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1095 (produced by stock-removal by a company) is OVER-PRICED!!!!!

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by J.Davey, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. DeadboxHero


    Mar 22, 2014
    I think you need to go make stuff so you understand the design choices, comprimises and cost associated with building a product.

    Until then, it's impossible to discuss this topic and we might as well argue about what our favorite ice cream favor is.

    Which by the way, chocolate is the best, all other favors are inferior :D

    If only companies would catch on and stop ripping people off with other flavors :p
    19-3ben likes this.
  2. armytxn


    Dec 28, 2009
    J. Davey, it all comes down to what you are looking for. There is an American company that manufactures Product "A". This company produces this product that is 100% made in America. The product is made from materials that are midgrade: they are not the best but they are certainly not the worst.

    Another company produces a similar product. However, this company outsources to foreign manufacturers who are able to produce the product faster and cheaper. Because costs are low, the company is also able to use materials that are better.

    Both products do the exact same thing. Do you want something made in America but more expensive or cheaper?
  3. coffeemike


    Jul 20, 2015
    Well, it's not like you gave us much to go on. In nearly as many words: "I think 1095-based knives are WAY overpriced. Convince me otherwise."

    Problem is, I don't *know* you. I don't know what you carry a knife for, how you use it, what your history is, what you want it to do, et cetera. None - none! - of this is objective.

    Objectively: A knife is a piece of (usually) metal that somebody has rubbed against (usually) stone until it's sharp enough to cut.

    Beyond that? It's all subjective - from ergonomics, to edge hardness vs. sharpening, to blade size, to the flame pattern etched on the side.
    19-3ben likes this.
  4. coffeemike


    Jul 20, 2015
    On second thought - take a 1095 knife blank and put it up against the tri-ad lock in Cold Steel's spine whack stress test. The CS knife will give WAY before the 1095 blank will. It's objectively better in that way, I suppose.
  5. Dangerously


    Jan 8, 2013
    You posted it in ALL CAPS!!!! WITH LOTS OF PUNCTUATION!!!! Like you're HYSTERICAL!!!

    And now you're lamenting that there are not more calm, sober, well thought out responses. I would suggest to model the tone that you would like in return.
    19-3ben likes this.
  6. Aias


    Aug 1, 2012
    Ha! You beat me to it! :D
  7. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    1095 is about the cheapest "real" high carbon steel you can buy. Just check the prices. That doesn't mean that it is bad. With that said, 56 Rc is not a "super secret heat treatment"to me. It is WAY too soft. If you need to leave your steel that soft to make it tough, you are probably using the wrong steel. But I would say the same thing about Randall using 440B at 54Rc. I have seen shop tour video from one these companies where they are heating up the edge of their knives in a forge and quenching dirty ass oil. "Hard to the core", perhaps, but not exactly super secret and certainly not "best methods"in 2017. ;)
  8. palonej

    palonej Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Aug 5, 2015

    So why did you start it then?? Especially the way you started it??
    Seems to me, it went exactly how you intended.
  9. Velitrius

    Velitrius Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    These exact words ran through my head when he posted that, Joe. Looked like a troll post to me from jump street.
  10. palonej

    palonej Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Agreed Vel.
  11. tbenedict


    Feb 9, 2010
    Along the same lines, I see a few quite reputable companies tending to stick with 154CM. It holds a good edge in my opinion and is probably a bit easier to maintain while away from home (or those that are deployed).

    A good shape, edge geometry, and heat treat on proven/well known steel may be a good trade. Probably more consistent from experience working with it too.
  12. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    So you don't want to address in of the problems with what you have said? Awesome waste of a thread....

    That is because the rest of us are not making over simplified blanket statement but rather are looking at this subject more rationally. You are not. So yeah, this is the way such threads go :thumbup:


    It's clearly strawberry though......

    Yup. We've seen this behavior before in relation to discussing 1095. Someone flies off the handle because a 1095 knife they like is too expensive for them so they start a hate thread on the stuff. Or they just want to stir the pot. Who knows, but poor irrational discourse (or lack of discourse) will always go the same way no matter the topic.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  13. marcinek


    Jan 9, 2007
    No, I believe what he is saying is that you are free to not like it and not buy it, but that doesnt mean people whose opinions of it dont match yours are wrong, or, as you put it, "unenlightened."

    I thought he did so with great tact.
  14. sabre cat

    sabre cat Basic Member Basic Member

    Jul 4, 2014
    Nope. Sorry. There is a reason that devil's food is a type of chocolate. It is clearly inferior.

    So is strawberry( I like it though).

    Vanilla, however, is heavenly. After all, angel food cake has vanilla as a main ingredient. :D

    As for 1095, all steels are a bunch of compromises. 1095 is no different. If it meets my needs and price point, I'll buy it even though I prefer 5160.

    My question is why the OP hates it?
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  15. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    Wow. You could view all advertising as "consumer manipulation". I am comfortable with 1095 and the older steels like D-2 and CPM 154. I am not going to try to convince anyone, I just tell people what I like or have used if they ask. How you spend your money is up to you.
  16. Cory Hess

    Cory Hess

    Jul 1, 2014
    I'm not a big fan of 1095 either. On the other hand, a lot of people who know a heck of a lot more than me like it quite a bit. I'm not inclined to assume that everybody that disagrees with me is wrong. I prefer to think that not every knife that's made is specifically marketed at me. If a knife doesn't suit me I assume that it was made with a different type of user in mind and go about my business. There really isn't anything to get upset about.
  17. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    CPM154 is not an "older" steel. It is a 1st gen PM version of 154CM/ATS34 and is most similar to RWL 34. The CPM process supposedly gives it significant increases impact resistance/toughness. It has less abrasion resistance than S30V or
    S35VN but is tougher than both.
  18. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    If I was going to produce a "tough knife" to a price point, I would use 5160 instead of 1095 because it is not only more suitable, but easier to work with. It costs a few pennies more than 1095,but the problem may be that it does not appear be readily available in thicknesses under about 1/4 inch. To be honest, I would probably use 80CrV2, low austenized 52100 or even 1080/84 over either of them.
  19. gadgetgeek


    May 19, 2007
    Because that horse is so long dead all that gets beaten is the ground it once trod on? Is anything worth anything? I'm not a metallurgist, engineer, or really expert in anything, so when someone builds a thing, I have to decide if I trust that they know what they are doing. They have made choices and set a price on that product. Now I might know enough to know if a thing will work for me or not, but at the end of the day, if the guy making the knife chose 1095 over something else, that's because he thought that was going to do what he wanted. Does 1095 have a bit more branding cache at the moment, sure it does, its easy to remember. At the end of the day the maker also has to sell the knife.

    If you want a knife in another steel, then go do that. If you don't want to spend 200$ on a 1095 blade then don't plenty of good, even great knives on the market in that steel that are well below that. So I'm not really sure what the complaint is. If it is that a company has priced themselves out of the market, well... wait and buy them at the liquidation sale.
  20. BladeScout

    BladeScout Basic Member Basic Member

    May 16, 2010
    First thread in GeeDee, which made me hungry.

    Ohh, and I happen to like 1095 just fine....ZDP189 as well for that matter.

    ....and turtles.

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