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Why do knife snobs hate Cold Steel??

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by sharp lupo, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. RafaelHerschel

    RafaelHerschel

    252
    Jun 19, 2010
    Spyderco Delica 4 Flat Ground FRN- 89,95 list price
    - VG-10 steel (better knife steel than VG-1 used for the Voyager line)
    - Flat ground
    - skeletonized stainless steel liners

    Spyderco Endura 4 FRN- 94,95 list price
    - VG-10 steel (better knife steel than VG-1 used for the Voyager line)
    - skeletonized stainless steel liners

    Spyderco Pacific Salt Black FRN- 99,50 list price
    - H-1 steel (will not rust!)

    I'm also a big fan of the Benchmade Griptilian, mostly because of the ecellent grip that is provided by the handle.

    Compare to:

    Cold Steel Recon I- 104,99 list price
    - according to the website: a standard that is hard to beat- Aus 8A (not bad, but not as good as VG-10 and not a 100% rustproof steel like H-1)
    - Teflon coating (value depends on personal taste)

    Cold steel folders that use Aus8A:
    Recon
    American Lawman
    Espada
    Spartan
    Rajah
    Ti-Lite

    Fixed blades?Check out Fallkniven. Expensive but real quality.

    I own about 70 decent knives. Mostly in the 50,- to 250,- range. Some of those knives are made by Cold Steel and I have handled (worked with) Cold Steel fixed blades that are owned by a friend of mine. Otherwise it’s mostly Spyderco and Benchmade for folders, Ka-Bar and Buck for inexpensive fixed blades and Fallkniven for slightly more expensive knives.

    I can say that although my experience with Cold Steel is not bad, it’s not a brand I recommend to friends, simply because there is a lot of choice out there. Widely available brands like Spyderco, Benchmade and Fallkniven provide (at least in my opinion) better quality and/or better value for money.
     
  2. Ankerson

    Ankerson Knife and Computer Geek Platinum Member Gold Member

    Nov 2, 2002


    VG-10 isn't noticeably better than VG-1 in real world use from what I have seen over the years.

    VG-1 is tougher than VG-10 from my experience and will hold an edge just as long.

    Both are great steels though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
  3. RafaelHerschel

    RafaelHerschel

    252
    Jun 19, 2010
    Fair enough.
     
  4. cziv

    cziv

    Nov 24, 2005
    That would be cool but I'd like to see them bent in a vice, weights hung on handles, slammed through car doors....etc like CS does more. :D :thumbup:
     
  5. xmtgx

    xmtgx

    549
    May 11, 2007
    Do they ever show the blade after the bend in any of the videos? I always see they bend to like 70 degrees then cut the clip to another torture test.
    I also wonder how many blades they destroy making the videos ;)
     
  6. marthinus

    marthinus KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 10, 2006
    Look at my reply nr. 190 on this regard
     
  7. cziv

    cziv

    Nov 24, 2005
    Well at least the ones in the videos don't snap when bent or in the vice or in the car hood. One can only wonder on how many failures there are. They have to cut off to go to the next segment of the video. :)
     
  8. waynejitsu

    waynejitsu

    791
    Oct 1, 2002
    Just thinking out loud here...,
    For arguments sake, let's say CS does pass all the "torture" tests, the vise-bend your knife test, cutting car doors, hanging weights on a folder, etc, etc.
    Now, let's say "no other knife" will pass those tests.
    Now, let's say ALL the other knives cut better, slice better, hold an edge longer, etc, etc.
    Isn't a knife made for cutting more than taking a hammer to?

    As an example, a good friend of mine, which I have not spoke to in years (he moved away, then years later, moved back), carried a CS knife. I think mostly because I used to always talk about them 20 or so years ago.
    I gave him a Kershaw Cyclone.
    He no longer carries the CS after using the Cyclone.

    Maybe I would still carry a CS "if" I wanted a knife to just abuse, however, since I want a knife to mostly "cut", I carry a Benchmade, Kershaw, Buck, Emerson, Bradley, etc.
     
  9. Ankerson

    Ankerson Knife and Computer Geek Platinum Member Gold Member

    Nov 2, 2002
    I hope you are not implying that CS knives won't cut. ;)
     
  10. waynejitsu

    waynejitsu

    791
    Oct 1, 2002
    No more than I am saying you can not put another knife in a vise or hang weights from it:)

    Some knives and blades do some things better than others.
    I prefer a knife that cuts better and longer than a knife that can bend a bit more...
     
  11. Zombie Zeke

    Zombie Zeke

    Nov 26, 2006
    Endura < Recon 1

    Manix 2 >Recon 1

    I think that simple little equation should help for the toughness of stabbing through car doors brigade and the holes of thumbs brotherhood.:D

    Seriously though the Busse folder beats everything, in the world, forever. ;)
     
  12. Ankerson

    Ankerson Knife and Computer Geek Platinum Member Gold Member

    Nov 2, 2002

    Bending/ Flexing has to do with tempering... Stiffness or flexibility can be controlled in the tempering process.

    Phil Wilson makes Fillet knives out of S90V that will flex very well and hold an edge for a very, very, very, very long time. But then they are customs so that's different, but you get my point.
     
  13. waynejitsu

    waynejitsu

    791
    Oct 1, 2002
    Yes, so the "point" of having a knife is to "cut".
    Why not do a Cut Test.
    If CS was that good, I would think they would take other knives and do a side by side slice and cut test using their production knives vs other production knives.
    Then, they would have "proof".
    Comparing your own products is fine and every marketing scheme states they are the best, however, the only way to know is to do a side by side test that is consistent and repeatable without any variables.
    Any company can "stage" a "proof test" to show they have the "best product".
    I can say I am "the best" at Jiu-Jitsu, however, competition is the only way to find your strengths and weaknesses and then make improvements.
    If you only compete against yourself, you will always win, LOL!!
    (get the point? :)
     
  14. Gator97

    Gator97 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 10, 2000
    It really depends on what you are doing in the real world and how. VG-10 has higher working hardness. At least based on what I see in real world knives. Having thin edges on both would show the difference quite well.
     
  15. A.P.F.

    A.P.F.

    Mar 3, 2006
    I think that the issues here are 'application' and preference'. I, like many others here, have knives with a great variety of steels. As I enjoy the woods, my personal preference leans toward toughness and a steel that I can easily touch up in the field. As a result, AUS8, 420HC, 440C, VG-1 and their ilk, all share a favored place in my collection.

    There are no bad steels, just non-appropriate applications, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
  16. seniormcblade

    seniormcblade

    122
    Oct 15, 2010
    abuse and real world use are a absolute opposite. im not slamming my knives through a car door"they are not cheap and my name is not rockefeller" whats missing here?

    joey
     
  17. Ankerson

    Ankerson Knife and Computer Geek Platinum Member Gold Member

    Nov 2, 2002
    Nobody does that. ;)

    That would be trampling on another Companies product on video, not good form in anyone's book.

    CS has done cutting videos, they are on YT.

    I have thinned both out over the years and like I said VG-1 is tougher and you won't notice the difference in edge holding in real use. They are very close in edge retention, close enough to be hard to really see the difference in day to day use.
     
  18. cziv

    cziv

    Nov 24, 2005
    I watched BLUNTRUTH doing a convex sharpening video on his Master Hunter and he said that CS VG-1 was tough stuff and a bear to re-profile. :)
     
  19. Ankerson

    Ankerson Knife and Computer Geek Platinum Member Gold Member

    Nov 2, 2002
    Not on my Edge Pro it's not, it eats steel like ZDP etc for breakfast so VG-1 is no problem. :D
     
  20. Bigfattyt

    Bigfattyt Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 23, 2007

    I have owned and used lots of CS knives. I had never had a problem with one till I bought two Black Rhino's.

    The lock spring worked forward and dented the edge, then the knife would not close all the way.

    I sent it back and they sent me a new one (three months or so later.....they told me they were buys with their big sale).

    The new one, same thing. The lock spring has now moved forward and is denting the edge and keeping it from closing all the way. I took the knife apart to check it out and see how to fix it.

    It is fixable, but I should not have to "fix" a new knife. I also noticed that the pivot hole looks peened, or keyholed almost, and the knife has seen no real use.

    I am going to sent it back again, and get another, and then fix the spring with a bit of epoxy so it stays put.

    Love the blade shape and size for sure.

    The knife from CS I am really loving a lot right now is the pocket bushman. It is the folding version that they "fixed" with the straight milled channel. Really neat little blade. Wish it was offered with a more performance steel, I would pay more for one.

    The bottom line is just buy what you like, and use it.

    Yes, I have higher end knives. Most my fixed blades are Busse, and people like to crap on them as well. "to expensive" "Too much hype" "Don't like the sales model" "Don't like the collectors" etc. Do I stop buying them? Nope.

    I have to say, the CS knife I had with the VG1 core blade really performed excellent. Probably the best edge retention on any knife I had for years and years. The edge really held up well under chopping and general camp use as well. Really got a lot of use out of that Trailmaster with the Sanmai blade. The only thing that kept it from being ideal for me was the Krayton handle. Too soft and "grabby" under extended use. I much prefer Resiprine C. Much firmer, but still nice and shock absorbing.

    Aus8 that CS uses is not super steel, but it is a great basic stainless that has good edge retention and corrosion resistance under my extended uses. Never had a rust issue, even when using a Recon1 folder as my white water knife either. Swimming with it on etc, no problems.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
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