Bladeforums Supporting Clone Dealer

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Spark said:
If you want a vetting process for dealers, that's fine, we can discuss what that will entail.
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I would be all for that. I understand it may be complicated but it would be worth it if we can preserve a corner of the internet where things stay sound.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
You offered to Pm back and forth another member.
And I agree with you, I woulda been a little hot seeing this thread too if I were you. But I made a point to not attack you in my posts. Also, I know it’s hard not to take it personally, but I also don’t think that most members equate Bladeforums with you. Some posts were directed at you, and I don’t agree with that.

I also didnt say the loophole was my choice. Just pointed out that it was there. Why so much distain for me?

You have people firmly on your radar because of their opinions that hurt your feelings? Like I said before, I don’t agree with the unnecessary attacks on you personally. It is low.

Im not complaining that you engaged me personally. Im voicing that I didnt feel your attitude towards me was neccessary. Im fine with respectful discussions.

If this whole thread could have not happened, that would have been the best.

Anyhow, I hope that there is no animosity towards me...but at this point, I don’t even know what to think.
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I'm glad that the thread did happen, though I don't agree with the harsh attacks. I believe that many people were antsy from the Cold Steel sale. But I haven't been here very long so I can't comment about some things that have been said.
But this thread did get me to start thinking about stuff.
I realized that it was me purchasing a Chinese OTF (that the mainspring broke on last week) on Amazon that actually led me to finding BF. The knife is not a fake clone or anything. The company just called it a camping knife or something like that and did not hide the fact that it was made in China.
But it got me to looking around to make sure that it wasn't a fake clone of a quality made knife. I have always been against clones and ripping off the creators of the original products. I have never bought pirated music or anything like that. If I want a book or music, I buy it. I don't copy it from pirates on the net.
I didn't find anything that looked exactly like it, so I bought it.
I am glad that I found BF and also CPK! I felt sick from TM being allowed to purchase a dealer's membership. Hopefully they will be gone soon and it will be a non-issue. And I appreciate Spark engaging more in the thread.
 
A preferred dealer list is better than what we have now. Then again, if you need to differentiate between dealers because this one clone dealer sells mostly stolen designs of our top manufacturers and does not belong along side our other dealers, I'm not sure the answer is to keep the one dealer around and elevate everyone else. Will there be basement level dealer list? :D

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say.
 
It's not "the one", I fear it is "the first". When rules are open, crooks rush in and shield themselves with said rules.
Getting to be a "BladeForums Dealer" should be a certifying procedure. Procedure to be defined, sure, but I think "shield".
 
craytab said:
A preferred dealer list is better than what we have now. Then again, if you need to differentiate between dealers because this one clone dealer sells mostly stolen designs of our top manufacturers and does not belong along side our other dealers, I'm not sure the answer is to keep the one dealer around and elevate everyone else. Will there be basement level dealer list? :D

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say.
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How's about a "Feedback" display next to a Dealer title but at all times and all Forums? Kind of like the user rating displayed on the Exchange... seems fair to me.
 
craytab said:
Do

we have to buy from the dealer to rate them? Cuz I ain't giving ganzomart my money.
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This dealer won't see a penny of my money, either.

The point is to have a readily visible indicator next to a Dealer's post. Some kind of rating system.

Just spit-balling an idea. The mechanics may not be feasible.
 
Since this seems to be an issue of an automated purchase of a membership working against what many find troubling ethical standings when compared against what many of us consider "stand up good guy" dealers that have been long standing contributors to the boards and the hobby/industry, why not split the difference, as has been suggested, and amend the TGBU Hall of Fame to include more dealers? It seems pretty sparse in there.

Perhaps updating the list to include more dealers that are pretty well known to be ethical and genuine contributing members of our community would partially solve this roadblock we have. It may take a bit of policing and working in the gray margins with some subjection, but I think a good 85% agreement could be reached.

What that would do, I think, would be to give folks looking to buy from an endorsed list based on intangibles like personableness/participation a place to start first. It would also give newer dealers something to aspire toward as getting on "the list" would mean folks who spend a lot of time here are probably good repeat customers who spend actual coin and would be a valuable share of the market. It would also allow garbage peddlers to waste 350 bucks by not getting a return on their investment, being watched closely, and then shown the door when they can't compete without cheating.

Just a thought and certainly easier said than done, but maybe dividing these two issues would get us all on the same page.
 
Spark said:
As for a "slap" imagine how I feel dealing with this thread & being compared to Judas Iscariot after what I've done for this community & industry.
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So, if one member engaged in a discussion makes an offensive remark, it’s appropriate to address everyone else participating in the dialogue as if they were the offending party?
“...after what I’ve done for this community and industry.” Were these contributions to the greater good done through volunteerism/consumer advocacy, or was there income/revenue generated in the process? At my job, I never get recognition for my contributions to my industry, but I get paid, and that’s all the pats on the back I need. If the “after what I’ve done for..” talk that I’ve heard in the past is any indicator, there’s a “don’t you know who I am” brewing in there right now too.
 
Fullflat said:
So, if one member engaged in a discussion makes an offensive remark, it’s appropriate to address everyone else participating in the dialogue as if they were the offending party?
“...after what I’ve done for this community and industry.” Were these contributions to the greater good done through volunteerism/consumer advocacy, or was there income/revenue generated in the process? At my job, I never get recognition for my contributions to my industry, but I get paid, and that’s all the pats on the back I need. If the “after what I’ve done for..” talk that I’ve heard in the past is any indicator, there’s a “don’t you know who I am” brewing in there right now too.
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Congratulations, you've earned a 1 month time out for this remark. Anyone else want to make a snide remark about how you value this site and what's been put into it?

The "revenue" earned off this website hasn't been enough for me to take a vacation in nearly 10 years. It's certainly not enough for me to put up with disrespect from people who clearly overestimate their standing.

But that's cool, folks. If this is the common perception, I'm certainly open to maximizing my revenue stream.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
Since this seems to be an issue of an automated purchase of a membership working against what many find troubling ethical standings when compared against what many of us consider "stand up good guy" dealers that have been long standing contributors to the boards and the hobby/industry, why not split the difference, as has been suggested, and amend the TGBU Hall of Fame to include more dealers? It seems pretty sparse in there.

Perhaps updating the list to include more dealers that are pretty well known to be ethical and genuine contributing members of our community would partially solve this roadblock we have. It may take a bit of policing and working in the gray margins with some subjection, but I think a good 85% agreement could be reached.

What that would do, I think, would be to give folks looking to buy from an endorsed list based on intangibles like personableness/participation a place to start first. It would also give newer dealers something to aspire toward as getting on "the list" would mean folks who spend a lot of time here are probably good repeat customers who spend actual coin and would be a valuable share of the market. It would also allow garbage peddlers to waste 350 bucks by not getting a return on their investment, being watched closely, and then shown the door when they can't compete without cheating.

Just a thought and certainly easier said than done, but maybe dividing these two issues would get us all on the same page.
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While it is a start, addressing the issue of differentiating reputable supporting dealers here and helping the members looking for legit dealers based on a bladeforums stamp of approval, those are only part of the equation.

There is still the issue of explaining to the great manufacturers that participate here, and are the pillars of our hobby, of why bladeforums has a supporting dealer that sells this sort of thing:

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Hopefully they will have the opportunity, and will chime in.
 
Spark said:
Congratulations, you've earned a 1 month time out for this remark. Anyone else want to make a snide remark about how you value this site and what's been put into it?

The "revenue" earned off this website hasn't been enough for me to take a vacation in nearly 10 years. It's certainly not enough for me to put up with disrespect from people who clearly overestimate their standing.

But that's cool, folks. If this is the common perception, I'm certainly open to maximizing my revenue stream.
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That was unwarranted and immature in my opinion. Just cause your pissed off, you are gonna ban people for questions and opinions. Dang.

Also, these are words from your own mouth...from the thread “bladeforums origin?”

Spark said:
Anyhow, as soon as I had control over this site and didn't have to answer to anyone, I changed how it operated. I don't like using BFC as a sales tool for 1SKS - I believe that it should be a resource for the knife community, and if the community is happy with it, the community as a whole will support it. I think it does ok, you guys are the ultimate judge in that regard.
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So what changed?

Mod sass? What is that even. We are grown ups here, asking questions you refuse to address.
I think maybe you need the time out...you have talked down about everyone in this thread, basically called them stupid and not as smart as you. It’s straight up wrong.
 
Congratulations lucky winner of another 1 month time out, Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery - if you can't read the simple rules about Mod Sass & abide, then it's time for you to take a break:
BladeForums Moderators are an all volunteer staff. They take time out of their busy days to help improve the online knife community as a whole - as such, do not harass, badger, belittle or otherwise disrespect them. It is an often-thankless job and making it difficult for them is a bannable offense. We have a zero tolerance policy for Moderator sass.
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I welcome and value constructive criticism. You do not get to come in here and show your ass to me, or the mods, period. You don't think it's fair how you are treated or think you aren entitled to something? Sorry, but them's the breaks.
 
craytab said:
While it is a start, addressing the issue of differentiating reputable supporting dealers here and helping the members looking for legit dealers based on a bladeforums stamp of approval, those are only part of the equation.

There is still the issue of explaining to the great manufacturers that participate here, and are the pillars of our hobby, of why bladeforums has a supporting dealer that sells this sort of thing:
Hopefully they will have the opportunity, and will chime in.
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craytab craytab you are officially on notice. You will stop posting screencaps of Topomart's website in this thread & others. At this point everyone is well aware of the fact that they sell knockoffs. We do not need you spamming screencaps over and over.

My position hasn't changed on this: knockoffs will not be advertised, sold, or discussed on this site. Period.

You trying to drag various manufacturers into this is noted. I've already expressed to more than one how I feel on this subject, privately.

This is your final warning.
 
craytab said:
While it is a start, addressing the issue of differentiating reputable supporting dealers here and helping the members looking for legit dealers based on a bladeforums stamp of approval, those are only part of the equation.

There is still the issue of explaining to the great manufacturers that participate here, and are the pillars of our hobby, of why bladeforums has a supporting dealer that sells this sort of thing:


Hopefully they will have the opportunity, and will chime in.
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I get where you are coming from. I just dont think we should let perfect be the enemy of good. I don't think this is going to be a fixable wide swath brush stroke, and I think we are going to be working in the confines of what the automated system allows to be purchased, what are enforceable forum rules, and what kind of ethics members value when it comes to buying their wares.

While in a perfect world it would be awesome to be an agent of karma and smack down all the cheaters, it can be impractical and I believe that Spark has presented his stance on how the site will handle the issue. What I am simply asking for is a way to help correct some of the damage that may be done to our more valued dealers by elevating them further in our standing if we can't simply cut out a potential cancer.

I know I am coming across as a passive "Hey, guys, let's not fight, now" kind of a pansy by not taking a hardline against a company that makes its money in large part by knocking off other brands, but a good bit of my day to day job as a COO is to negotiate what my boss (happens to be my dad) wants, which is 100% everything his way on his terms and what is actually feasible with our supplier in order to maintain a good working relationship.

The best we may be able to hope for is to make sure or cream of the crop is more visible than our bottom feeders and hope that the moderating staff can whack them with swift and severe infractions. Im not sure what the point amount is for dabbling in clones, but if it resulted in an instant perma-ban, that may convince those hoping to skirt the system from even trying. Losing $350 trying to sell a $29 knife is not good business. Hell, even if they break even before caught, whats the point of the effort?

I'm not sure this us going to be resolved to the point others hope for it to be, but I think we are going in circles.


*Edited to remove screen shots.
 
Spark said:
craytab craytab you are officially on notice. You will stop posting screencaps of Topomart's website in this thread & others. At this point everyone is well aware of the fact that they sell knockoffs. We do not need you spamming screencaps over and over.

My position hasn't changed on this: knockoffs will not be advertised, sold, or discussed on this site. Period.

You trying to drag various manufacturers into this is noted. I've already expressed to more than one how I feel on this subject, privately.

This is your final warning.
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Just reading this now. You got it. I'm done.
 
Well this has gotten ugly, In support of the fallen I will take 30 days off and go make a knife. I get along so much better with machines anyway.
(do timeouts prorate your membership?) Great site by the way and the only talky one I used, will see if my keys still work in 30. James
 
I've been following this in the various threads for a while, and I'm glad Spark weighed in. I think his idea of creating a separate thread to discuss possible changes to the way dealers are rated is a good idea, and it should be done when he or another one of the Mods has enough time to tightly police it to keep it from going off track. I like how passionate we all are, but this is a discussion that will need to be tightly monitored to keep it from going off the rails.

Spark said:
That's certainly an interesting thought. Considering the number of people who are in this thread claiming that they view a Dealer membership as some sort of endorsement, and that they look to the dealer list as a buying guide perhaps it's time to clearly delineate between who bought a membership, and who is actually a member of the community.
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Spark said:
I'm going to make a separate thread here in tech support for what this would entail
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As for my input, I dislike topomart, but I never really saw the paid dealer list as anything but a list of dealers who support the site by paying to advertise here. I've always used it it as a way to support the dealers who support a site I like. It's like a little extra support for the site on top of my gold membership. If I'm looking for an endorsement or a warning about a dealer I've never done business with before, I don't go to the paid dealer list, I go to the GB&U section of the site to see what other people have to say about the dealer. There are dealers on the paid dealer list that I would prefer not to use, and there are dealers on the list that I have seen go above and beyond to help me. Likewise, there are dealers not on the list who have great reputations in the GB&U, and who I would go to before some of the dealers on the paid dealer list.

That's why I really like Steely_Gunz Steely_Gunz 's idea of expanding the Hall of Fame section of the GB&U, that can be a place for people to endorse their favorite dealers, and it can be a place to send new people who are looking to buy from great dealers.
 
Silent H said:
As for my input, I dislike topomart, but I never really saw the paid dealer list as anything but a list of dealers who support the site by paying to advertise here. I've always used it it as a way to support the dealers who support a site I like. It's like a little extra support for the site on top of my gold membership. If I'm looking for an endorsement or a warning about a dealer I've never done business with before, I don't go to the paid dealer list, I go to the GB&U section of the site to see what other people have to say about the dealer. There are dealers on the paid dealer list that I would prefer not to use, and there are dealers on the list that I have seen go above and beyond to help me. Likewise, there are dealers not on the list who have great reputations in the GB&U, and who I would go to before some of the dealers on the paid dealer list.
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Correct opinion right here.
 
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