Bladeforums Supporting Clone Dealer

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TenShun705 said:
It doesn’t need to violate any rules, it’s already shown itself as a detriment to this community. I mean, is the reasoning behind allowing his dealer to stay worth the broken spirits and disappointment that it has caused? Are the repercussions of removing this said dealer greater than keeping them on BF?
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I appreciate that you simmer on things before you post- I should do that more.

I there's a problem with setting precedence- merely tossing someone out on their keister for merely holding a dealer membership and that causing discord is problematic. The repercussions would probably be deep reaching. Conversely, if Spark says "follow the forum rules" and they choose not to, well that's a different story, because that's expected of everyone and part of the agreement when we join.
 
EngrSorenson said:
I there's a problem with setting precedence- merely tossing someone out on their keister for merely holding a dealer membership and that causing discord is problematic. The repercussions would probably be deep reaching. Conversely, if Spark says "follow the forum rules" and they choose not to, well that's a different story, because that's expected of everyone and part of the agreement when we join.
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I appreciate and respect your feedback. I completely understand the importance of setting precedence; for which I believe is also being brought up about the precedence that is being set by not taking action against Topomart. I’m big on rules, though I’ve been a bit of a knucklehead back in my days lol, so I respect the purpose of them. My opinion is that rules are created to maintain structure and order. Just like how laws are meant to keep folks in line. Well, a law doesn’t need to be broken for an individual to have done something atrocious or vile. Just because Topomart hasn’t broken any forum rules, doesn’t mean they should be allowed to maintain a presence here. The backlash they’ve caused should be an indication that keeping with the rules isn’t always the most important course of action. Humans are dynamic and don’t need to be confined to what has been written. Just because there’s a rule to follow doesn’t mean it’s the most effective course. I respect the decision of the owner, I’m just hoping to offer some perspective that may or may not have been considered.
 
Not breaking rules isn’t a reason to ban? The dealer hasn’t caused anything in this thread. I only see members posting here. Not the dealer in question.

I sure hope I don’t get any tickets for not breaking any rules if I drive today.
 
craytab said:
They sure do, which is not an issue per the rules of the forum. The use of the axis lock is not a problem, but calling it the "axis" lock is a problem, which is why hogue and others don't use that name. That is a trademarked term. Your forum is posting links where that trademarked term can be seen, on the linked page, being used to sell knives by companies that don't hold the rights to use that term. No grey area. No semantics.

Will you do nothing about those links?
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You are ok with @topomart offering knives with axis locks, but not them using keyword spam / search engine optimization, and you expect me to police every page on dealer sites? And any dealer who uses the term AXIS lock or other trademarked terms on their site? Again, where does this end? If a dealer offers a knife that has been discontinued and is no longer available, but maintains the page on their site for page rank in Google search result, is that also a problem? They are using trademarked brands, lock mechanisms & product descriptions to give themselves an advantage to offer different products since the original isn't available, which isn't any different from using keywords to drive traffic for knockoffs.

This isn't a good faith argument from you anymore and you lack the foresight to see the far reaching consequences for what you demand.
T.L.E. Sharp said:
A dealer is welcome to purchase a dealer membership and post according to the rules. The rest of the community is the welcome to crap all over their posts and make it impossible to avoid a reputation as a peddler of fakes and counterfeits.

...

Allowing them to be a member may even be for the best. It makes it easier to point and yell at them.
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We specifically allow discussion of companies without interfering for exactly this reason - you take the good, you take the bad.

We've had a similar issue in the past couple years with Survive! Knives: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/survive-knives-forum-should-be-closed.1613828/ - ultimately they got closed down because of actions that took place on the forums & how people were being effected by their behavior here. Do you guys think that our allowing their continued presence ultimately helped or harmed them? I feel the latter - and that information is still able to be found today.

There was another company manufacturing a knockoff of the Tom Brown Tracker that got roundly ridiculed for their advertising tactics, specifically the model they used as 'cheesecake'
 
Hypothetical question for the folks who still call for the banning of Topomart:

What if, in an alternate universe, Topomart was the same thing it is today.
Assume they get a dealer membership, but then they proceed to not post or do anything.
Their account just sits there.

Lets assume that if you google the name "Topomart" that it takes you to their website and it's full of Clones, rip-offs and whatever tasteless knife products.

Would you still be calling for Spark to ban them?

What if they just had a basic membership, or just registered member, same situation applied?

Edited for clarity. I tortured a phrase.
 
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tejasandre said:
Not breaking rules isn’t a reason to ban? The dealer hasn’t caused anything in this thread. I only see members posting here. Not the dealer in question.

I sure hope I don’t get any tickets for not breaking any rules if I drive today.
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I doubt the dealer wants to deal with this can of worms we happily opened for them lol.

Ditto, I sure hope you don’t get any tickets for not breaking any rules. Or should I say, I hope you don’t get caught ;) jk, I have no idea how you drive.
 
Spark said:
You are ok with @topomart offering knives with axis locks, but not them using keyword spam / search engine optimization, and you expect me to police every page on dealer sites? And any dealer who uses the term AXIS lock or other trademarked terms on their site? Again, where does this end? If a dealer offers a knife that has been discontinued and is no longer available, but maintains the page on their site for page rank in Google search result, is that also a problem? They are using trademarked brands, lock mechanisms & product descriptions to give themselves an advantage to offer different products since the original isn't available, which isn't any different from using keywords to drive traffic for knockoffs.

This isn't a good faith argument from you anymore and you lack the foresight to see the far reaching consequences for what you demand.
We specifically allow discussion of companies without interfering for exactly this reason - you take the good, you take the bad.

We've had a similar issue in the past couple years with Survive! Knives: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/survive-knives-forum-should-be-closed.1613828/ - ultimately they got closed down because of actions that took place on the forums & how people were being effected by their behavior here. Do you guys think that our allowing their continued presence ultimately helped or harmed them? I feel the latter - and that information is still able to be found today.

There was another company manufacturing a knockoff of the Tom Brown Tracker that got roundly ridiculed for their advertising tactics, specifically the model they used as 'cheesecake'
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Forgive me if I was not clear, I am trying to give you a good reason, within forum rules, to revoke these folks dealer membership. With every link to their homepage, the term "axis" lock appears. They do not sell an axis lock as that term is only legally allowed to be used by the the trademark holder, which is Benchmade, a manufacturer represented on this forum. Unlike the clones topomart sells, one does not have to look any deeper on their website than mousing over their "lock types" tab and the menu drops down displaying a term they have no right to use. This seems akin to posting links to clones in them, no? Direct links to trademark infringement?

This is sort of like the tail-light being out on a car you know is full of drugs. You can pull it over if you want.
 
Benchmade trademarks the term Bali-Song. Do I also ban every dealer who uses that term for non Benchmade butterfly knives?
 
craytab said:
This is sort of like the tail-light being out on a car you know is full of drugs. You can pull it over if you want.
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It's more like Sparks is John McClane and Topomart is Hans Gruber before he assaults Nakatomi Tower.
 
EngrSorenson said:
Hypothetical question for the folks who still call for the banning of Topomart:

What if, in an alternate universe, Topomart was the same thing it is today.
Assume they get a dealer membership, but then they proceed to not post or do anything.
Their account just sits there.

Lets assume that if you google the name "Topomart" that it takes you to their website and it's full of Clones, rip-offs and whatever tasteless knife products.

Would you still be calling for Spark to ban them?

What if they just had a basic membership, or just registered member, same situation applied?

Edited for clarity. I tortured a phrase.
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Don't go all Philip K.Dick on a relatively simple material situation...
 
herisson said:
The difference I can't see is between "selling clones" on this site and "advertising clones" on this site. Technically, it's not the same thing, right. Not a marketstand but a showcase... Still, I struggle.
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Yeah and this is internet, you are just a click away from the whole market full of stands.
They bought themselves into legitimately having Bladeforums host their links. In internet terms it's even referred to as some form of affiliate links. Hence, the site is affiliated with Topomart. Hence, the topic of this thread stands true. Maybe Spark is tired of all of this, but the other guys are pretty relentless. It started not so long ago and China companies are making pretty decent copies of everything popular. The world is flat now and people buy more products online. It's a bit of a war, these guys are spreading and our site is wishy-washy in our stand against it. We just want to be left alone.
 
Ha ! In a war, wanting to be left alone is a weak stance... Whatever, I see the Chinese brands constantly pushing and winning ground. And many numbnuts help them by marveling like "hey, this PissingTiger is so much like a [legit brand] but so much cheaper and it does everything as good and even better...". You can't cure stupid. Sad.
 
We don't have to associate with it and give it more voice. Sad is they can copy stuff and make money and be unpunished because of where they are geographically located. But the internet bridges the gap.
 
I think if newbies found the link to that place (like I did) they would think two things:

Wow, if they are on BF they must be a reputable place to purchase a knife
or
WTF is this place doing on BF and what is BF coming to?

BF is an endorsement whether unintentional or not.

Mr. Sparks, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Feels like a porn shop just moved in between the laundromat and the candy store.
 
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