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Heat Treatment - Crystal Weaving Foundation

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by bluntcut, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    Let's see ultra fine grain (and sub-grain within) in context of chopping harsh materials: bone, wood and metal.

    W2 Cleaver 0.135" thick, ** Correction 65-65.5rc **
    18 dps edge.
    0.020" behind edge thick
    0.035" thick 1/8 up from apex
    0.060" thick 1/4 up from apex

     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  2. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    [​IMG]
    https://www.fei.com/products/sem/apreo-for-materials-science/

    CNSI has many cool instruments, for now all I need to operate ^ this basic instrument. Will find out access approved or denied in a couple weeks. For fallback - I can use metallography services instead of a more ideal self-serve-rental+consultation.

    =========

    Fun to tinkered with 26C3 steel 1.3%C quite pure low alloy carbon steel, which is similar to Hitachi White Steel. Per this instance of ht - Its microstructure isn't as fine as O1,10xx,W2,52100.

    [​IMG]

    I thought normalized at 1650F for 2 hrs would dissolved all cementites. Well, sure disappointed to see white-blobs throughout etched surface under 400x and 1K magnifications. Next 26C3 ht round, I will use higher normalize temperature to dissolve and distribute 99+% carbides.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  3. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade Knives, Big Brown Bear

    Mar 22, 2014
    Looking forward to it. I'm enjoying the edge properties of this steel.
     
    bluntcut likes this.
  4. dirc

    dirc

    Jan 31, 2018
    bluntcut likes this.
  5. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    Agree, it would be interesting to carbon%-parity comparison between O7 and 26C3 :thumbsup: So far O1 has best microstructure among tested steels.

    BCMW W2 64+rc Thin Cleaver Harsh Chopping Test

    Capability and damage mode test by chopping large dried cow bone.

    HT 3.0
    W2, 0.130" thick, 64+rc
    18dps, 0.015" behind edge thickness, 0.029" 1/8" from edge, 0.045" 1/4" from edge.

     
    emanuel_mat, DeadboxHero and willc like this.
  6. dirc

    dirc

    Jan 31, 2018
    What form (brand name?) of m2 do you have? I looked it up and it is _easily_ the most renamed steel type in existence!

    I would love for you to get your hands on Latrobe's version of it: 'double6' http://zknives.com/knives/steels/Latrobe/double_six.shtml
    they don't list any sulphur - so I'm hoping it is actually really low and clean...

    but other makers have good forms of m2 also: hitachi - yxm1, or german based thyssen krupp http://zknives.com/knives/steels/Thyssen-Krupp/3343.shtml

    my guess is m2 is a lot like d2, every steel maker has their own form of it, with different compositions and cleanliness values... please share if you know your original foundry ; )
     
    jpm2 likes this.
  7. rxavage

    rxavage

    810
    Aug 16, 2014
    I need to have bluntcut make a wire skinning knife for me. I’d like something that can hold an edge for more than a few uses and is tough enough so that I don’t have to worry about breaking the tip so easily.
     
  8. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    xvm1 looks intriguing, would be cool to test it. I bought M2 from AKS, so they probably know source of their M2. Subsequent ht of m2 turned out much better (appropriate per composition in context of my ht protocol), so I think tested m2 is good enough quality ingot steel. I didn't examined its microstructure for inclusions; bandings; etc. so actual quality tbd.

    Wire skinning/stripper edge is stiff (non-flexing) so worth consider: k390, 10v, cpm t15 at 66-68rc would provide very durable and long retention edge. Most edge impacts are deflection/skip against soft and uniform material Cu, Al, Sn-coated. Plastic and especially dirt/grit coated wire would dull more slowly for these wear resistance steels. Tip isn't taper, so hook bill or wharncliffe will be strong. Also most of the time, tip exiting the cable through plastic so incidental lateral shear will has low torque, hence most likely won't even lateral bend/flex the tip... all said and done - nothing is sure until you experience/live it :)
     
  9. rxavage

    rxavage

    810
    Aug 16, 2014
    I’d try whatever steel you think is best for the task. I skin thin wire to heavily jacketed cable and use my knife to open and pry things as well. Let’s talk price friend.
     
  10. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    We can communicate with email, please send to bcmw at flexbiz.com.
    'Pry' required blade to has certain attributes: full elasticity range, decent plasticity range as well, bulk/thickness strength. Of course bend corner curvature and pry/torque load will determine appropriate tip thickness. Thick blade has direct adverse affect on jacket thickness - i.e. more wedging and edge diving. 64rc cpm t15 0.09" thick would/could (need prototype) support sensible prying while maintain ease of glide between jacket and core.
     
  11. herisson

    herisson Knuckle dragging and mean minded Neanderthal Platinum Member

    Mar 11, 2013
    While your exploration of new boundaries for steel are definitely interesting, I must say that you have also great taste for knives : I like your simple and ergonomic shapes.
     
    bluntcut and jpm2 like this.
  12. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    BCMW W2 64rc thin cleaver - Part 2 of 2
    A follow up video on testing for edge damage by chop large dried cow bone.
    W2 64+rc, HT 3.0
    18 dps, 0.020" BET, 0.030" thick 1/8" from edge, 0.048" thick 1/4" from edge



    BCMW 52100 63rc bolo chopper - normal chopping test
    52100 1/4" thick bolo chopper
    HT 3.0 63+rc
    18dps, 0.018" bet, 0.035" thick 1/8" above edge, 0.065" thick 1/4" above edge

     
    emanuel_mat likes this.
  13. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    Test skinning/striping 8/3 & 10/2 Ga electrical cable

    CPM T-15, 0.067" thick, 68+rc
    18dps, 0.010" behind edge thickness

     
  14. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade Knives, Big Brown Bear

    Mar 22, 2014
    Great demonstration Luong, Strong work. That edge was nice too, what was the stone progression?
     
  15. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    Thanks Shawn.

    Edge was apexed with DMD 2x6 600 grits diamond plate on EdgePro at 18dps; freehand deburred and refined with 2k diamond; made 5-10 slices to newsprint to fold/bend weak dangler/wire; deburred with dmt ee. I call this sharpening progress as a refined 600 biting edge.

     
  16. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade Knives, Big Brown Bear

    Mar 22, 2014
    Very clean edge, was quieter than I expected, good testament of the sharpener, the steel and stone progression.

    T15 looks like an animal man. Killer edges and very stable looking from the video. I was enjoying watching how effortless the cutting was with a task that is pretty abusive on the edge.

    Most knives would edge fail bad doing that. Especially the "tougher" steels Everyone runs to when there edge chips, not realizing they need more strength and stability not raw shock resistance.



     
    bluntcut likes this.
  17. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    T15 sharpening characteristic is similar to M4, so easy to achieve high keenness edge, hard to refrain from making it too sharp. otoh sharpen 15V to this level - as you demonstrated: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkuZ4tTVpjM - requires high skills. For fairness sharpening skills(edge doping) test, please send me your CBN stone set along with 1um diamond strop - heheh.

    btw - 'just between you and me ;)' how much did you pay for your 15v hardness testing by Lisin Metallurgical Services? Nifty cool 67rc 15V blade.

     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  18. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade Knives, Big Brown Bear

    Mar 22, 2014
    That was a $50 hardness test :eek:

    But folks kept telling me that 15v doesn't go past 64-65 because that's what the spec sheet says :D:D I'm sure you're familiar with the situation.


    Folks have a lot to learn about what is possible.

    Haha Doesn't look like T15 needs any help from my stones:p

    Just got a ton of belts in. When I get finished with customer knives and out the door it's T15 time baby :cool:

     
    razor-edge-knives and bluntcut like this.
  19. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    [​IMG]

    * Support reference for SEM & EDS images (in this and subsequent posts):

    The research reported here made use of the shared facilities of the
    National Science Foundation (NSF) Materials Research Science and
    Engineering Center (MRSEC) at UC Santa Barbara supported though NSF DMR 1720256. The UC Santa Barbara MRSEC is a member of the Materials Research Facilities Network (www.mrfn.org).

    SEM image of the same O1 sample above

    [​IMG]

    EDS scanned of NJSB W2 (bought early 2019). *NOTE: qualitative data
    _Kv 15.0
    _Mag 65323
    _Tilt 0.0
    _Detector ADC1
    _Averaging 1
    _DataRange 0-4095
    _Label SE1
    _Matrix 256x200
    _MicronsPerPixX 0.021
    _MicronsPerPixY 0.021

    [​IMG]

    Carbon density/distribution
    [​IMG]

    Vanadium density/distribution
    [​IMG]

    Other elements distributed quite evenly.
     
  20. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade Knives, Big Brown Bear

    Mar 22, 2014
    Any plans for polished and etched SEM Micrographs?

    I'd love to see some 52100 btw.

    That Lisin Metallurgical place has SEM.

    But they charge $250 per hour to run.

    Yikes

     

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