Why secondary and micro bevels?

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silver_pilate said:
I don't know. Perhaps some of the frustration Del has experienced comes from opinions that multiple makers have proffered to answer the original question which boils down to geometry and the intended cutting task. After those answers, there are comments like:

"I don't think there is a consensus on the subject"
"so far, I don't understand"
"I really don't understand why secondary bevels are used at all"
"the question remains, why not just use a single bevel to zero"
"again, why are they used"

Then again, maybe we're all being duped by a conspiracy to preserve microbevels. :) I can see the utility of a simple scandi grind, but the function (and aesthetics) of a small secondary (micro) bevel make that knife preferred to me.

BMK, I appreciate your desire to learn and the fact that you're asking questions that most people do not. Please be patient with us as we strive to be patient with you :D.

--nathan
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I've said it once, I'll say it again, BMK is a troll. and should be fed to the sharks for exactly this type of behavior. There comes a point when the annoying 6 y/o "But Why?" questions need to be put to rest. Especially after MANY sufficient and obvious answers have been given.

Jason
 
Nathan,

Your mention of "aesthetics" is an important part of the conundrum we have been discussing. On a good day, I can make a minimalist knife that functions. Many of you guys make art in the form of knives. Flat, hollow and complex grinds give you greater artistic liberty.

silver_pilate said:
I don't know. Perhaps some of the frustration Del has experienced comes from opinions that multiple makers have proffered to answer the original question which boils down to geometry and the intended cutting task. After those answers, there are comments like:

"I don't think there is a consensus on the subject"
"so far, I don't understand"
"I really don't understand why secondary bevels are used at all"
"the question remains, why not just use a single bevel to zero"
"again, why are they used"

Then again, maybe we're all being duped by a conspiracy to preserve microbevels. :) I can see the utility of a simple scandi grind, but the function (and aesthetics) of a small secondary (micro) bevel make that knife preferred to me.

BMK, I appreciate your desire to learn and the fact that you're asking questions that most people do not. Please be patient with us as we strive to be patient with you :D.

--nathan
Click to expand...
 
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Fluidsteel,

You seem to have a pretty good fix on primate behavior and the ability to asses all this monkey business. My social skills rehabilitation force (SSRF) has grown into a small army - would you care to join? Before doing so, I would like to see you participate in some form of counseling regarding your growing fond of someone like me.

fluidsteel said:
Lol. I think it's a general consensus that Bushmonkey loves to stir the pot. I think the other thing to be remembered is that he has thick skin. Likely thicker than most people on here actually. So it will usually be other people being upset, not him.


I was offended by his attitude early on but have grown fond of him.

We can't all like the same knives, blades, edges. It appeared to me Del was just frustrated with Monkey asking, and arguing the same point without appearing to actually respond in an informational way to anybody's opinion that didn't reaffirm that his way was the best way.

I do appreciate the post though, as blade geometry is a very interesting subject that can be gone over again and again.

And Daniel.... Mmmmmmmm...... I might have to crawl over the San Juans the next time I'm down to visit my aunt in Sedalia.. Only a few 12,000 footers between her house and yours if I recall correctly.
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Jay,

We have been discussing angles, degrees and blade design. I think that many would agree that my question had merit and precipitated healthy discussion.

To an obtuse mind, everything is "sufficient and obvious". I am a nice guy so I will stop here.

JasonSCarter said:
I've said it once, I'll say it again, BMK is a troll. and should be fed to the sharks for exactly this type of behavior. There comes a point when the annoying 6 y/o "But Why?" questions need to be put to rest. Especially after MANY sufficient and obvious answers have been given.

Jason
Click to expand...
 
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I have to agree that BMK posts threads that tend to incite vehement discussion that sometimes descends into chaos. I have locked threads of his before. I don't know if he is a Troll, but can see how that name could be applied. I would describe his posting as childish and immature, bordering on OCD, but stopping short of being a Troll.
I think he likes to argue more than make knives. However,in defense of those who have complained to me, he has posted 22 times on this thread, and has mainly argued with those who answered his origional question....where he said he was a neophyte and didn't know the answer.

If this thread gets into name calling and such, it will get locked.
The best way to deal with a person you don't agree with or think is being annoying is to not answer the thread. If no one posts any more on this thread, it will be gone in two days. I think you might even be able to block seeing threads and posts by people you don't want to hear what they think by doing an "ignore".
We all have better things to do than feed BMK's ego, so just walk away from this thread.....and do not reply to any other threads by him.

The other thing you can do is report this ( or any other ) thread by hitting the "Report Thread" button. Send an additional post to Spark telling your concerns about BMK, with specifics. Spark regularly warns or bans such people.

I will monitor this thread and lock it if it gets ugly.
 
bladsmth said:
Wore the Kilt last week, but not in this 100 degree heat.

I thought that you were being more of a nitt picker than normal. Glad to know you are still the somewhat normal PITA that you always were.
Click to expand...

I think its the heat.
I'm forging at night but can't quite figure out how to keep the flux from burning up my PJ's:)

I'm ready for fall:eek::eek::eek:
Fred
 
I had a discussion with a maker last year at an eastern show and the topic was similar to this one. He showed me a blade that had been con-vexed but with a hollow ground edge. He said it was the best of both designs; strength plus a great edge.

Theres a first time for everything.

Fred
 
Am I supposed to believe that precipitating "vehement discussion" is a bad thing? My question has merit, it began an ardent and enthusiastic discussion, and made many members think about some very fundamental elements of blade design and function. If you don't like people questioning "conventional wisdom", just say so. At any rate, thank you for sharing your opinions with us.

bladsmth said:
I have to agree that BMK posts threads that tend to incite vehement discussion that sometimes descends into chaos. I have locked threads of his before. I don't know if he is a Troll, but can see how that name could be applied. I would describe his posting as childish and immature, bordering on OCD, but stopping short of being a Troll.
I think he likes to argue more than make knives. However,in defense of those who have complained to me, he has posted 22 times on this thread, and has mainly argued with those who answered his origional question....where he said he was a neophyte and didn't know the answer.

If this thread gets into name calling and such, it will get locked.
The best way to deal with a person you don't agree with or think is being annoying is to not answer the thread. If no one posts any more on this thread, it will be gone in two days. I think you might even be able to block seeing threads and posts by people you don't want to hear what they think by doing an "ignore".
We all have better things to do than feed BMK's ego, so just walk away from this thread.....and do not reply to any other threads by him.

The other thing you can do is report this ( or any other ) thread by hitting the "Report Thread" button. Send an additional post to Spark telling your concerns about BMK, with specifics. Spark regularly warns or bans such people.

I will monitor this thread and lock it if it gets ugly.
Click to expand...
 
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Fred.Rowe said:
He showed me a blade that had been con-vexed but with a hollow ground edge. He said it was the best of both designs; strength plus a great edge.
Click to expand...

Is that the same guy who made the Trailing-Clipped-Drop-Point-Dagger-Skninner-Bowie? That design made him rich... I hear he drives a Hummervette, now.:D:thumbup:
 
BMK said:
Fluidsteel,

You seem to have a pretty good fix on primate behavior and the ability to asses all this monkey business. My social skills rehabilitation force (SSRF) has grown into a small army - would you care to join? Before doing so, I would like to see you participate in some form of counseling regarding your growing fond of someone like me.
Click to expand...

Actually, I see a therapist every Thursday... seems like I needed help getting along with people better.... Hmmmm, SSRF, Sounds like a line I could use to pick up women.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Would I get a shoulder patch to wear? Wait.... I wouldn't want to be accused of being a fake special forces soldier..... LMAO. :D

Yes, your threads usually merit discussion, but you go about it in a combative way, usually after the first couple differing viewpoints. And continue...... :thumbdn:
 
Rick Marchand said:
Is that the same guy who made the Trailing-Clipped-Drop-Point-Dagger-Skninner-Bowie? That design made him rich... I hear he drives a Hummervette, now.:D:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thats the one. I gave it a try and even with my bubble reference I could not duplicate it.

Well its beer o'clock I'm going to go sit in the AC and ponder life.

Fred
 
BMK said:


Your mention of "aesthetics" is an important part of the conundrum we have been discussing. On a good day, I can make a minimalist knife that functions. Many of you guys make art in the form of knives. Flat, hollow and complex grinds give you greater artistic liberty.
Click to expand...

:confused::confused::confused:
 
BMK said:
I don't think there is a consensus on the subject.
Click to expand...

Still don’t see the consensus, huh?

Let me make it real easy:

#1. No one agrees with you!

#2. Knifemakers use a wide variety of geometries for a wide variety of reasons, performance generally being high on the scale of importance.

#3. Most makers would rather be drinking someone else’s beer,... whomsoever has the most and greatest.
 
Tai Goo said:
Still don’t see the consensus, huh?

Let me make it real easy:

#1. No one agrees with you!

#2. Knifemakers use a wide variety of geometries for a wide variety of reasons, performance generally being high on the scale of importance.

#3. Most makers would rather be drinking someone else’s beer,... whomsoever has the most and greatest.
Click to expand...

If nothing else I assume we have a consensus on number 3. I'll bring the snacks.
Fred
 
Fred.Rowe said:
I spent a lot of years running long hand closures on surveys; I loved it when
they tallied 1 part in 30,000.
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Long hand survey closures? did you keep field notes on a scroll, too? Just kidding Fred, I can do closures longhand but least squares adjustment in CAD is a lot quicker, lol. Nice to see a fellow surveyor making knives, btw

randy
 
BMK said:
Flat, hollow and complex grinds give you greater artistic liberty.
Click to expand...

Do you sincerely believe that is why there are different grinds?

or

Does making that statement make you feel OK with only doing one grind?


Saying you are a neophyte and then arguing with everyone is odd to say the least, to each their own but... you should print out this thread and take it to your social group and see what they think.
 
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