Is CPM3V worth the extra money over 1095 Cro Van?

The s35vn in the KA BAR Snody line is very nice :D and pairs great with BK&T 1095
WP_003457_zpshcop9x64.jpg
 
I would buy a Becker in 3v and I think others would. It would be great to have the option.
 
I can be a prancing steel prince in my dandy clothes as much as anyone. I turned my nose up to the BK-2 because it had a few failures in the untold numbers produced. But I seemed to want some PERFECT knife and steel. Impervious to abuse and a one in ten thousand manufacturing glitch. Then I look at the hatchet and knives (some are folders) that I have found metal detecting, manufactured in the late 1700's. And those most basic of crappy iron tools, by todays standards India probably spews out better stuff, were more that enough for the North American fur trade to thrive for a few hundred years. And those men LIVED by their tools and knowledge. So maybe my focus should be more on how to use my tools as opposed to finding that latest greatest steel of the month/year.
 
Fuori said:
How is 3V in temperatures below zero?
Click to expand...

Most of high carbon martensitic steels have relatively high transition temperature. Exact range depends on alloy composition, heat treatment and grain structure.
Don't have exact data, but 3V should be fine to about -20F where it should still be tougher than D2 at room temperature.
 
Thank you. So, 1095 would go even lower then? Not that I ever plan on being in weather colder than that I'm just curious.
 
3V is an excellent steel. I use it almost exclusively also. It's a lot more forgiving temperature-wise than most other steels, although I'm usually thinking about the upper end, because it has a higher tempering point, so it doesn't lose temper as easily as 1095 if you're sharpening with a power tool. It's good stuff.
 
Fuori said:
Thank you. So, 1095 would go even lower then? Not that I ever plan on being in weather colder than that I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

Keep on mind that transition temperature refers to "ductile to brittle transition", and toughness is directly related to ductility. 3V is so much tougher than 1095 (and 1095CV) to begin with, so it would be much better choice for subzero temperatures.

That said, you can go lower than -20F but you have to be aware of what you are doing. Batoning at -40F is just a very bad idea.
 
upnorth said:
I can be a prancing steel prince in my dandy clothes as much as anyone. I turned my nose up to the BK-2 because it had a few failures in the untold numbers produced. But I seemed to want some PERFECT knife and steel. Impervious to abuse and a one in ten thousand manufacturing glitch. Then I look at the hatchet and knives (some are folders) that I have found metal detecting, manufactured in the late 1700's. And those most basic of crappy iron tools, by todays standards India probably spews out better stuff, were more that enough for the North American fur trade to thrive for a few hundred years. And those men LIVED by their tools and knowledge. So maybe my focus should be more on how to use my tools as opposed to finding that latest greatest steel of the month/year.
Click to expand...

Look, those "basic" carbon steel tools are very good. But that's because they were made by craftsmen who knew exactly what type of tool they were making, and how to heat treat to get good results. There was a lot of incentive to get it right too, because if you didn't, your business dried up quickly, because, as you say, people lived and died by their tools. Those cheap mass produced Indian and Chinese blade-like objects aren't made to be good tools. They're made to look cool to the mall-ninja crowd, who will likely never use it for much. They get dull and unusable very quickly, because they don't really care what they use, and they're not thinking about how to get good performance out of it. They're just looking for a quick buck from uneducated people.

Think about this: do you think those people in those days, who NEEDED to live by their tools, would have taken a well-made knife using modern metallurgy, over their own tools, if they saw how it performed and oculd afford it? As Dan Keffeler told me once, tamahagane is famous because it was the best stuff available in that era. Ditto wootz/damascus steel. Swords made from higher quality stuff became legend. If there had been a mountain of 3V in Japan, it's entirely possible we'd all be speaking Japanese today.

Not that there's not something to be said for knowing how to use your tools. But all things being equal, there's also something to be said for having and using GOOD tools. Kabar does a great job with their heat treat. That's a big factor in what makes them so good. 1095CV by itself isn't necessarily great; it needs to be done well. If they used 3V, it probably wouldn't sell that well because of the much higher cost we'd see, but they would be great blades.
 
Bladite said:
as pointed out, there are Beckers in some exotic steels

the BK77 being a fine example

and it did not sell well for Camillus. at all.

.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing those years ago and regreted not buying one.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Look, those "basic" carbon steel tools are very good. But that's because they were made by craftsmen who knew exactly what type of tool they were making, and how to heat treat to get good results. There was a lot of incentive to get it right too, because if you didn't, your business dried up quickly, because, as you say, people lived and died by their tools.

-Actually, they were made for cheap mass production because a trader wanted to maximize profit by trading low cost items. This is one of the reasons why rum was so popular, it was cheap.

Those cheap mass produced Indian and Chinese blade-like objects aren't made to be good tools. They're made to look cool to the mall-ninja crowd, who will likely never use it for much. They get dull and unusable very quickly, because they don't really care what they use, and they're not thinking about how to get good performance out of it. They're just looking for a quick buck from uneducated people.

-Unfortunetaly the traders were usually unscrupulous and wanted a quick buck from uneducated people also. Eurocentric education anyway.

Think about this: do you think those people in those days, who NEEDED to live by their tools, would have taken a well-made knife using modern metallurgy, over their own tools, if they saw how it performed and oculd afford it? As Dan Keffeler told me once, tamahagane is famous because it was the best stuff available in that era. Ditto wootz/damascus steel. Swords made from higher quality stuff became legend. If there had been a mountain of 3V in Japan, it's entirely possible we'd all be speaking Japanese today.

-To this day when metal detecting around fur trade sites you will find iron tools near shore. The axes etc. were so inexpensive and basicly valueless compared to the fur, that many traders tossed many of their redundant iron tools, or just left them by the canoe after packing the fur. If you broke a knife, you reached into a keg for a new one. I find broken 1700's knives.

Not that there's not something to be said for knowing how to use your tools. But all things being equal, there's also something to be said for having and using GOOD tools. Kabar does a great job with their heat treat. That's a big factor in what makes them so good. 1095CV by itself isn't necessarily great; it needs to be done well. If they used 3V, it probably wouldn't sell that well because of the much higher cost we'd see, but they would be great blades.[/QUOTE

-I do not dispute that higher end tools are usefull and a pleasure to use. My original point was that North America was carved out of the wilderness initially with plain Jane iron tools and extreme wilderness survival knowledge.
Click to expand...
 
Im not a metal expert but years ago people got by with alot worse. Corvette isnt a Lamborghini but it will get you where you have to go and do it faster than legally allowed. I have several 440c knives even a couple mtechs that i really like cause they sharpen up really good and hold an edge. It all depends on how much you can afford to spend and how much will it improve your status.
 
TBL said:
This has me thinking.... BK 15 in s35vn :D
Click to expand...

That seems likely....given that they couldn't even sell the 1095CV ones they had...:rolleyes:




NOT!



Okay, I'd love to see Ethan's designs in CPM steel, but I'll be honest: They'd likely be lookers only for me, given that the current 1095CV performs well and is at the right price point. Not that I haven't spent some coin for knives in 3V (or other CPM steels), but why would I want to spend triple the $$ for a BK16 when I could just get three of them? The profile and the grind would be the same, so....it would only be a question of edge retention and some other related factors. I'd rather have three of them to have on ALL my packs. BK&T's are fantastic the way they are currently made, IMO, and the blade geometries just plain work. Why gild the lily for incremental gains?
 
I only have 1 blade in 3V, and can't rightly say it's any good. I've never cut anything with it. But, I got it from Bark River, who I believe does good work so.....Anyway the reason I do nt use it has nothing to do with the choice of steel. It has more to do with it coming with the crappiest sheath I've ever had for a knife.

I have a lot of 1095; probably more than I need. I can rightly say I like it and won't stop using it. At least from KA-BAR that is.

Having said that, a 16 in 3V would go in the cart on first production because I'm of the belief that KA-BAR would do it right.

Is 3V better than 1095? I don't know, and don't really care to know. It's all subjective anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top