OT: Gun guys...can't afford, don't need, won't be able to hunt with..

Another way to put it....Never take a handgun to a rifle fight.

 

To quote a friend of mine


You use a pistol to fight to your rifle

 

...that you so foolishly left in the first place.

J

 

It'll be with me the next time I go out with my inlaws

 

Damn!!!! Are they That bad?

 

Probably not that bad, but I bet it keeps them a seat's length away.



munk

 

There's a big gun show coming up where I live soon. I might go and check out the SKS and others. See what they run now, see if I like the feel, etc. I don't have any money now, but it should be fun!

Nam

 

Look for any Saiga's that might be around at the show. A week ago last Friday I picked one up NIB for $209 with one ten round magazine in 7.62x39. If you see one for $250 in that caliber or in .308 with an 8 round magazine for under $300, well, I can't tell you what to do, but I'd make that thing disappear into my trunk. And I mean immediately before someone else grabs it. Fill out the 4473 with your right hand without letting it go with your left hand til it's a done deal.

The Saiga is a Russian made AK fitted with a regular looking buttstock and a trigger moved far enough back so you can reach it without having a separate pistol grip. That and a redesigned magazine that won't let a standard AK military magazine lock up properly let it get into the country as a sporting rifle.

EAA stopped importing it. Another importer is supposed to be bringing more in about mid-March. After the Assault Weapon Ban (AWB) sunsetted they even were allowed to import 30 round mags that were Saiga specific. Problem is in 1998 the BATF decided future imports of rifles that could accept a millitary magazine would not be deemed importable under the 'sporting purposes" clause.

Thus you can import magazines, military or not of greater than ten rounds. You can't import the rifles, though, unless they a) don't take military mags; or
b) have 10 or fewer *designated evil* parts that are foreign made. If they are imported as parts kits and then assembled using US parts to keep the count at ten or under they are allowed as being US made. The Saiga's get in under a). Other US companies do b) and import the kits and use american made parts. You can bring in a Saiga and convert it, but it costs more to convert yourself than buying preconverted.

The important thing to me is that for $209 plus the cost of a spare mag ( $15 to $30 - I paid $15 ) you have a brand new best quality Russian made SKS equivalent that takes detachable ten round magazines. And those can be modified to hold 15 rounds. If the mag modifications are legal, that is.

 

You can convert a Saiga to a pre-ban (ak-47) configuration too, with a drill press and a dremel. Search google for converting saiga. I still want an ak from the 100 series.

 

Yvsa the only difference between my inlaws and outlaws is the spelling
They can probably tell you the directions to all of the State institutions in Ga
The county institutions may be a little bit more trouble ( after all we have 156 counties I think ). I often see them leave in rustbucket hubcapless processions to see whoever got crossed up with the law this month

I must agree with Rusty when it comes to Siagas I have a Siaga 12
that is a monster. It will consistantly put 5 rounds of 00 buck downrange
in 3-5 seconds without taking your shoulder off. The magazine is a little tricky
but you can work around it.

And munk it gives me a least 26 inches of separation.

 

Rusty is saying the new importer may be bringing in large cap mags for the Saiga anway, so I'd hold off on conversions.

Rusty is a mad dog. I have two AK weapons and don't need another. For the price of the Saiga, I'm getting an excellent condition Russian SKS instead. I miss the SKS. I read yesterday the Saiga's were the best stampings- the tech has improved and improved. Very fine sardine cans. (really)

Hopefully, the Saiga's are more accurate than AKs.

.............

26" sounds like a good peace to me.
Course, a large Ganga Ram thrown next to you on the seat would do the same.


munk

 

But I am a medicated mad dog.

 

Well crap, I'm still not putting out enough plants to skate people over the top I guess.:grumpy:
Mayhaps when I get my next one or two if I go that far without getting a red one.
Seems too me that these cacti are an awful lot like corn cobs, except that when you get a red one you know you've been ass raped instead of plant nourished.

 

The unsigned red ones- the greatest invention for passive aggressive weenie hostility on the boards.



munk

 

An SKS is OK and in most jurisdictions it's not considered an 'assault rifle' Yeah, yeah, I know what the 'classical' definition of what an 'assault rifle' is, but with todays laws, you have to look at what the system refers to as an 'assault rifle'.

IMHO, accuracy and reliability are the two most important things in a rifle. I'm also an advocate of having one or two excellent, top quality rifles instead of a whole collection of beat up surplus or mediocre weapons.

And yes, most surplus weapons without a bit of work are not the best of hunting weapons compared to what they could be.

I noticed that the original poster on this thread lives in Wisconson. That means it gets cold. You need a rifle that can operate in miserable conditions.

During the Alaska State Trooper assault rifle test in the early 1980's, done outside of Fairbanks in the middle of winter, the only three weapons which passed muster used an AK derived gas system (Galil, FNC, Valmet), and two were outright AK copies (Galil, Valmet).

Take note that the Canadian military still issues to their 'Rangers' (Eskimo scouts) the venerable Enfield No.4 MkI. Also note that one of the favorite weapons of many Innuit (Eskimo) arctic hunters is the 5.56mm Ruger Mini-14.

I remember reading once on the web of some gun 'experts' talking of the best whopper magnums for dropping caribou (reindeer). A couple of guys in the discussion were heading up to a reindeer farm in Greenland to zap a couple of reindeer. At least one of these guys went on at length about how semi-automatics, especially 'assault rifles' were 'worthless' for hunting, no self-respecting hunter would ever use one, and they should all be banned.

A day later on one of the only TV shows I bother to watch, 'Globetrekker', the host, Ian Wright, stopped by that very same Greenland reindeer farm and the Icelander who ran it, Stefán Hrafn Magnússon, went out and shot a reindeer to fill his larder.

http://www.randburg.com/gr/isortoq.html

Know what Mr. Magnússon, who lives the life on a continuous basis, used for his real life arctic substinance hunting? A stainless steel 5.56mm Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle with a 20 round magazine and a simple fixed 4X32mm rifle scope.

Here is a neat rifle. It's called the M10 and it's a very accurate, modern, updated Lee Enfield action with a picatinney sight rail, iron peep sights, and the 7.62x39mm version uses standard AK mags and has a 16" barrel. The .308 versions use M-14 mags.

http://www.tristarsportingarms.com/m10rifles.htm

 

That M-10 is pretty neat looking. If it's halfway affordable, it looks like it'd make a great truck gun.

Not too surprising about the dude with the stainless Mini-14. Alot of people I've met up here swear that Mini-14's and M-16's (Courtesy of the Army) have killed more polar bears than any other gun up here, in the remote villages.

The State Trooper testing sounds interesting though. As of a few years ago the SRT team had a choice of M-16, MP-5 or an 870 with a fourteen inch barrel. The standard troopers got an 870 and an AR-15. Cant say the M-16's and MP-5s would be my personal weapon of choice, but...When I took the family hiking up in Hatcher Pass I ran into a "training exercise with the State Troopers all geared up...I didn't wanna p!ss any of them off...

When I asked the nearest one if it was a good idea to take the family on a day hike there he looked at me like I was paranoid. "why of course it's okay to go hiking here, why wouldn't it be?" (Spoken as I'm looking at a couple dozen fully camoed out armed men walking around with select fire weapons)
haha...gotta love that cop humor...

 

I can't imagine the M-14 deals a swift death to a polar bear. 5.56 (I may be wrong) doesn't seem big enough for such a big, tough animal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a bigger caliber would be better.

Luckily, I live in Iowa. Not too many polar bears 'round here!

Nam

 

It depends a lot on the range and shot placement.

For hunting polar bear with a Mini-14 it just depends on how good of a shot you are and how brave you feel.

Shot placement is key. One of the largest recorded grizzly bears ever killed was shot up in Canada by a desperate, scared teenage Indian girl in the 1950's who dropped it with one shot of the now obsolete .22long solid point (a 'long' was basically a 'long rifle' case with a 'short' bullet) from a single shot bolt action Sears & Roebuck mail order rifle. She knew she could never outrun it on flat ground and it was obvious that the bear had picked up the scent of her and her boyfriend as they tried to hide from the bear behind a bush. One hasty but well aimed shot and the grizzly dropped like a sack of wet cement. Just to be sure, she walked up to the downed bear and, one by one, fired her remaining 6 rounds into it's head.

The projectile out of a Mini-14's barrel is traveling in the 3000fps neightborhood, around mach-3, depending upon the load in the cartridge. However, due to the light weight of the bullet it looses it's lethal velocity very fast.

Most of the 5.56mm's lethality comes from hydrostatic shock from the bullet's super-sonic shock wave and from bullet expansion and fragmentation (military ball tends to break into lots of fragments if enough speed is present). The older style 55gr M193 5.56mm military round, when fired at a human target within 150m will often leave an exit wound in a man the size of a softball or a grapefruit, leaving a shocking amount of internal damage in it's wake.

You hit a polar bear in the butt at 400m with a Mini-14 you'll just make it mad. If you hit it in the head from 150m or less you'll shatter it's skull and drop it in it's tracks.

One of the favorite tricks of the Indians up north is to bushwhack their game while it's in the water. They are often pretty good shots and excellent hunters. They'll even harvest small whales by shooting them from the shore with a hunting rifle.

Probably one of the reasons that the Mini-14 is so popular in the arctic is that it's very lethal within the ranges that many hunt (most hunting kills in N. America are made at 180m or less), it's light and handy, it's reliable in the cold, ammo is common and inexpensive, and you can carry a lot of ammo for it, like say you're going out into the bush for a while.

It's worth noting that the Mini-14 has been one of the few centerfire semi-auto rifles with a detachable magazine not banned or heavily restricted by legislation in Canada, Callifornia, New Zealand, etc.

 

Ten round fixed SKS mags are available cheap since every Bubba that got an SKS promptly removed them and replaced with thirty round duckbill detachables that didn't work worth ( fill in the blank ).

Interestingly enough, the ten round fixed mags can be modified to hold 14 or 15 rounds according to my gunsmith friend. Personally, if I were to try something like that I'd have it done on a spare I could afford to lose if it didn't work out.