Is Steel Will using fake M390 and an unknown manufacturer?

Lapedog said:
Rockwell C hardness scale is not a linear scale, rather it is logarithmic.

This means that the difference in hardness between 61 and 62 is greater than the difference in hardness between 60 and 61. As you go up each point on the scale the difference between each point becomes greater.
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Agreed. Thanks for pointing this out, as many clearly were not aware of it in this thread, based on the discussion thus far.
 
M. Johnwell said:
Okay.. so preliminary results are not looking good. I was hoping this was an isolated issue.

I tested the SAK and got 67 cuts before it would no longer easily slice paper. This is higher than the results he got by about 76% (or about 29 cuts), but I kind of expected this, bearing in mind I was using a lansky edge at 20dps, which he would probably refer to as “unleashed” on his testing.

The steel will modus under the same conditions went 89 cuts before it would not slice paper reliably. And yes, I checked for a burr.

Looking at the edge under a machinist’s loupe, it looks as though the edge has microchipped like crazy or rolled very slightly. I’m going to try some Spyderco k390 to see what numbers I get.
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contact steelwill about this.
 
The reality is there is nothing special in how many of them actually perform, especially with no random mixing of the testing medium...

Because you expect a large difference, if you don't mix thoroughly the medium samples to make them truly random, you get a tougher to cut (but similar looking) sample and it can look like the steel underperforms... Cutting mediums can vary by much more than any two steels, and still look the same.

Here's how K390 actually performed with very well mixed samples, and it was hardly distinguishable from a $1 Chinese 420 knife... In a few runs the 420 went a lot closer, so the difference was not even consistent...


Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
The reality is there is nothing special in how many of them actually perform, especially with no random mixing of the testing medium...

Because you expect a large difference, if you don't mix thoroughly the medium samples to make them truly random, you get a tougher to cut (but similar looking) sample and it can look like the steel underperforms... Cutting mediums can vary by much more than any two steels, and still look the same.

Here's how K390 actually performed with very well mixed samples, and it was hardly distinguishable from a $1 Chinese 420 knife... In a few runs the 420 went a lot closer, so the difference was not even consistent...


Gaston
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Just a reminder PSA: Everything "Gaston" posts is known bunk and should be ignored. Carry on, people.
 
Gaston444 said:
The reality is there is nothing special in how many of them actually perform, especially with no random mixing of the testing medium...
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What randomization is possible when you are using one piece of rope? This is the test that was used not cardboard.
 
Okay, after further testing, I think the lansky edge I was putting on might have been the issue.

I put a coarser edge on with diamond stones and ceramics (unfortunately by hand so it’s not going to be as consistent) and the modus cut 245 cuts before it would no longer easily slice paper. It probably could have done 20 cuts more, but it was right on the edge of cleanly cutting paper when I stopped.

I retested with a lansky edge and got 84 cuts. My best guess as to why this is boils down to the fact that I don’t have diamond stones for my lansky, so I don’t think it was capable of doing anything with the carbides aside from just eroding them out all at once. If anyone has any other thoughts as to why the performance was hindered so much, I’d like to hear them.
 
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That's a heck of a difference, 84 vs 245. What are the lansky stones, aluminum oxide, silicon carbide, ?
Wonder what the result would be with lansky diamond stones.
Also wonder what it would be like straight off the diamond, a few strokes on bare denim to clean the edge, and omit the ceramic.
 
Hey Everyone, Pete here (the guy in the vid)

I posted the knife back to Steel Will that day I did the second vid and it arrived in the states today according to my tracking.

I was puzzled about the result, but as I stress in the video its just one knife and their response has been adequate, in my opinion, so far.

To put myself at ease I found the knife I had on hand with the closest blade geometry (sabre/flat ground dark earth american lawman) and put the same edge on it the same way and it cut the rope 370 times. Just to be sure my sharpening skillz werent the issue!

I would strongly suggest folks test their knives (maybe not to the strenuous degree I tend to) and see how they feel themselves. A few folks feel theors are soft, but plenty of people have had great experience. I am definitely not a scientist I am just a backyard dude who tests and roughly tries put a little order into an attribute of cutlery that is largely just anecdotal assertions (“x steel is better than y because it feels like it lasts longer” is often the best one can get)

A couple times I’ve had weird results, but there are way too many variables to my tests to get too worried in the first instance about one knife. I have another modus on the way (sourced independantly) and will do the same stuff again once its here.

I would love for the companies who make steel to ‘verify’ the makers with a tick or something to remove doubts. That would be great.


I’ll do another follow up vid or two on this one as a matter of prioriry :)
 
Oh and I used diamond stone lansky system but as you saw, did a few different edges and finishes, some stopped at 600 grit diamond, others all
the way through to polish. Tried to give it a fair shake
 
cedric.ada said:
Hey Everyone, Pete here (the guy in the vid)

I posted the knife back to Steel Will that day I did the second vid and it arrived in the states today according to my tracking.

I was puzzled about the result, but as I stress in the video its just one knife and their response has been adequate, in my opinion, so far.

To put myself at ease I found the knife I had on hand with the closest blade geometry (sabre/flat ground dark earth american lawman) and put the same edge on it the same way and it cut the rope 370 times. Just to be sure my sharpening skillz werent the issue!

I would strongly suggest folks test their knives (maybe not to the strenuous degree I tend to) and see how they feel themselves. A few folks feel theors are soft, but plenty of people have had great experience. I am definitely not a scientist I am just a backyard dude who tests and roughly tries put a little order into an attribute of cutlery that is largely just anecdotal assertions (“x steel is better than y because it feels like it lasts longer” is often the best one can get)

A couple times I’ve had weird results, but there are way too many variables to my tests to get too worried in the first instance about one knife. I have another modus on the way (sourced independantly) and will do the same stuff again once its here.

I would love for the companies who make steel to ‘verify’ the makers with a tick or something to remove doubts. That would be great.


I’ll do another follow up vid or two on this one as a matter of prioriry :)
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Well ...... .it s internet/forums at the end .Everyone have right to do or write whatever he want . So I too .....I don t believe one word about your test/video or in your ability to sharpen steel like M390 .
 
Natlek said:
No photo no fish ...................the old saying from this area.
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Gary graley is a well respected member, if he says m390 stained cutting sausage I believe him.

What I AM skeptical of if Gary says his m390 knife stained, is the steel actually m390. I've used m390 for years, swimming, cutting acidic foods, NEVER a stain.
 
shinyedges said:
Gary graley is a well respected member, if he says m390 stained cutting sausage I believe him.

What I AM skeptical of if Gary says his m390 knife stained, is the steel actually m390. I've used m390 for years, swimming, cutting acidic foods, NEVER a stain.
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My son use/have Linder/Solingen knife in M390 steel ,60 hrc .Nothing special , 150 Euro small knife . That thing is incredible in ANY aspect ! In ANY aspect !!! Rust on M390 ?????????????????????
 
shinyedges said:
Says every reputable knife maker and tradesmen whose come across Gaston. Not to mention 99.99% of us regulars who are pretty damn experienced with steels.
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Long running thread about him: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/gaston444.1483855/

That said, My thoughts in this matter are simple. No scientific testing had been done. This is a collection of anecdotes and a thread that begs the question of whether a company lied about it's steel without any evidence. The QRTRMSTR threads have a paper trail showing order slips from China when claiming that knives were not of the quality or authenticity that the maker claims. Until you show me that, @`br4dz-, you have no claim and are an agitator.
 
The language barrier is tough, I don't really know how to respond. I can say, m390 is VERY rust resistant.
Natlek said:
My son use/have Linder/Solingen knife in M390 steel ,60 hrc .Nothing special , 150 euro Euro small knife . That thing is incredible in ANY aspect ! In ANY aspect !!! Rust on M390 ?????????????????????
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joeldworkin307 said:
Long running thread about him: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/gaston444.1483855/

That said, My thoughts in this matter are simple. No scientific testing had been done. This is a collection of anecdotes and a thread that begs the question of whether a company lied about it's steel without any evidence. The QRTRMSTR threads have a paper trail showing order slips from China when claiming that knives were not of the quality or authenticity that the maker claims. Until you show me that, @`br4dz-, you have no claim and are an agitator.
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Many problems that are first brought up here have no tests. That doesn't mean there is no problem. If one person has an issue it could be anything. If others are having the same problems it comes to light and an issue is acknowledged. Bark river comes to mind.
 
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