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Andre De Villiers Butcher – BAD BUSINESS, SHADY PRACTICES – ADV Butcher Knife

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I've been shorted before on a refund by a maker on here as well. Not this one, but another a lot of folks like.
 
Gastonknife said:
Perhaps ADV should speak to this himself?
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I don't think it's any accident that it's not Andre, but one of his goons doing his bidding on here for him. This way he can propagate lies without having to back them up with proof or take direct responsibility for those lies. Watch, the next posting from thegunnerd will be "Oh, I was mistaken, I thought Andre mentioned he ordered a bronze-fade scale finish, but Andre never actually said that, so it technically wasn't a lie, it was just a 'misunderstanding' when I communicated with Andre"
 
As for Andre addressing this himself. He's not on any forums yet. Only FB and Instagram. He's too busy to get into a bit of an internet flame war with one unhappy customer. He's running a business, taking care of his son and GF. He actually found out about this through a mutual friend and asked me to take a look. As i'm much better with people then he is , i agreed and wanted to do whatever i could to help fix this or at least find out what it was about. Which i did . I helped who i could and being that this experience is so negative for you Al , i don't expect i can help you. IF that's not good enough, the best way to contact andre is though FB. Pretty much the only place he's active.

These issues haven't fallen on deaf ears. I've talked to Andre about all this and am going to be changing how he takes orders to insure there are no misunderstandings about what is being ordered, regardless of their implied intentionality , what is covered under the standard price , and what is not . That's the best i can do .

Again, sorry you had a bad experience .
 
To me, that's a cop out. To say he is "too busy running a business" is *exactly* why he should be on here. This is his business and if I am not telling the truth, as he so claims, then it should be priority one for him to come on here and provide proof that I am lying, for the sake of his business. It takes less than 5 minutes to register for a free forum membership, so to use that as an excuse is frankly BS. Lastly, it is not to address the concerns of "one unhappy customer", at least one other has come forward, and it would be setting the record straight and addressing the entire Bladeforums community, one of, if not the biggest knife enthusiast communities in the world.

I appreciate your apology that I had a bad experience, especially if it is sincere, but you'll have to excuse me if I'm a bit cynical that it isn't more of a PR statement on your part. Especially in light of your disregard for the facts that I have pointed out and your obvious personal stake in Andre's business success.

Thegunnerd said:
As for Andre addressing this himself. He's not on any forums yet. Only FB and Instagram. He's too busy to get into a bit of an internet flame war with one unhappy customer. He's running a business, taking care of his son and GF. He actually found out about this through a mutual friend and asked me to take a look. As i'm much better with people then he is , i agreed and wanted to do whatever i could to help fix this or at least find out what it was about. Which i did . I helped who i could and being that this experience is so negative for you Al , i don't expect i can help you. IF that's not good enough, the best way to contact andre is though FB. Pretty much the only place he's active.

These issues haven't fallen on deaf ears. I've talked to Andre about all this and am going to be changing how he takes orders to insure there are no misunderstandings about what is being ordered, regardless of their implied intentionality , what is covered under the standard price , and what is not . That's the best i can do .

Again, sorry you had a bad experience .
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@thegunnerd

I'm not going to add flame to this but hope you listen to what i say. It is great that you are representing ADV but it says a lot about a maker "too busy" to talk to his customers.

You think RJ Martin is not busy? Before last week I did not own an rj Martin or ever met him. He has replied to each of the emails I sent him over the past 2 years asking stupid noob questions.

Stan Wilson didn't know me from a hole in the wall, and not only responded to my questions but also put me in his books.
Andre thorburn and zt customer service all got my business because they responded to my questions and now have me as a customer for life.

I would and do believe the op and other poster over any maker that is "too busy" to come in this forum. Plus the op and posters are good knife community members.

PS. I have been seeing a lot of negatives in the mid tech butcher, maybe the maker should address thsi
 
He's not too busy to talk to his customers,he's too busy to address their concerns in a forum that he's not a member of . Not everyone has the kind of time that we do to log and voice these issues. That's why i'm on here , because if i wasn't , no one would be . He's not that kind of knife maker. He's not net savvy and if that's not good enough for you , then I have nothing for you . Don't buy his knives ?

As for my apology it's sincere. I don't want anyone to have a bad experience buying a knife , especially an ADV. I am sorry that it wasn't a good experience. If it had been this whole post wouldn't exist. All i can do is try and make him aware of it in the future and try to make sure things like this don't happen again. I"m going to have a long talk with him tonight about changing the entire ordering process to avoid this. I can do no more and no less
 
Pittknife said:
@thegunnerd

I'm not going to add flame to this but hope you listen to what i say. It is great that you are representing ADV but it says a lot about a maker "too busy" to talk to his customers.

You think RJ Martin is not busy? Before last week I did not own an rj Martin or ever met him. He has replied to each of the emails I sent him over the past 2 years asking stupid noob questions.

Stan Wilson didn't know me from a hole in the wall, and not only responded to my questions but also put me in his books.
Andre thorburn and zt customer service all got my business because they responded to my questions and now have me as a customer for life.

I would and do believe the op and other poster over any maker that is "too busy" to come in this forum. Plus the op and posters are good knife community members.

PS. I have been seeing a lot of negatives in the mid tech butcher, maybe the maker should address thsi
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I think this post highlights what this whole thread is about in terms of the point the OP is trying to make.

There is more to being a knife maker then making knives.

Nobody will remember ADV and his attempt at making mid-tech money in a few months anyways.....
 
JR88FAN said:
I think this post highlights what this whole thread is about in terms of the point the OP is trying to make.

There is more to being a knife maker then making knives.

Nobody will remember ADV and his attempt at making mid-tech money in a few months anyways.....
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Exactly. I've come to take lines like "he's too busy making knives, or he's not net savy" as "he's only a business man when things are peachy and he's able to profit off customers without a hitch"

Maybe we should take gunnerds advice and not buy ADV knifes. Maybe then he'll learn to respect the hardworking people who are putting money in his pocket and food on his table.
 
@Thegunnerd - Based on your earlier posts, you mentioned you and Andre have discussed this and it sounds like you decided that you were the one to come and act as the PR person for ADV Knives since you are going to be the North American Distributor. I hate to say it, but you are doing a HORRIBLE job. Your facts are inaccurate and you keep posting things that make absolutely no sense.

Case in point:

"He's not too busy to talk to his customers, he's too busy to address their concerns in a forum that he's not a member of"
LOL! First rule when doing damage control "he's too busy to address their concerns..." followed by anything should not exist in your vernacular. In this case it's followed up by "...in a forum he's not a member of". Are you serious? Did we not just establish that it takes literally less than 5 minutes, to sign up for a free account? Did we also not just establish that since this IS the biggest (or one of) knife enthusiast communities in the world, and he is the KNIFE business, a five minute minute investment should not even be an question. I am having a hard time understanding what the difference between the first and second part of your above quote. What's the difference if he spent 5 (probably more like 3) minutes registering an account and spending those same 3 minutes discussing/fielding a question on a forum he is registered on already? He's obviously already spent way more time than that briefing you and making shit up to post here.

"That's why I'm on here, because if I wasn't, no one else would be"
I can't say with 100% certainty, but if I was a betting man, I doubt you would be making this your personal mission if you didn't have a personal stake as his North American Distributor.

"He's not net savvy..."
Are you serious on this too? He's not net savvy is the reason why he cannot sign up for a free BF account that an 8 year old could figure out how to do? Let me guess, his 8 year old niece has to help him to post to Facebook and Instagram accounts and she is not around right now to help him sign up for BF.

"...Don't buy his knives"
Wow, I don't even know what to say about this other than damage control, FAIL. I know I won't. I know there are others that still might, but many who actually care about the man behind the knives they carry will not.

"As for my apology it's sincere. I don't want anyone to have a bad experience buying a knife , especially an ADV...."
I want to believe that you are sincere and am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. But why the comment about 'especially an ADV', because you have a business stake in it? Would you be not as especially bothered that I had a bad experience if it was with a maker that you didn't have a financial stake in?

"All i can do is try and make him aware of it in the future and try to make sure things like this don't happen again. I"m going to have a long talk with him tonight about changing the entire ordering process to avoid this. I can do no more and no less"
At least something good will come of this and he will stop his intentionally shady up-charging practices. How about providing Tomalock with the options he ordered. That would be a good place to start. I don't think there has been any dispute that Andre never mentioned the extra charges when he paid, nor did Andre mention that the $450 he paid was just a down payment.

Thegunnerd said:
He's not too busy to talk to his customers,he's too busy to address their concerns in a forum that he's not a member of . Not everyone has the kind of time that we do to log and voice these issues. That's why i'm on here , because if i wasn't , no one would be . He's not that kind of knife maker. He's not net savvy and if that's not good enough for you , then I have nothing for you . Don't buy his knives ?

As for my apology it's sincere. I don't want anyone to have a bad experience buying a knife , especially an ADV. I am sorry that it wasn't a good experience. If it had been this whole post wouldn't exist. All i can do is try and make him aware of it in the future and try to make sure things like this don't happen again. I"m going to have a long talk with him tonight about changing the entire ordering process to avoid this. I can do no more and no less
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I think it Noble for someone to step in to serve as an intermediary in an attempt to bring harmony, resolution and obviously save some business for his maker.

But geeze, Andre is not a child and really needed to step up and explain his side. Afterall it IS his side of the conflict.....

Just sayin
 
This is why I read the GBU almost daily.

Call it whatever you want; a 'Pile on' or 'drama' section as it's often been referred to by some BF, and other forum members, but at the end of the day, the easiest way to learn is from other peoples experiences, good or bad.

@thegunnerd

This is not a count of how many positive vs negative experiences people have had with ADV. It's about the man's character.

Anyone who makes a 'mistake' or (benefit of the doubt) has 'miscommunication' over the price of an item with the differential being so minimal ($50) when looking at the big picture, and can't eat that $50 to make things right with a customer, has zero character.

Your word is all you are. If you agree to sell something at $450, and the details have been agreed to (as where in both of these cases) you don't come back looking for $50 more or trying to move a different knife than was originally agreed to.

If you can't see the issue here, well then you are really going to be a great ambassador for ADV...
 
I really hate all this drama, I am not going to side with anyone on this at all. I am neutral and just hope my $50 deposit on my custom order will all go well within the next year, so far so good and I like my Midtech butcher.
 
This thread has taken up 4 pages, a lot of people are involved, not just sugarleaf. I would like to hear what Andre has to say.
 
AddictedToGear said:
I really hate all this drama, I am not going to side with anyone on this at all. I am neutral and just hope my $50 deposit on my custom order will all go well within the next year, so far so good and I like my Midtech butcher.
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I don't think anyone likes drama. I don't think this is about sides either. It's about right and wrong. Beyond that, I don't think it is anyone's personal responsibility to care or want to care about a maker's character. Some people just don't want to get involved and as long as they like the knife and they don't get screwed, it doesn't matter to them, that's cool with me. Others do care because this is a community of people that look out for each other because anyone who has been ripped off before knows what it feels like.

JR88FAN said:
@thegunnerd

This is not a count of how many positive vs negative experiences people have had with ADV. It's about the man's character.

Anyone who makes a 'mistake' or (benefit of the doubt) has 'miscommunication' over the price of an item with the differential being so minimal ($50) when looking at the big picture, and can't eat that $50 to make things right with a customer, has zero character.

Your word is all you are. If you agree to sell something at $450, and the details have been agreed to (as where in both of these cases) you don't come back looking for $50 more or trying to move a different knife than was originally agreed to.

If you can't see the issue here, well then you are really going to be a great ambassador for ADV...
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Well said JR88FAN. Not following through on your committment shows zero character, but the part that really rubbed me the wrong way was purposefully making the refund process as tedious and as difficult as possible.
 
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Maybe we should give this a break for a day or so. To allow folks some time to digest the 4 harrowing pages so far.
 
I for one will be keeping things short from here on out.

On Facebook Andre is offering a blackout butcher with green fade details for 450 shipped this week. No up charges mentioned.

I asked him to send me what I didn't order with a tracking number today or a refund today. I told him I prefer the refund and asked for an explanation on why fade details are not costing anyone else extra funds on the knives posted today on fb.

I just really need this resolved today. I don't trust this guy past the PayPal 45 day limit.
 
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