Is Steel Will using fake M390 and an unknown manufacturer?

In the YouTube comments, there are at least two users claiming their M390 Steel Will knives feel like they are under-performing.

"I also have some troubles with my Modus F25. I have got the carbon fiber one. I use it regurarly on my job to open plastic boxes and cutting cardboard and I emediatly saw that it dulled very quickly. Maybe not M390? I have M390 on my Benchmade, ZT’s and LionSteel and have zero troubles with them.."

I will be interested to see how this plays out, seems that Steel Will reached out to the reviewer and wanted to look into the matter more. I was very interested in purchasing the more budget friendly D2 version, hopefully others can test it and see if it holds up to D2 standards. Until then, I'll hold off on my purchase.
 
ATJ999 said:
May have missed it, but he never mentioned ease of sharpening. That would give more information to go by too.
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He mentioned it several times in the comment section.
 
Mo2 said:
2018-02-01_11_50_32-_Steel_Underperforming_-_M390_in_Steel_Will_M.png
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Respect to them for this response. It's exactly what it should have been.
 
Very interested in how this turns out. My 3.5" Cutjack has performed well for me but I have not performed any tests like this, I have only sharpened it once but it took an edge similarly to my other M390 blades.
 
Here's to hoping that it was just a very small bad batch. It would be unfortunate if a lot of these turned up in the wild, especially if not many people are aware. I own a couple steel will knives and I have a carbon fiber modus on pre-order from October. I'm also interested in their intrique lineup, and their ant-lock. This whole thing is far from over, but at least they are taking steps in the right direction.
 
`br4dz- said:
Here's to hoping that it was just a very small bad batch. It would be unfortunate if a lot of these turned up in the wild, especially if not many people are aware. I own a couple steel will knives and I have a carbon fiber modus on pre-order from October. I'm also interested in their intrique lineup, and their ant-lock. This whole thing is far from over, but at least they are taking steps in the right direction.
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Sorry if I'm derailing the thread.
Disappointing if true.
Iv'e been waiting for these to drop forever it seems and it looks like it might be quite a while longer.

http://knifenews.com/what-happened-to-steel-wills-ant-lock/
 
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Maserin quality is below all others in Maniago, Italy:

1. LionSteel
2. Fox
3. Viper
4. Maserin

I do have a Maserin Bulldog flipper (N690) and the quality is just okay. There’s a Maserin AM3 flipper with M390 for just $140.

I’ve had a Steel Will Cutjack Mini M390 made in Italy since July 2017. No issues at all but it’s just regular cutting. I don’t know if it’s made by Viper or Maserin. The quality is good.
 
RamZar said:
Maserin quality is below all others in Maniago, Italy:

1. LionSteel
2. Fox
3. Viper
4. Maserin

I do have a Maserin Bulldog flipper (N690) and the quality is just okay. There’s a Maserin AM3 flipper with M390 for just $140.

I’ve had a Steel Will Cutjack Mini M390 made in Italy since July 2017. No issues at all but it’s just regular cutting. I don’t know if it’s made by Viper or Maserin. The quality is good.
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I've not had any budget knives from masirin but sofar they are nice for the cost. am2 and am3. viper has to be the worst I've seen and heard from feedback

the cutjack is made by masirin per Peters conversion between him and steel will. and everyone has nothing but high praises for it. took apart my am2 and its fairly nice. though it is heavier than id like. the $130 I paid for it is fine, I'd buy another too, but I think I'll get a cf /m390 steelwill instead.
 
Mo2 said:
I've not had any budget knives from masirin but sofar they are nice for the cost. am2 and am3. viper has to be the worst I've seen and heard from feedback

the cutjack is made by masirin per Peters conversion between him and steel will. and everyone has nothing but high praises for it. took apart my am2 and its fairly nice. though it is heavier than id like. the $130 I paid for it is fine, I'd buy another too, but I think I'll get a cf /m390 steelwill instead.
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The Maserin Bulldog is not cheap for N690 but the quality is not there.

I’ve had nothing but good knives from Viper. This includes many older back locks and some newer frame locks.

LionSteel is in a class by itself as evidenced by winning the Manufacturing Quality Award at the Blade Show.

I’ve had no issues with Fox but mine are mostly older liner locks.
 
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I bought 50 feet of 55/128” rope (don’t ask, it was all my local store had that was close to 10mm).

I plan on testing a SAK to make sure my results are comparable with a knife he’s tested, then testing the steel Will modus. If I have enough leftover, I’ll test an m4 blade and a k390 blade for more data points for comparison.
 
Okay.. so preliminary results are not looking good. I was hoping this was an isolated issue.

I tested the SAK and got 67 cuts before it would no longer easily slice paper. This is higher than the results he got by about 76% (or about 29 cuts), but I kind of expected this, bearing in mind I was using a lansky edge at 20dps, which he would probably refer to as “unleashed” on his testing.

The steel will modus under the same conditions went 89 cuts before it would not slice paper reliably. And yes, I checked for a burr.

Looking at the edge under a machinist’s loupe, it looks as though the edge has microchipped like crazy or rolled very slightly. I’m going to try some Spyderco k390 to see what numbers I get.
 
M. Johnwell said:
Okay.. so preliminary results are not looking good. I was hoping this was an isolated issue.

I tested the SAK and got 67 cuts before it would no longer easily slice paper. This is higher than the results he got by about 76% (or about 29 cuts), but I kind of expected this, bearing in mind I was using a lansky edge at 20dps, which he would probably refer to as “unleashed” on his testing.

The steel will modus under the same conditions went 89 cuts before it would not slice paper reliably. And yes, I checked for a burr.

Looking at the edge under a machinist’s loupe, it looks as though the edge has microchipped like crazy or rolled very slightly. I’m going to try some Spyderco k390 to see what numbers I get.
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Yeah that's not good at all. Leaning closer and closer to canceling my carbon fiber modus pre-order.
 
`br4dz- said:
58 HRC isn't low for M390. 58-62 is about the norm for M390.
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Rockwell C hardness scale is not a linear scale, rather it is logarithmic.

This means that the difference in hardness between 61 and 62 is greater than the difference in hardness between 60 and 61. As you go up each point on the scale the difference between each point becomes greater.
 
The "clearly he got a bad one" argument is getting pretty old.

There is no margin for error when it comes to heat treatment and no excuse for selling sub par steel to people knowing they have no way to verify the quality.

Pretty grimey stuff. Hats off to cedric for keeping them honest.
 
Lapedog said:
Rockwell C hardness scale is not a linear scale, rather it is logarithmic.

This means that the difference in hardness between 61 and 62 is greater than the difference in hardness between 60 and 61. As you go up each point on the scale the difference between each point becomes greater.
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I fully understand the differences in rockwell, but M390 is specifically listed to be heat treated between 58-62, therefore 58 is not low, it's right in line with Bohler's specs. 61/62 is on the higher end of heat treats for the steel. I'm not sure why everyone has this idea that because M390 has fantastic edge retention that all knives made with it are heat treated at 61+.

EDIT: In fact, if I recall, most of my M390 blades are treated right around 59-60 HRC, and they hold their edges extremely well.
 
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M. Johnwell said:
Just finished, got 221 cuts with a Spyderco k390 urban. Same edge treatment as the others which leads me to believe the heat treat isn’t great on the modus..
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Your tests are pretty similar to what Pete had experienced. I'd say there is something more going on here than just a bad batch of knives or bad heat treat. Out of the 2 actual usage results we have, both have been subpar. Until someone tests a modus that runs in line with that M390 should be doing (other than their own in house testing, cough), than Steel Will has some 'splaining to do.
 
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