Why secondary and micro bevels?

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Tai Goo said:
James,... We won't psychoanalyze you if you don't psychoanalyze us.
I'll bring some of my "anti-chi" homemade incense sticks... Cool!
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Thanks, I'd love to drink and grind and hammer with you guys! Lorien can pick me up on his way down from Canada. Tai, I can do without incense, but bring some of whatever the heck you've been smoking all these years :D
 
Guys!

It wasn’t me!

Rick derailed this thread as soon as he suggested beer was a fruit!…. He knew I couldn’t let that pass and I foolishly took the bait.

… I hope this doesn’t ruin my career!
 
I will be posting a map shortly - X marks the spot. Bring your own lawn chairs, we have none, they were eaten by the dogs.

If you require medical attention bring your own doctor along with a lawn chair for him/her.

Before the celebration begins we will cage the yard dogs; they have a hard time digesting humans from our western regions. Gives them gas.

Anyway all are welcome to attend if you feel lucky, Fred

PS You have a reputation?
 
james terrio said:
Thanks, I'd love to drink and grind and hammer with you guys! Lorien can pick me up on his way down from Canada. Tai, I can do without incense, but bring some of whatever the heck you've been smoking all these years :D
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now if we could get some 'BC IncenseTM' down there for this party, we'd be rocking, uh... or, um, what did I just say? Seriously, I forgot.
 
Tai Goo said:
I don't know Jason,... from my observations most of the best and most successful knifemakers in the world are pretty whacked out... OCD or whatever.
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Now there is some wisdom and I would include most of the long time collectors too. :D.

Oh and Tai, Can I come?

gus
 
Fred.Rowe said:
1960 I found myself on a crew running control for the new interstate highway system. Working outside was great and I loved the math involved. I carried basic trig functions in my head and ran curves without a sheet.

Wouldn't you agree that the years spent surveying is an asset when it comes to making knives?

Fred
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Yes, I think surveying helps with my knife making. First, it pays my bills and insurance and pays for materials and tools. :)
The trig and understanding angles definitely helps too. I should have known the Bubble Jig inventor has a surveyors background. lol
 
Rick Marchand said:
That you can't produce without a jig... am I right? How long have you be grinding your own blades and testing them over a wide variety of tasks?

The W&SS knife challanges test blades under many conditions, doing various tasks from heavy chopping and batonning to delicate food prep. Nothing against the fine makers, but a scandi grind hasn't finished well yet. Not that they did poorly across the board... they are a specialty blade, not a wide spectrum utility.

To give you an idea of something you would think wouldn't work but does....

I was always afraid to show what type of grind I did for fear of being criticised about my angles. Now having done the testing myself, entering as many public contests as I could and offering up my blades for peer review, I feel confident enough to let it all hang out. Basically, I do the most shallow convex grind I can and knock the burr off at a steeper angle than the norm...

Bladegeometry2011.png
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That's a great grind, IMO.
 
Here's the map to Fred's. You're all welcome to come on over, whenever you please... :)

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Thanks for your great diagram that looks like an outstanding bevel for a wide range of tasks. Your design appears to be a convex bevel with reduced curvature.
I have been making knives for about 4 months now and its time to start turning out some convex beveled blades.

I have not conducted any testing. I don't know what testing an 01 blade, scandi beveled and heat treated by peter's service would accomplish. I am using methods that are proven and designs that I know work based on my experience using tools.

Insofar as jigs are concerned: Jigs, in any application are capable of repeated precision and tolerances that exceed that of a human hand. I use jigs and don't think they are evil.

Jeff


Rick Marchand said:
That you can't produce without a jig... am I right? How long have you be grinding your own blades and testing them over a wide variety of tasks?

The W&SS knife challanges test blades under many conditions, doing various tasks from heavy chopping and batonning to delicate food prep. Nothing against the fine makers, but a scandi grind hasn't finished well yet. Not that they did poorly across the board... they are a specialty blade, not a wide spectrum utility.


To give you an idea of something you would think wouldn't work but does....

I was always afraid to show what type of grind I did for fear of being criticised about my angles. Now having done the testing myself, entering as many public contests as I could and offering up my blades for peer review, I feel confident enough to let it all hang out. Basically, I do the most shallow convex grind I can and knock the burr off at a steeper angle than the norm...

Bladegeometry2011.png
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BMK said:
I have not conducted any testing.
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Then you're flying completely blind. I would assume/hope that you've used knives a fair amount and aren't just copying what you think is most popular, and easy to build a jig for.

A point that I don't think has been mentioned is that scandi ground knives are very cheap to make. The design lends itself well to mass-production and $15 knives that are essentially disposable; re-sharpening techniques are practically moot.. (although you will see a lot of guys putting $100 of materials and mods onto a $15 Mora... but I digress...)

Make four blades of the same material and same dimensions, and grind one full convex, one scandi, one full-flat and one hollow. Use them all for whatever tasks your design is intended for. Your questions will answer themselves.

Actually you could make eight, the four above with micro-bevels, and then four more with true zero grinds.
 
Why would anyone test anything that was designed and fabricated by tested and proven methods? Test what?

01 tool steel
Peter's heat treat
if a scandi bevel works
I already know what works in terms of knife design

Test what???


james terrio said:
Then you're flying completely blind. I would assume/hope that you've used knives a fair amount and aren't just copying what you think is most popular, and easy to build a jig for.

A point that I don't think has been mentioned is that scandi ground knives are very cheap to make. The design lends itself well to mass-production and $15 knives that are essentially disposable; re-sharpening techniques are practically moot.. (although you will see a lot of guys putting $100 of materials and mods onto a $15 Mora... but I digress...)

Make four blades of the same material and same dimensions, and grind one full convex, one scandi, one full-flat and one hollow. Use them all for whatever tasks you designed them for. Your questions will answer themselves.

Actually you could make eight, the four above with micro-bevels, and then four more with true zero grinds.
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So your design process and manufacturing methods are based on what, heresay? Because you read a magazine article? Why even ask these fellows, then? If you don't want answers, don't ask.
 
BMK said:
Thanks for your great diagram that looks like an outstanding bevel for a wide range of tasks. Your design appears to be a convex bevel with reduced curvature.
I have been making knives for about 4 months now. I have not conducted any testing. I don't know what testing an 01 blade, scandi beveled and heat treated by peter's service would accomplish. I am using methods that are proven and designs that I know work based on my experience using tools.
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Fair enough. If you have been using knives with the same geometry for years, I would say you have the right to call it a proven design. You are using equipment that can give you repeatable results and Peter's is a reputable HT company. I guess the only variable is your profile ergonomics... they look like comfortable users. It is safe to say you have a good product Monkey-Nutz.

I'm trying to wrap my head around why you lead these threads in the direction that you do. If only you would state your opinion... "I make my knives THIS way because I think it is the best I can do with what I know...... How' bout you?" Then let the discussion begin. If JoeMaker tells you that scandis are a limited use grind, it is only one guy's opinion. If someone offers up an alternative point of view, it is an oportunity to learn.... if not... let it slide and move on. Your goal should't be to change everybody's way of thinking to your own. If you truly believe that there is only one way to do things.... It would be a shame, because you'll never grow with that kind of closemindedness (is that a word?).
 
James,

I don't read blade magazines and I am not guided by hearsay.

Again, I have used knives and tools. I know what works and what does not work. I design and fabricate tools that work.

I am sorry if this offends people who spent the better part of their adult lives making knives.

Jeff
 
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