A 2016 Forum Knife. An apology, and The Crossroads!

[Woodrow F Call]

Not sure what you mean by that?
Isn't the 'PPP' etch something we could choose to have put on any new - or not so new - GEC pattern?

I think it's for the never been run before GEC patterns.

 

[Jack Black]

I think it's for the never been run before GEC patterns.

I thought it was slightly more ambiguous - I forget the poster who previously explained how the system actually worked in practice, one of our dealers, possibly Mike L (apologies if I'm mistaken Mike)? :thumbup:

 

[neal70]

SupraT-thanks! the robeson with the punch was the knife i was thinking of, but the last two in post #290 are precisely what i was thinking of. the schatt & morgan photo was posted by R8shll either here or the original thread. they can still be had for around $100+(is that gauche? sorry if so). before i forget thank you Stonebeard that makes sense now, i appreciate it. SupraT and all, i really like the scan from the 1910 catalog, it has a greater "roundness" to it than does the more recent s & m. i'm curious as to whether folks would like this better flatter, say as seen from the end, or if they would find rounder more comfortable. thanks , Neal

 

[FLymon]

PPP stands for "Premier Pattern Production", the first production run of a new pattern.

 

[pertinux]

I thought it was slightly more ambiguous - I forget the poster who previously explained how the system actually worked in practice, one of our dealers, possibly Mike L (apologies if I'm mistaken Mike)? :thumbup:

PPP stands for "Premier Pattern Production", the first production run of a new pattern.

Jack, I think you may be thinking of GEC's "Prototype" etch...? That one has been proven to be used (in)discriminately, or at least, not in the manner the word would suggest, but rather with one to three knives from a general run being plucked to receive the etch.

The PPP etch on the other hand is, as FLymon states, applied to the first production run of a new pattern.

As a recent example, the drop point #83 Tascosa lockbacks received the PPP etch. The clip point #83s, following hard after, did not-- they were not the premier of the pattern.

~ P.

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks for the explanation P, much appreciated :thumbup:

 

[Vinifera]

I can get behind a 3 3/4" cattle knife . The lambs foot wasnt doing it for me.

Same here.

 

[iamdb]

What about a doctors knife with the spatula? (broken shell extractor)

 

[SA Condor]

On an equal end, I'd love to see a different blade profile then the spear. It's super common on an EE. Let's go for different! I still like the Lambfoot because it's something different that we here in America haven't had a taste of.

 

[neal70]

i wouldn't be opposed at all to a different blade then a spear(i'm only carrying three at the moment). i'm just not quite sure what it should be-something like a lambsfoot or something that used to be used, say a hundred years ago, that has since fallen out of favor. thoughts everybody?(this means you SupraT, Jack Black, and others of your knowledge and persuasion ) thanks, Neal post script:have we talked about pulls yet? long ,short, nail nick,pinchable,eo's,dare one dream match strike! just puttin' it out there

 

[supratentorial]

A spear fits extremely well and can follow the contour of the handle but a clip is also traditional on an equal end pattern. A full size clip blade will stick out more. A slim clip blade can be buried in the handle but it will be a bit underbladed. It's a matter of preference. I think a spear is the best match.

For an equal end knife with 2 blades on 1 or 2 springs, we pretty much hit the uncommon patterns. Regular jacks and double-end jacks are bread and butter patterns and GEC will undoubtedly make those knives. A sheepfoot secondary like the Northwoods Presidential would be less common but we did something similar last year. The harness jack and caplifter are relatively uncommon patterns on a knife with a single spring. That's why I find them the most interesting. I don't know if Charlie would want to keep runs of the harness jacks for himself. He's done them for a long time. When we did the 85 pattern for the forum knife, he piggy backed and did a run of harness jacks on the 85 frame. For these reasons, my pick would be a caplifter exactly like the Robeson but slightly larger to accommodate the new 3 3/4" equal end.

If we do go with 3 blades than either a split backspring whittler or a cattle knife would be good options. I suspect that GEC will make them anyway though. We could do a cattle knife with Blues' (Elliot's) preferred combo of blades (spear, sheepfoot, small clip)--that would be uncommon.

 

[supratentorial]

Regarding the lambsfoot... I think if we go that route we need to be as traditional as possible and use a frame smaller than the 47 pattern. Honestly, the main appeal of the lambsfoot is that Jack wants it and it would be nice to accommodate. I think just throwing it on a 47 frame would be a miss though. I don't know if GEC would be willing to make a smaller version of the 47. They could use it for their Vipers and Hay'n Helpers also. But they just ran those knives. Jack is the lambsfoot expert so I defer to him but I think we'd need a curved handle that's around 3.5". That would also be a perfect handle for a "carpenter's knife" which is something that I'd like GEC to make as well.

 

[Jack Black]

I like 2-blade penknives with single springs, but for 2-blade jacks I prefer to have a spring per blade (the main reason that last year's single-spring 2-blade jack didn't appeal to me.) Putting two blades on one spring is like putting both your eggs in one basket to me, and while the old cutlers had the skill to avoid blade-rub, that's not often the case with modern factory-built knives.

The Lambsfoot would work on a single spring as a single blade knife, but if it were to have a pen, it would need an additional spring. I think GEC have a number of existing frames which would accommodate both options :thumbup: Incidentally, my first preference, as last year, has always been for a large Sheepsfoot, not a Lambsfoot, but I think a Lambsfoot would have a lot going for it as a forum knife since it's more than just a traditional pattern, it's an entirely different blade, which most US members will not have experienced.

I do actually have a Richards single-spring knife with a combination bottle-opener and a spearpoint eek but the spring is worn at one end because the bottle-opener was clearly used more than the blade, so it sort of flops about (I actually bought it for the parts) Edit - Just to add that my only objection to a combination tool on a pattern it fits historically, is simply that we've already had a forum knife with such a tool, and quite recently. I also doubt we'd match that knife (the tool maybe) :thumbup:

 

[Jack Black]

Honestly, the main appeal of the lambsfoot is that Jack wants it and it would be nice to accommodate.

Sorry Jake, we were typing at the same time I certainly wouldn't want people to choose a forum knife just because I like it! I'd be surprised if that's why other members have supported the Lambsfoot proposal (particularly as it wasn't my first choice)! I think the Lambsfoot will have a very strong appeal to anyone whose used one, and clearly to some who haven't. In my opinion, it's a very beautiful, classic blade shape, and the most versatile of all the straight-edged bladed knives. Not only is it difficult to obtain in the US, but a really good quality one is difficult to obtain anywhere. Moreover, it is entirely different to every other forum knife we've had :thumbup:

 

[SA Condor]

Not only is it difficult to obtain in the US, but a really good quality one is difficult to obtain anywhere. Moreover, it is entirely different to every other forum knife we've had :thumbup:

This sums up my feelings nicely on why I personally think it would make a great forum knife!

 

[supratentorial]

I was only speaking for myself. Others will have their own reasons (SA Condor for example^^). I'm not sure that you'd want me on your team though. Every year I ask for a sowbelly and every year there's no sowbelly. I'm may bring bad luck!!

I would actually find the lambsfoot much more interesting if we ordered them from Sheffield but that's a tall order. Likewise, I prefer that my Kentucky Bourbon isn't made in New York. (others will disagree http://vinepair.com/wine-blog/new-york-is-the-best-state-for-bourbon-right-now/) But I do know that GEC will do a good job.

What GEC frames did you have in mind?

 

[redsparrow]

It sounds like an equal end is more doable as a Forum knife for this year and that would be splendid.:thumbup: I'm partial to equal end patterns of most sorts and that's why I have several.

An advantage of the lambfoot blade is it's versatility and one made in the USA would be quite unique which should make it a good candidate for a Forum knife. Jack/Jake would a lambfoot on a straight frame such as 15, 77, or 68 still be traditional or is it necessary to have a swayback frame?

 

[Jack Black]

I was only speaking for myself. Others will have their own reasons (SA Condor for example^^). I'm not sure that you'd want me on your team though. Every year I ask for a sowbelly and every year there's no sowbelly. I'm may bring bad luck!!

I would actually find the lambsfoot much more interesting if we ordered them from Sheffield but that's a tall order. Likewise, I prefer that my Kentucky Bourbon isn't made in New York. (others will disagree http://vinepair.com/wine-blog/new-york-is-the-best-state-for-bourbon-right-now/) But I do know that GEC will do a good job.

What GEC frames did you have in mind?

LOL! OK, well thanks, that's very kind of you! :thumbup: So far, I've only liked the Stag Jack, so I'm not sure my luck is that good either! :thumbup:

One day I hope we can get a forum knife made in Sheffield, and really have thought about it, but even if we offered to pay them twice their usual rate, gave them a substantial order, and paid them in advance (which I'd prepared to cover), I know from experience that I'd have to watch over them while every single knife was made, and they'd still probably cock it up!

I'll have a look through the GEC patterns shortly, and let you know what I think :thumbup:

An advantage of the lambfoot blade is it's versatility and one made in the USA would be quite unique which should make it a good candidate for a Forum knife. Jack/Jake would a lambfoot on a straight frame such as 15, 77, or 68 still be traditional or is it necessary to have a swayback frame?

The majority of the Lambsfoot knives I have aren't on Swayback frames :thumbup: I don't have a 68, but the 15 and 77 frames would certainly work (out of the two the 77 would probably be better) :thumbup:

 

[RDaneel]

I haven't weighed in yet. I am just happy we're going to have another forum knife! I'd really like to see a reproduction of a traditional pattern that we haven't seen in a forum knife or anywhere recently. Ultimately, I'll go with whatever the gang decides.

 

[redsparrow]

.... The majority of the Lambsfoot knives I have aren't on Swayback frames :thumbup: I don't have a 68, but the 15 and 77 frames would certainly work (out of the two the 77 would probably be better) :thumbup:

I've been looking for a straight frame lambfoot and haven't come across one yet, but now I know I'll eventually find one. Thanks Jack.