Why do knife snobs hate Cold Steel??

[RafaelHerschel]

Ok, so similar knives with better steel but no specific candidates. Seems to me you have an opinion, but no relevant information to back it up.

It seems to me anyone who is complaining about Cold Steel being so terrible are just into folding knives.

I will concede that yes, the old Voyager(VG-1) would have not been my pick over a Kershaw either for EDC, regardless of steel. If I were into the tacfolder, but I am not.

Folders are just the tip of the iceburg in the CS catalog, other manufacturers it is the entire table of contents. Great if you like folders, not so much if you are looking for something more.

BTW everybody SMIII is the premium CS material, not AUS8 anymore.

Spyderco Delica 4 Flat Ground FRN- 89,95 list price
- VG-10 steel (better knife steel than VG-1 used for the Voyager line)
- Flat ground
- skeletonized stainless steel liners

Spyderco Endura 4 FRN- 94,95 list price
- VG-10 steel (better knife steel than VG-1 used for the Voyager line)
- skeletonized stainless steel liners

Spyderco Pacific Salt Black FRN- 99,50 list price
- H-1 steel (will not rust!)

I'm also a big fan of the Benchmade Griptilian, mostly because of the ecellent grip that is provided by the handle.

Compare to:

Cold Steel Recon I- 104,99 list price
- according to the website: a standard that is hard to beat- Aus 8A (not bad, but not as good as VG-10 and not a 100% rustproof steel like H-1)
- Teflon coating (value depends on personal taste)

Cold steel folders that use Aus8A:
Recon
American Lawman
Espada
Spartan
Rajah
Ti-Lite

Fixed blades?Check out Fallkniven. Expensive but real quality.

I own about 70 decent knives. Mostly in the 50,- to 250,- range. Some of those knives are made by Cold Steel and I have handled (worked with) Cold Steel fixed blades that are owned by a friend of mine. Otherwise it’s mostly Spyderco and Benchmade for folders, Ka-Bar and Buck for inexpensive fixed blades and Fallkniven for slightly more expensive knives.

I can say that although my experience with Cold Steel is not bad, it’s not a brand I recommend to friends, simply because there is a lot of choice out there. Widely available brands like Spyderco, Benchmade and Fallkniven provide (at least in my opinion) better quality and/or better value for money.

 

[Ankerson]

Spyderco Delica 4 Flat Ground FRN- 89,95 list price
- VG-10 steel (better knife steel than VG-1 used for the Voyager line)
- Flat ground
- skeletonized stainless steel liners

Spyderco Endura 4 FRN- 94,95 list price
- VG-10 steel (better knife steel than VG-1 used for the Voyager line)
- skeletonized stainless steel liners

Spyderco Pacific Salt Black FRN- 99,50 list price
- H-1 steel (will not rust!)

I'm also a big fan of the Benchmade Griptilian, mostly because of the ecellent grip that is provided by the handle.

Compare to:

Cold Steel Recon I- 104,99 list price
- according to the website: a standard that is hard to beat- Aus 8A (not bad, but not as good as VG-10 and not a 100% rustproof steel like H-1)
- Teflon coating (value depends on personal taste)

Cold steel folders that use Aus8A:
Recon
American Lawman
Espada
Spartan
Rajah
Ti-Lite

Fixed blades?Check out Fallkniven. Expensive but real quality.

I own about 70 decent knives. Mostly in the 50,- to 250,- range. Some of those knives are made by Cold Steel and I have handled (worked with) Cold Steel fixed blades that are owned by a friend of mine. Otherwise it’s mostly Spyderco and Benchmade for folders, Ka-Bar and Buck for inexpensive fixed blades and Fallkniven for slightly more expensive knives.

I can say that although my experience with Cold Steel is not bad, it’s not a brand I recommend to friends, simply because there is a lot of choice out there. Widely available brands like Spyderco, Benchmade and Fallkniven provide (at least in my opinion) better quality and/or better value for money.

VG-10 isn't noticeably better than VG-1 in real world use from what I have seen over the years.

VG-1 is tougher than VG-10 from my experience and will hold an edge just as long.

Both are great steels though.

 

[RafaelHerschel]

VG-10 isn't noticeably better than VG-1 in real world use from what I have seen over the years.

VG-1 is tougher than VG-10 from my experience and will hold as edge just as long.

Both are great steels though.

Fair enough.

 

[cziv]

I'd like to see Spyderco's lock breaking testing machine in action, testing a wide range of brands and models.

That would be cool but I'd like to see them bent in a vice, weights hung on handles, slammed through car doors....etc like CS does more. :thumbup:

 

[xmtgx]

That would be cool but I'd like to see them bent in a vice, weights hung on handles, slammed through car doors....etc like CS does more. :thumbup:

Do they ever show the blade after the bend in any of the videos? I always see they bend to like 70 degrees then cut the clip to another torture test.
I also wonder how many blades they destroy making the videos

 

[marthinus]

That would be cool but I'd like to see them bent in a vice, weights hung on handles, slammed through car doors....etc like CS does more. :thumbup:

Do they ever show the blade after the bend in any of the videos? I always see they bend to like 70 degrees then cut the clip to another torture test.
I also wonder how many blades they destroy making the videos

Look at my reply nr. 190 on this regard

 

[cziv]

Well at least the ones in the videos don't snap when bent or in the vice or in the car hood. One can only wonder on how many failures there are. They have to cut off to go to the next segment of the video.

 

[waynejitsu]

Just thinking out loud here...,
For arguments sake, let's say CS does pass all the "torture" tests, the vise-bend your knife test, cutting car doors, hanging weights on a folder, etc, etc.
Now, let's say "no other knife" will pass those tests.
Now, let's say ALL the other knives cut better, slice better, hold an edge longer, etc, etc.
Isn't a knife made for cutting more than taking a hammer to?

As an example, a good friend of mine, which I have not spoke to in years (he moved away, then years later, moved back), carried a CS knife. I think mostly because I used to always talk about them 20 or so years ago.
I gave him a Kershaw Cyclone.
He no longer carries the CS after using the Cyclone.

Maybe I would still carry a CS "if" I wanted a knife to just abuse, however, since I want a knife to mostly "cut", I carry a Benchmade, Kershaw, Buck, Emerson, Bradley, etc.

 

[Ankerson]

Just thinking out loud here...,
For arguments sake, let's say CS does pass all the "torture" tests, the vise-bend your knife test, cutting car doors, hanging weights on a folder, etc, etc.
Now, let's say "no other knife" will pass those tests.
Now, let's say ALL the other knives cut better, slice better, hold an edge longer, etc, etc.
Isn't a knife made for cutting more than taking a hammer to?

As an example, a good friend of mine, which I have not spoke to in years (he moved away, then years later, moved back), carried a CS knife. I think mostly because I used to always talk about them 20 or so years ago.
I gave him a Kershaw Cyclone.
He no longer carries the CS after using the Cyclone.

Maybe I would still carry a CS "if" I wanted a knife to just abuse, however, since I want a knife to mostly "cut", I carry a Benchmade, Kershaw, Buck, Emerson, Bradley, etc.

I hope you are not implying that CS knives won't cut.

 

[waynejitsu]

I hope you are not implying that CS knives won't cut.

No more than I am saying you can not put another knife in a vise or hang weights from it

Some knives and blades do some things better than others.
I prefer a knife that cuts better and longer than a knife that can bend a bit more...

 

[Zombie Zeke]

Endura < Recon 1

Manix 2 >Recon 1

I think that simple little equation should help for the toughness of stabbing through car doors brigade and the holes of thumbs brotherhood.

Seriously though the Busse folder beats everything, in the world, forever.

 

[Ankerson]

No more than I am saying you can not put another knife in a vise or hang weights from it

Some knives and blades do some things better than others.
I prefer a knife that cuts better and longer than a knife that can bend a bit more...

Bending/ Flexing has to do with tempering... Stiffness or flexibility can be controlled in the tempering process.

Phil Wilson makes Fillet knives out of S90V that will flex very well and hold an edge for a very, very, very, very long time. But then they are customs so that's different, but you get my point.

 

[waynejitsu]

Bending/ Flexing has to do with tempering... Stiffness or flexibility can be controlled in the tempering process.

Phil Wilson makes Fillet knives out of S90V that will flex very well and hold an edge for a very, very, very, very long time. But then they are customs so that's different, but you get my point.

Yes, so the "point" of having a knife is to "cut".
Why not do a Cut Test.
If CS was that good, I would think they would take other knives and do a side by side slice and cut test using their production knives vs other production knives.
Then, they would have "proof".
Comparing your own products is fine and every marketing scheme states they are the best, however, the only way to know is to do a side by side test that is consistent and repeatable without any variables.
Any company can "stage" a "proof test" to show they have the "best product".
I can say I am "the best" at Jiu-Jitsu, however, competition is the only way to find your strengths and weaknesses and then make improvements.
If you only compete against yourself, you will always win, LOL!!
(get the point?

 

[Gator97]

VG-10 isn't noticeably better than VG-1 in real world use from what I have seen over the years.

VG-1 is tougher than VG-10 from my experience and will hold an edge just as long.

It really depends on what you are doing in the real world and how. VG-10 has higher working hardness. At least based on what I see in real world knives. Having thin edges on both would show the difference quite well.

 

[A.P.F.]

No more than I am saying you can not put another knife in a vise or hang weights from it

Some knives and blades do some things better than others.
I prefer a knife that cuts better and longer than a knife that can bend a bit more...

It really depends on what you are doing in the real world and how. VG-10 has higher working hardness. At least based on what I see in real world knives. Having thin edges on both would show the difference quite well.

I think that the issues here are 'application' and preference'. I, like many others here, have knives with a great variety of steels. As I enjoy the woods, my personal preference leans toward toughness and a steel that I can easily touch up in the field. As a result, AUS8, 420HC, 440C, VG-1 and their ilk, all share a favored place in my collection.

There are no bad steels, just non-appropriate applications, IMO.

 

[seniormcblade]

abuse and real world use are a absolute opposite. im not slamming my knives through a car door"they are not cheap and my name is not rockefeller" whats missing here?

joey

 

[Ankerson]

Yes, so the "point" of having a knife is to "cut".
Why not do a Cut Test.
If CS was that good, I would think they would take other knives and do a side by side slice and cut test using their production knives vs other production knives.
Then, they would have "proof".
Comparing your own products is fine and every marketing scheme states they are the best, however, the only way to know is to do a side by side test that is consistent and repeatable without any variables.
Any company can "stage" a "proof test" to show they have the "best product".
I can say I am "the best" at Jiu-Jitsu, however, competition is the only way to find your strengths and weaknesses and then make improvements.
If you only compete against yourself, you will always win, LOL!!
(get the point?

Nobody does that.

That would be trampling on another Companies product on video, not good form in anyone's book.

CS has done cutting videos, they are on YT.

It really depends on what you are doing in the real world and how. VG-10 has higher working hardness. At least based on what I see in real world knives. Having thin edges on both would show the difference quite well.

I have thinned both out over the years and like I said VG-1 is tougher and you won't notice the difference in edge holding in real use. They are very close in edge retention, close enough to be hard to really see the difference in day to day use.

 

[cziv]

I have thinned both out over the years and like I said VG-1 is tougher and you won't notice the difference in edge holding in real use. They are very close in edge retention, close enough to be hard to really see the difference in day to day use.

I watched BLUNTRUTH doing a convex sharpening video on his Master Hunter and he said that CS VG-1 was tough stuff and a bear to re-profile.

 

[Ankerson]

I watched BLUNTRUTH doing a convex sharpening video on his Master Hunter and he said that CS VG-1 was tough stuff and a bear to re-profile.

Not on my Edge Pro it's not, it eats steel like ZDP etc for breakfast so VG-1 is no problem.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I love my CS knifes, hell the two most prized knifes I own are two CS safekeeper 1's which are freakishly scary big and retardedly awesome. I hope I never have to use them but if I do, who ever is on the receiving end is not gonna like it...

as for lynn, I'm just scared he will have a heart attack and they will stop producing wonderful knifes at a competitive price. The fact is a knife is a knife and it doesnt really matter who is pushing them; as long as they are sharp as hell and well made, thats what makes it a good knife and all those who disagree can suck it!

As for the warrenty, I have yet to see a CS fail. I figure if your using a knife so hard that it fails you probally are abusing it and probally got your moneys worth, espeically if its a fixed blade. Unless it snaps in half while your cutting a peice of steak in half, your probally using a knife too hard. It's called a knife, not a pry bar!

Those who dont like CS, dont buy them. I mean nobody is putting a gun to your head a telling you to spend your money on something you dont like.

I have owned and used lots of CS knives. I had never had a problem with one till I bought two Black Rhino's.

The lock spring worked forward and dented the edge, then the knife would not close all the way.

I sent it back and they sent me a new one (three months or so later.....they told me they were buys with their big sale).

The new one, same thing. The lock spring has now moved forward and is denting the edge and keeping it from closing all the way. I took the knife apart to check it out and see how to fix it.

It is fixable, but I should not have to "fix" a new knife. I also noticed that the pivot hole looks peened, or keyholed almost, and the knife has seen no real use.

I am going to sent it back again, and get another, and then fix the spring with a bit of epoxy so it stays put.

Love the blade shape and size for sure.

The knife from CS I am really loving a lot right now is the pocket bushman. It is the folding version that they "fixed" with the straight milled channel. Really neat little blade. Wish it was offered with a more performance steel, I would pay more for one.

The bottom line is just buy what you like, and use it.

Yes, I have higher end knives. Most my fixed blades are Busse, and people like to crap on them as well. "to expensive" "Too much hype" "Don't like the sales model" "Don't like the collectors" etc. Do I stop buying them? Nope.

VG-10 isn't noticeably better than VG-1 in real world use from what I have seen over the years.

VG-1 is tougher than VG-10 from my experience and will hold an edge just as long.

Both are great steels though.

I have to say, the CS knife I had with the VG1 core blade really performed excellent. Probably the best edge retention on any knife I had for years and years. The edge really held up well under chopping and general camp use as well. Really got a lot of use out of that Trailmaster with the Sanmai blade. The only thing that kept it from being ideal for me was the Krayton handle. Too soft and "grabby" under extended use. I much prefer Resiprine C. Much firmer, but still nice and shock absorbing.

Aus8 that CS uses is not super steel, but it is a great basic stainless that has good edge retention and corrosion resistance under my extended uses. Never had a rust issue, even when using a Recon1 folder as my white water knife either. Swimming with it on etc, no problems.