Bladeforums Supporting Clone Dealer

Status
Not open for further replies.
It seems that the existing rules cannot repel fakers and cloners. Why not introduce an appliance procedure for dealers ? The worst offenders could be easily weeded out before they set foot in the house. It certainly is easier to refuse access than to throw out someone who has already paid a membership.
 
That's certainly an interesting thought. Considering the number of people who are in this thread claiming that they view a Dealer membership as some sort of endorsement, and that they look to the dealer list as a buying guide perhaps it's time to clearly delineate between who bought a membership, and who is actually a member of the community.
 
herisson said:
It seems that the existing rules cannot repel fakers and cloners. Why not introduce an appliance procedure for dealers ? The worst offenders could be easily weeded out before they set foot in the house. It certainly is easier to refuse access than to throw out someone who has already paid a membership.
Click to expand...

because that puts Spark back in the “policing activity which isn’t part of Bladeforums” camp.

Do you want the guy to start doing background checks, too?
 
Now that I have taken some time to settle down, I would like to continue the discussion Spark Spark .

First and foremost, I respect your decision, and as I have stated before, I disagree. Which is fine that we disagree, it’s the great thing about people having different personalities. But nonetheless, I still respect your decision and reasoning.

I will answer your “blanket” question. I am not ok with any IP theft, if I know about it. That is my “blanket” answer.

I asked you to PM me...one business owner (multiple businesses like yourself) to another. You decided not to take my offer but drag it out here. Then you asked another member to PM you. Felt like a slap in the face.

I don’t appreciate my integrity being attacked and may I point out that I never attacked yours once in this thread or anywhere else. You tried to belittle me, talk down to me, and you attacked my integrity with no justification.

Just remember, you may own Bladeforums and run servers, but it is the members who make this site great. We post content and it is the reason other knife enthusiasts visit. You are a business owner, and our first interaction was very unpleasant.

As someone else pointed out, there is a loophole in the rules which would allow you to ban TM for things they do “off-site.”

I think this situation could have been handled a lot better, and I don’t agree with some of the other posters here, so I didn’t like being accused of agreeing with other posters comments.

I never asked for “one-on-one” interaction, but you decided to engage with me. And I am ok with that.

All I am asking for is a little respect and decency when having a conversation with you.

Thank you for the opportunity and for hosting Blade forums.

Happy Holidays, Spark.
 
Spark said:
That's certainly an interesting thought. Considering the number of people who are in this thread claiming that they view a Dealer membership as some sort of endorsement, and that they look to the dealer list as a buying guide perhaps it's time to clearly delineate between who bought a membership, and who is actually a member of the community.
Click to expand...
I certainly do appreciate your answer. Thanks, sincerely.
 
Spark said:
... perhaps it's time to clearly delineate between who bought a membership, and who is actually a member of the community.
Click to expand...

If I understand you right, you’re saying have a separate distinction for
  • Purchased Dealer Membership
  • Contributing Dealer Membership
I’d consider that a great compromise.

Edit: upon review, I’m uncertain that was actually the point you were trying to make.
 
Last edited:
Spark said:
That's certainly an interesting thought. Considering the number of people who are in this thread claiming that they view a Dealer membership as some sort of endorsement, and that they look to the dealer list as a buying guide perhaps it's time to clearly delineate between who bought a membership, and who is actually a member of the community.
Click to expand...
Something separate, like a "preferred dealers list" based on community input and various other, yet to be determined, criteria?
At first blush, that sounds like a good idea.
 
Like, "advertise only" vs "go to trusted member" ? Sounds good. Disregard the words, keep the general idea.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
I will answer your “blanket” question. I am not ok with any IP theft, if I know about it. That is my “blanket” answer.
Click to expand...
OK.

Sharp & Fiery said:
I asked you to PM me...one business owner (multiple businesses like yourself) to another. You decided not to take my offer but drag it out here. Then you asked another member to PM you. Felt like a slap in the face.
Click to expand...
I don't have time to PM & have a back and forth with multiple people covering the same topics going on in this thread. As for a "slap" imagine how I feel dealing with this thread & being compared to Judas Iscariot after what I've done for this community & industry.

Sharp & Fiery said:
As someone else pointed out, there is a loophole in the rules which would allow you to ban TM for things they do “off-site.”
Click to expand...
What you view as a "loophole" isn't your choice, or their's, to make. Period.

Sharp & Fiery said:
I think this situation could have been handled a lot better, and I don’t agree with some of the other posters here, so I didn’t like being accused of agreeing with other posters comments.
Click to expand...
I agree which is why, along with @topomart, a number of the people who helped create this situation are firmly on my radar.

Sharp & Fiery said:
I never asked for “one-on-one” interaction, but you decided to engage with me.
Click to expand...
You chose to enter the ring after I made myself clear, don't complain when you are given personal attention

Sharp & Fiery said:
All I am asking for is a little respect and decency when having a conversation with you.
Click to expand...
This would have been wised advice for many people posting on this thread.

This post from earlier in the thread is one of the wisest:
DrRollinstein said:
Can't see the issue here. Clone seller basically wastes 350 bucks because they can't advertise most of their stock, and blade forums gains 350 bucks with no downside.

Seems like a genuine win win situation to me. Think most of you are just looking to fight about something.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
r8shell said:
Something separate, like a "preferred dealers list" based on community input and various other, yet to be determined, criteria?
At first blush, that sounds like a good idea.
Click to expand...

I feel like if this is something Spark genuinely means to do, it could be a little tricky to navigate, but I see a lot of positives coming out of that. There are definitely dealers we members would endorse. We probably can’t have a “ naughty list”, but we could definitely have distinguished, active and supporting dealer memberships.

fleshing that out, it could be a popularity contest and still be legitimate. “Get 100 paying members to vouch for you” kind of thing, since really dealer loyalty is what we’re kind of discussing.

I say paying only because it’s too easy to make an unregistered account- no skin in the game.
 
If this Dealer has nothing legit to sell, I'd wager they will quickly realize they have squandered their dues here on BF; it's very much like a Gym selling Membership to those who 'flake out' and wind up never going back after a visit or two. Should they get a refund? I say no. Spark has already made his position on 'clones and counterfeits' crystal clear, IMO.

Spark will run his business as he sees fit. End of story. There is no vetting for paid membership status here: Members will rise and fall on their own actions/reputations.

But, we Members have also been given tools to make our own personal experience more enjoyable, such as "Ignore" and "Report". If these are not enough, any one of us can logout and choose not to return.

Anyone else who wants to dictate how BladeForums is run can pony up the scratch to make Kevin an offer to buy the site and then run it any way they want.

Just my two coppers for the pot.
 
Cloners, fakers and thieves are smart enough to skirt the rules you line out, which work only in close knit communities. Open up the community, with no guards, to the wider world and watch what happens. I totally trust Spark to do the right thing for his site. He was doused with tons of bickering, but still got around to consider there might be a way (any way) out of the alligator pond. I believe there is. Crooks taking over the internet is not a fatality.
 
So. We have banned discussion, sale, etc. of clones and counterfeits since when? That is the "line" generally agreed on, and apparently enforced here. I was under the impression that this was because the practice is seen as unethical. I could be mistaken.

If even the discussion of these items is forbidden because it is seen as legitimizing or encouraging the practice of making them and therefore unethical (which I agree with) are you REALLY SURPRISED that BF taking money from a site that sells mostly or all clones is looked upon with suspicion? Disappointment at the least. This just doesn't sit well with many and I'm sure you can see why. Yes, you make a logical argument for your decision (no clones/counterfeits on BF, their site you can't help) and I can see your point. But totally dismissing the other sides' point as not having ANY validity because you "can't police the internet" isn't really reasonable either.

Not talking about Strider SHOT BLADE blah blah blah. "Policing every vendor's site" or whatever. This site just sells clones and they are a BF dealer member.

And yes, the dealer list, whether officially or not, is looked at as an approval of sorts. "Support the dealers who support our forums." It's a symbiotic relationship. Like the clone thing, no links to or discussion of non-supporting dealers is allowed.
 
Last edited:
Spark said:
OK.

I don't have time to PM & have a back and forth with multiple people covering the same topics going on in this thread. As for a "slap" imagine how I feel dealing with this thread & being compared to Judas Iscariot after what I've done for this community & industry.


What you view as a "loophole" isn't your choice, or their's, to make. Period.

I agree which is why, along with @topomart, a number of the people who helped create this situation are firmly on my radar.

You chose to enter the ring after I made myself clear, don't complain when you are given personal attention

This would have been wised advice for many people posting on this thread.

This post from earlier in the thread is one of the wisest:
Click to expand...

You offered to Pm back and forth another member.
And I agree with you, I woulda been a little hot seeing this thread too if I were you. But I made a point to not attack you in my posts. Also, I know it’s hard not to take it personally, but I also don’t think that most members equate Bladeforums with you. Some posts were directed at you, and I don’t agree with that.

I also didnt say the loophole was my choice. Just pointed out that it was there. Why so much distain for me?

You have people firmly on your radar because of their opinions that hurt your feelings? Like I said before, I don’t agree with the unnecessary attacks on you personally. It is low.

Im not complaining that you engaged me personally. Im voicing that I didnt feel your attitude towards me was neccessary. Im fine with respectful discussions.

If this whole thread could have not happened, that would have been the best.

Anyhow, I hope that there is no animosity towards me...but at this point, I don’t even know what to think.
 
JAM said:
So. We have banned discussion, sale, etc. of clones and counterfeits since when? That is the "line" generally agreed on, and apparently enforced here. I was under the impression that this was because the practice is seen as unethical. I could be mistaken.
Click to expand...
I don't have a changelog with dates on the rules of the site. I'm not really interested in that either.

JAM said:
If even the discussion of these items is forbidden because it is seen as legitimizing or encouraging the practice of making them and therefore unethical (which I agree with) are you REALLY SURPRISED that BF taking money from a site that sells mostly or all clones is looked upon with suspicion or worse? Disappointment at the least. This just doesn't sit well with many and I'm sure you can see why. Yes, you make a logical argument for your decision (no clones/counterfeits on BF, their site you can't help) and I can see your point. But totally dismissing the other sides' point as not having ANY validity because you "can't police the internet" isn't really reasonable either.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised that some of you are unable to discern the difference between me being able to control what's done on this site and what happens off site.

I'm also well aware that some of you will voice reasonable concerns and some are determined to stamp their feet and be unreasonable. If you want a vetting process for dealers, that's fine, we can discuss what that will entail.

JAM said:
Not talking about Strider SHOT BLADE blah blah blah. "Policing every vendor's site" or whatever. This site just sells clones and they are a BF dealer member.
Click to expand...
This has been answered repeatedly in the thread. If you can't take the time to read & understand then you aren't being a productive contributor.

JAM said:
And yes, the dealer list, whether officially or not, is looked at as an approval of sorts. "Support the dealers who support our forums." It's a symbiotic relationship. Like the clone thing, no links to or discussion of non-supporting dealers is allowed.
Click to expand...
The dealer list is not an endorsement list and you imposing conditions & demands on it that aren't promised or provided from our end is part of the problem here.
 
Spark said:
I'm not surprised that some of you are unable to discern the difference between me being able to control what's done on this site and what happens off site.
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no illusions about you being able to control anything outside of this site and never have. That's just noise.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top