... eventually.
I think you hit it on the head. There are stones for cutting, and stones for polishing, but you don't want to use a polishing stone to cut, or a cutting stone to polish with!
I have to disagree, all stones cut. When the scratches get small enough we call it polishing. Theoretically, you want to remove twice the depth of material as the deepest scratch left from the previous stone, as in deepest scratch x 2. The scratch will damage the material so you need to remove that damaged material with the next finer stone. I learned this from an engineer I worked with who spent 6 months studying polishing for one of the Apollo missions. The Science of Sharp blog covered this recently as well.
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You can easily go from Shapton Glass 2k to 16k if you lap the 16k first. These stones have a mix of "correct-sized" grit and much larger grit, and that larger grit will cut quickly for a brief time after lapping. I believe the purpose of the large grit is to make the stone "hard" and to burnish the bevel into a mirror polish (when they are smooth).
After that brief period of fast cutting, the 16k has about 1/4 the metal removal rate of the 2k. I measured a removal rate of 0.5 microns per 100 strokes on the 16k, and the 2k will not normally scratch deeper than 0.5 microns.
After that brief period of fast cutting, the 16k has about 1/4 the metal removal rate of the 2k. I measured a removal rate of 0.5 microns per 100 strokes on the 16k, and the 2k will not normally scratch deeper than 0.5 microns.
Glock Guy
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Cool friend.
I get what you are saying. All I meant is that while a 16K probably can (eventually) polish out the scratches from a 500 grit stone, it would be far more efficient to go up a bit, just like you are talking about in your post.
The bottom line is that just because something can be done, doesn't mean doing it that way is the best.
Glock Guy
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Precisely my point.
Nobody said it wasn't possible. My point was that it could not be that efficient. Big difference.
I have gotten some great mirrored edges (better with some steels than others) on the WE, but my typical progressions looks like this: 400/600/800/1000/1500/2200/3000 stones, then on to the polishing tapes, and finally down to .25 micron strops.
My point was that even though I have no experience with water stones, there is no way they were getting the same, scratch free results I got with just 3 stones. It's exactly what
NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY
mentioned: You can get a good polish where there aren't deep scratches, but it will take a long time to get rid of the deepest scratches. The deep scratches will also be more visible next to the scratch free parts of the edge as well. There is really no mystery behind getting a nice, polished edge. You just need to remove the scratches from the previous stone until the scratch pattern (polishing, at some point) is so fine that it looks like there is nothing there. That is both a combination of technique and stones.
The reason I believe the majority of people don't get the nice, mirror finish that they are after is because they don't have the patience, not because they lack the tools.
For resin bond diamond, I find the fastest grit progression is to halve the abrasive size for the next stone. This seems to work on steel, ceramic, and quartz so pretty universal. I don't know if this works for other abrasives or bonds but I think it would be a good starting point.
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