Any Honk Falls Collectors?

[james counsellor]

After his death in 1938 John Cushner’s workers and family fulfilled the existing orders and closed the company. One of his daughters went on to teach in a school only a couple doors down from their home and converted barn. Today the school is home to a knife museum. You can actually stand and look at knives he produced in a room where his daughter taught and look out a window at his property where the knives were made. Around 1970 Rhett Sthidam rolled into town. He left with some knives and some parts. From his visit he produced a booklet called “A white mans knife with a red mans name”. It’s actually a combination of two catalogs some awesome pics and a brief story. The glass negatives for the pics are still in Napanoch and the prints are clear and amazing. My interest in modern day Honks was strictly to understand the history of the originals better. In 1989 James Parker purchased WR Case & Sons. He created the Case Classics line. He awarded the contract to make that line to Bluegrass cutlery. A partner at Bluegrass Charlie Dorton had acquired old Case machinery and tooling prior to J.P’s involvement. Bluegrass in turn contracted Queen to make some of the Classics. You may remember Queen had purchased Schatt & Morgan and acquired all their tooling and equipment. At the same time J.P reregistered most of the Case family trademarks to The Tennessee River Knife Association where he and his brother and his brother’s partner at Smokey Mountain Knife sat on the board of directors. He also sold the Case factory collection to Smokey Mountain. In 1990 Case went bankrupt and J.P no longer owned Case. In 1992 Tennessee River released the Case Family Classics. This is the first time the modern Honk Falls appeared. These were marked Germany on them. It’s important to back up a bit here. In 1976-78 James Parker was partners with Jim Frost (Frost Cutlery) after that in 1978 he partnered with Charlie Dorton who was having Bull Dog brand knives made i Germany at the Olbertz factory. This is likely the same factory that made the German marked Honks. Somewhere in that hot mess is the information verifying why Honks were included in the Case family. Likely that Honk Falls and Schatt & Morgan produced knives for Case in the 1920’s. Today Frost Cutlery ownes the Honk Falls trademark. They are made in China and you can buy one at Smokey Mountain. Well there it is. this part of the story is my understanding only. Someone may have better more accurate info. If so please let me know. Thanks
Jay

 

[lambertiana]

Here is one. I cringe a little when I think of the trade I did for this one. View attachment 1591349View attachment 1591350

Great cell! I think that cell color and pattern is my all time favorite.

 

[ea42]

Jay thanks for sharing your incredible knowledge of Honk Falls knives. That's the most complete history I've ever read by a long shot!! I'd say you could easily add a few chapters to 'ol Rhett's book that would be news even to him.

Eric

 

[james counsellor]

Thanks E. That’s the abbreviated condensed version lol.

 

[Houlahound]

After his death in 1938 John Cushner’s workers and family fulfilled the existing orders and closed the company. One of his daughters went on to teach in a school only a couple doors down from their home and converted barn. Today the school is home to a knife museum. You can actually stand and look at knives he produced in a room where his daughter taught and look out a window at his property where the knives were made. Around 1970 Rhett Sthidam rolled into town. He left with some knives and some parts. From his visit he produced a booklet called “A white mans knife with a red mans name”. It’s actually a combination of two catalogs some awesome pics and a brief story. The glass negatives for the pics are still in Napanoch and the prints are clear and amazing. My interest in modern day Honks was strictly to understand the history of the originals better. In 1989 James Parker purchased WR Case & Sons. He created the Case Classics line. He awarded the contract to make that line to Bluegrass cutlery. A partner at Bluegrass Charlie Dorton had acquired old Case machinery and tooling prior to J.P’s involvement. Bluegrass in turn contracted Queen to make some of the Classics. You may remember Queen had purchased Schatt & Morgan and acquired all their tooling and equipment. At the same time J.P reregistered most of the Case family trademarks to The Tennessee River Knife Association where he and his brother and his brother’s partner at Smokey Mountain Knife sat on the board of directors. He also sold the Case factory collection to Smokey Mountain. In 1990 Case went bankrupt and J.P no longer owned Case. In 1992 Tennessee River released the Case Family Classics. This is the first time the modern Honk Falls appeared. These were marked Germany on them. It’s important to back up a bit here. In 1976-78 James Parker was partners with Jim Frost (Frost Cutlery) after that in 1978 he partnered with Charlie Dorton who was having Bull Dog brand knives made i Germany at the Olbertz factory. This is likely the same factory that made the German marked Honks. Somewhere in that hot mess is the information verifying why Honks were included in the Case family. Likely that Honk Falls and Schatt & Morgan produced knives for Case in the 1920’s. Today Frost Cutlery ownes the Honk Falls trademark. They are made in China and you can buy one at Smokey Mountain. Well there it is. this part of the story is my understanding only. Someone may have better more accurate info. If so please let me know. Thanks
Jay

Is this museum open to the public?

 

[james counsellor]

Is this museum open to the public?

Yes. The wawarsing knife museum

 

[Houlahound]

Yes. The wawarsing knife museum

On my bucket list.

 

[rockman0]

Jay,
Thanks for sharing the history and knives fantastic examples of Honk Falls cutlery and an excellent documentation of historical events and relationships !

 

[james counsellor]

No problem at all. Happy to share. You won’t be disappointed with the museum. Give yourself enough time. Easy to get stuck on one display. Knives there are off the hook.

 

[james counsellor]

Awesome, thanks! That is a really lovely knife.

Tyson, not sure if you have interest in Hunters in particular. I do have pics of two other Honk Falls hunters. One is from the museum the other is from a good friends collection. I can show them here if you like. They are a study unto themselves. It goes from Napanoch to Winchester to Honk Falls in the factory to Honk Falls in the barn to Napanoch in the barn. I wound up studying Winchester pretty close. Mostly because I’ve often heard the Winchester 1920 was made by the same workers on the same equipment. To me that did not match up with Winchester buying Eagle knife for their “ production line” methods of knife making. So I figured out what exactly that meant. Happy to share that here. Be good to here what thoughts are out there. Still a work in progress really. Let me know if there is interest. Thanks

 

[Tyson A Wright]

Tyson, not sure if you have interest in Hunters in particular. I do have pics of two other Honk Falls hunters. One is from the museum the other is from a good friends collection. I can show them here if you like. They are a study unto themselves. It goes from Napanoch to Winchester to Honk Falls in the factory to Honk Falls in the barn to Napanoch in the barn. I wound up studying Winchester pretty close. Mostly because I’ve often heard the Winchester 1920 was made by the same workers on the same equipment. To me that did not match up with Winchester buying Eagle knife for their “ production line” methods of knife making. So I figured out what exactly that meant. Happy to share that here. Be good to here what thoughts are out there. Still a work in progress really. Let me know if there is interest. Thanks

Please do show them here! (There's another thread focused on hunters, though, that might be more appropriate: here.)

-Tyson

 

[james counsellor]

Hey all, here are the two other Hunters with the Honk Falls tang. These are not my knives. I photographed them to document and catalog them as part of my research. The jigged bone is what I’ve seen as the most common among the Honks I have collected and photographedHere are pics from Rhetts Napanoch booklet. You can see the one has the worm groove jigging and the other was possibly made on contract for Napanoch.I’m going to break this up into 2 or three posts as it is a little difficult to give the info in a sequence that is not confusing. The big thing is to understand that Winchester purchased Napanoch and the Eagle knife Co. at the same time. 1919. This was a deliberate strategy toward their business model with regards to knife production.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

Hey all, here are the two other Hunters with the Honk Falls tang. These are not my knives. I photographed them to document and catalog them as part of my research. The jigged bone is what I’ve seen as the most common among the Honks I have collected and photographedView attachment 1592480View attachment 1592481Here are pics from Rhetts Napanoch booklet. You can see the one has the worm groove jigging and the other was possibly made on contract for Napanoch.View attachment 1592488View attachment 1592489I’m going to break this up into 2 or three posts as it is a little difficult to give the info in a sequence that is not confusing. The big thing is to understand that Winchester purchased Napanoch and the Eagle knife Co. at the same time. 1919. This was a deliberate strategy toward their business model with regards to knife production.

I want to make sure rhat Pàdruig and Quiet see this.

 

[Un-Chained]

Thank you J james counsellor
You are putting on a seminar as we used to say

 

[Mike Robuck]

I've enjoyed the history lesson, thanks. Here's a Napanoch that is more brownish than what is in my picture.

 

[james counsellor]

Wow! That’s a beauty

 

[james counsellor]

In 1919 Eagle knife was owned by the Hemming family. Before the Hemings started Eagle they owned a business selling cutlery machines they had invented.
Their automatic knife grinder was invented in 1904 an dramatically improved production. Originally, their machines were fitted with stone wheels. When the Hemming machines were married up with the Wolf grinding wheels it changed the game. Wolf’s wheels were able to be manufacture with various grits in the compound. You could line up a row of grinders with different grits and send blades down the line. These and other machines of the day gave Eagle the production line style capabilities Winchester was after. All they needed were skilled cutlerers to make it happen.

 

[james counsellor]

So Winchester did get their skilled cutlerers when they purchased Napanoch. Not to keep doing what they were doing just somewhere else but to help integrate the new advancements happening in the industrial revolution with some of the necessary skills still required. Here is a pic from inside the Nap factory circa 1916ishIt is possible in the next couple years the factory modernized and has Hemming grinders and modern equipment but I doubt it. I just don’t think saying that the 1920 Winchester Hunter was made by the same cutlerers on the same equipment is accurate or does justice to what was happening at the time. If you look back you will see I posted an Auction booklet from 1928. In that auction they listed Hemming grinders. If you look at the SCHRADE auction in 2004 you will see Hemming grinders listed! That’s a full 100 year stretch. Everything that has been written about Walden previously states Walden was purchased by Winchester and all the equipment was shipped up to CT. Not true. It was a merger with Simmons which is different but that’s not the question. The question is what was being made in Walden from 1922-1928. I spoke with the Walden historian who told me Enders was making knives there which is a different story. Now if you said Walden was making parts on contract for Nap ie blades for their hunters in Hemming grinders then you can say it’s all the same. Now everyone can hopefully understand the study of this great pattern with a little better perspective.

 

[james counsellor]

I've enjoyed the history lesson, thanks. Here's a Napanoch that is more brownish than what is in my picture.

Mike, can’t get over how cool that nap you posted is. This Honk Falls is at the museum. I found it interesting that Winchester had made the same pattern. There is one in the Western states catalog. I noticed the ones made by Boker and Valley Forge have wider groves in bolsters. Seems like the Germans were doing theirs different to me. That top swedge ground on an angle like that is so Napanoch.

 

[Mike Robuck]

Thanks James. I think Remington did the same pattern as well? I may have some pics somewhere. I have seen more Honk Falls knives in this thread than I have seen my entire life, so thanks again.