Bladeforums Supporting Clone Dealer

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herisson

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First true laugh I had in weeks. Go Tiger ! You're a true believer. The Internet won't resolve anything. It will make everything worse. Look around, for Chriss' sake. Sorry... I couldn't resist.
 
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Benchmade trademarks the term Bali-Song. Do I also ban every dealer who uses that term for non Benchmade butterfly knives?
If you wanted to, sure!

Context matters here. We all know why topomart shouldn't be here. Seems you just need a reason within the rules. They were unable to get Al Capone on all the really bad crimes...
 

herisson

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[Feels like a porn shop just moved in between the laundromat and the candy store.]
Where is that shop ? Just asking for a friend...
 

Spark

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If you wanted to, sure!

Context matters here. We all know why topomart shouldn't be here. Seems you just need a reason within the rules. They were unable to get Al Capone on all the really bad crimes...
No, it's not what I "want" it's what you guys are screaming your heads off about & having meltdowns over. It's also not what "we all know" - at allYet again you've shown you lack the foresight to see the long term consequences of such actions, but have no problems demanding I act as the IP police for what people do on other websites. That's not my job.

Last time I checked, I don't have prosecution power for any law breaking or IP infringement either.
BF is an endorsement whether unintentional or not.

That's laughable considering the number of dealers who carry knives made by a company I have very bad blood with.
 

KingMC

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So if I understand this, they can sell here, but they are not allowed to talk about what they are selling, and we can buy, provided we don’t discuss what we purchased. Certainly strange times and strange rules.

n2s

You don't understand this.

They can sell knives that abide by the Exchange rules in the Exchange, they can advertise/talk about knives that abide by the Exchange rules, and the only knives that "we" should have the ability to buy from them on the Exchange are knives that abide by the Exchange rules.

I have read through this entire thread and one question I didn’t see asked or answered was what was the original intent on allowing this “dealer’s” entrance in the first place?
Seems we were mistaken and anyone with knives to sell and 350 can be here.

Anybody is allowed to sign up with Bladeforums, but one needs to follow the rules to be able to participate.

Dealer memberships can be purchased by any member with $350, both of you have the ability to buy a Dealer membership right now, as do I. It allows for advertising a business in various ways that other paid memberships don't allow, but ultimately it is still just the equivalent to any other paid membership in terms of availability and accessibility. There is no vetting process, but just like any other paid membership here the Exchange rules are enforced as needed and just like any other paid member if rules are broken warnings/bannings will happen regardless of membership level.

We sometimes find ourselves as mods having to ask individuals to purchase Dealer memberships to sell on the Exchange because their selling practices fit the Exchange definition of a Dealer and not of a normal member.
 

Gilbert G

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Man this is a toughie. Holy smokes this is all a lot to read through but got through most and here's my perspective. First I think we should be grateful as members to be a part of such a forum that A) does care about the content and quality of those that advertise B) does care about the integrity of the forum and C) that we have an (owner/ creator?) who cares enough to take the time to hear members input on the matter. He could simply just make his decision and that's that.

This is a really tough one as I see it and can see both sides. I personally own a few clones that I do love however you will never see me advertise, sell them, talk about them, or even recommend them to others here on Bladeforums. I will never do so in the future here on Bladeforums. That doesn't mean I may not somewhere else or between a private conversation with a buddy or two. Why, because I respect Bladeforums, its policies, and totally understand them and am super cool with that. I totally understand also where my fellow members here are coming from in wanting to keep the integrity of the forum intact and believing that by banning all dealers who sell clones or "ripoffs" will achieve that. The question is ....will it? Is banning them the ONLY solution? I really think Spark has the best perspective in terms of what it means for the forum and has information we don't have. Also see the point too that he can't control what others do on their sites - whether they sell this or that or use a trademark label for a lock interface etc. He simply can't control nor should he be able to.

Another great point is membership. Is not everyone allowed to purchase a membership, be a member, and contribute to this great forum? Yes! All that is required is pay a fee and follow some simple rules. Pretty awesome and so it makes sense dealers are no different thus as long as they follow the designated rules, all is good. We should all be so lucky and fortunate to have a seat at the table with no other conditions than the ones stated above for I'm sure there could be many a restrictions and qualifications imposed if the owner of this forum wanted to.

I see both sides and one does have to wonder if this was the case in the past (and don't know that it was) that other dealers selling clones on their sites were banned immediately and why not now then? I'm not privy to that info or history so can't comment but do believe the response from the forum community whether or not Topomart or any other dealer will receive new customers and revenue will speak for itself. Perhaps I believe too much in the integrity of the forum members here but then again ya'll have spoken so guess that is a good enough indication.
 

cdf293

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While I do fall to one side of the fence, I suppose I can understand both positions on this matter although one position makes less sense to me than the other. I am sure that my comment will catch heat from all directions even though I hope that doesn't happen.

The fact is, it is Sparks website. Done. End of story.
As KingMC said a few posts ago, anyone can purchase a membership as long as they follow the rules. If a website with the name "Knives N' Nutsacks" joins, who are we to question it? It is my understanding that as long as the member follows the rules, this shouldn't be a problem regardless of whether I clicked a link from this site that showed me someone's junk (literally and figuratively). But hey, at least they have authentic knives for sale. Yes, I know this is an extreme example but many people consider the issue at hand an extreme example since discussing or selling clones/counterfeits is verboten and has been since well before I was a member. If I find it unbearable to deal with or tolerate, I can and should leave.

Many people might understandably have a problem with this from a moral standpoint but since it isn't anyones job to police what a website has on display at said website, nothing can be done until the member breaks the rules. The ugly reality is that if this situation bothers you, you can vote with your feet since it is ultimately Sparks decision. It's pretty obvious that this topic is as toxic as politics and no amount of back and forth will change the outcome with this particular vendor. It could however certainly have a significant affect on who chooses to stay or go, who is forced to go, and who chooses to support the forum by paying for a membership in the future. It's a no win situation for ANY party involved in this discussion. With this said, it's time to give Spark a break, even if one doesn't agree with his position since there is nothing more to be gained since he has made his decision.

Happy Holidays everyone!
 
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Thanks for your opinion. So just to be clear, if any Dealer member carries OTF knives, you will not be renewing? Any dealers carrying multitools other than Leatherman? I'm curious where you draw the line. Pocket clips? Thumbstuds?

Will you also be boycotting any dealer or manufacturer who exhibits at BLADE or SHOT show?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or a jerk but all of the examples you name I can, within the rules, go onto the exchange here and buy or sell. I can discuss or promote them freely and not expect any of the mods to blink an eye. I can't do that with the kind of clones that Topomart is selling, the rules are very clear on that.

I'm not bringing this up to accuse you of hypocrisy or to say that the rules need to be changed to be consistent, but to point out that whoever hammered out those rules, I don't know if it was you alone or how it happened, already drew a line and I think that's the reason most of us drew the same line there in the past and why we expected it to be drawn there now.
 

Spark

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I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or a jerk but all of the examples you name I can, within the rules, go onto the exchange here and buy or sell. I can discuss or promote them freely and not expect any of the mods to blink an eye. I can't do that with the kind of clones that Topomart is selling, the rules are very clear on that.

I'm not bringing this up to accuse you of hypocrisy or to say that the rules need to be changed to be consistent, but to point out that whoever hammered out those rules, I don't know if it was you alone or how it happened, already drew a line and I think that's the reason most of us drew the same line there in the past and why we expected it to be drawn there now.
And yet in this very thread people are demanding that the line be moved to police what's done off BladeForums.com. If I do that, what's next? Let the line be redrawn again the next time someone has a fit about something?
 
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And yet in this very thread people are demanding that the line be moved to police what's done off BladeForums.com. If I do that, what's next? Let the line be redrawn again the next time someone has a fit about something?
I guess I don't see the substantiative difference in drawing that line in that place for sales taking place on the forum and drawing it in that same place for dealers selling those products off the forum. I'll be the first to say that the reason I don't see it may be that I don't own or moderate a forum, but if BFC hasn't had issues with the line moving towards banning the sale of say, Blackjack knives for copying Randall, or the other way towards allowing Ganzo clones of the Rat 1 I don't understand why a line about dealers that primarily deal in clones on or off the forum would prove much more mutable.

Again, my lack of understanding may well be my lack of experience showing, but I guess I don't think of this as asking you or the mods to move the line, but to establish a new line in response to a new situation.
 

Eli Chaps

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Was Strider on BF?

"There's nothing wrong with buying a Strider knife if you like the design, materials, etc. If it makes you happy, go for it. Hopefully you did some research before buying and weighed the pros & cons.

Me, personally, I don't like rewarding people for dishonesty. These guys straight up fabricated their entire history and that behavior continued after a lawsuit, getting called out here, etc." Spark Spark


"His past is ok? There's nothing wrong with serving as an infantryman. Lying about your past is another matter - just like lying about how knives are made and what they are made of is wrong. Note the difference." Spark

I've repeatedly advised people to not buy Strider knives regardless of if they like the knives. I've always had a pretty clear vision of my idea of right and wrong. I'm sincerely grateful to you Kevin and BF for educating me on the scumbag.

I don't like rewarding dishonesty either, that's where I'm coming from.
 
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SECTION 3 - Rules for Everyone

6.These forums operate on honesty and integrity. As such, we have a dim view of people who act dishonestly. Your actions in the community have consequences, even if they happen elsewhere, something to keep in mind.

Seems like there is a rule in place to take care of this whole problem.

Does topomart operate with with honesty and integrity? It is claimed they do when posting here. What about elsewhere?
 

tejasandre

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Forum rules can’t be enforced out in the rest of the world. They only apply to the forum
 

Dadpool

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When I was new to knives, I used the BF-supporting dealer list to find good vendors. Several years on, I still use it as a data point to determine whether a dealer I've never ordered from before is legit. When people ask where to buy knives, I often point them to that list. Every time, in all of those situations, the list has worked well.

Having Topomart on that list doesn't immediately make the list completely useless; the many excellent sites I've ordered from in the past are still on there, after all. But it certainly makes it less useful, and I won't be pointing folks to that list anymore.
 

EngrSorenson

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Having Topomart on that list doesn't immediately make the list completely useless; the many excellent sites I've ordered from in the past are still on there, after all. But it certainly makes it less useful, and I won't be pointing folks to that list anymore.

It’s like anything else in life- there are no silver bullets. It doesn’t take a bomb sniffing dog to find that dud. One look at that webpage and most people will probably be running anti virus software.

Seems you just need a reason within the rules. They were unable to get Al Capone on all the really bad crimes...

Ever wonder if the jailers who kept Charles Manson alive and fed ever hated doing those tasks? I’m sure Spark’s situation is more akin to that.

Don't go all Philip K.Dick on a relatively simple material situation...

I just made it simpler, since I’m curious about where the rebuke would end.

And many numbnuts help them by marveling like "hey, this PissingTiger is so much like a [legit brand] but so much cheaper and it does everything as good and even better...". You can't cure stupid. Sad.

objective judgement on knife performance is almost impossible anyway. My knives fall into two catagories: good enough and not good enough. I don’t even bother trying to discern which is better at cutting.

if these folks who buy a clone truly find that it falls in the good enough category, maybe that’s instructive about what we can expect about legitimate knives.
 
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You've been around here long enough to know how to quote someone so they know you are addressing them. And with that said, I won't be responding to you further in this thread. We don't need off topic personal attacks muddying up the discussion.

I wasn't addressing you. I was talking shit about you.

Are you so worked into a lather about this because you bought all your clones from Topomart? Is this some sort of 4D chess customer service issue, where you blast them on Bladeforums because they sent you the wrong Sebenza clone or something? Please respond, inquiring minds are waiting with baited breath.
 
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