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POOR customer service

Discussion in 'Survive! Knives' started by Ramojung, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. Psybull

    Psybull

    620
    Dec 31, 2015
    Eagle Scout, there are a few threads that talk all about the quality of the 2cds and Ugly Bettys. Having owned more than a few of both they have all been very good knives with small cosmetic flaws even on the Bettys. All heat treatment has been done by Peters and their work is top shelf, not once have I read about a steel quality or temper issue. Others have sent knives in for warranty work that can answer better than I can but I did send 7 knives in for sharpening and it took a long time to get them back. In Guy's defense 3 of them were convex Bark River ground blades so hand grinding was needed and they were slotted time inbetween model switch overs as was fully explained by Guy in a phone call or 3. I know at the time a year plus ago that if it was just 1 knife being sent in for sharpening turn around time was usually a week, 2 at the most. Mine were sent back in different groups, the convex ones arrived last like 7 months later but when I received the package he had included a gift 1st gen 5.1 as well- that says something to me about his character.
    The choice is yours but at the least give them a call and find out what they say.
     
    Eagle Scout likes this.
  2. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    The Quote below from CasinoStocks pretty much sums it up for me! The owners of Survive are both Moderators on this Forum, they could make a brief statement and then shut down this Post! Their failure to do this or respond to these accusations ( true or false) is IMO the biggest and most worrisome aspect!
    The ones who have stuck it through have already been beaten to a pulp and are loyal to a fault. Survive! is doing these people a disservice by staying mum irrespective of their own current personal plight. Their loyal customers like SN deserve much better, much much better.:thumbsup:
     
  3. gonebad395

    gonebad395 Ironworker!

    May 19, 2015
    To start I'd like to see all customers made right but with everything going on I just can't see it happening. And I get laws protecting investors but bankruptcy is bankruptcy( and to anyone jumping In I'm not saying they are bankrupt). But if it's not there it's not there


    This is a quote from you Further, I do not see anything wrong with people trying to protect and to preserve their own interests
    Ok now I belive he is misleading people and that's one of the areas we differ. I belive he's protecting his investment and has really no toe in the pool other then guy now paying him back.

    I also agree with another post you made and don't really know the verbiage but in a nut she'll it's shitty survive went silent. And are letting a few here that stood strong eating the shit pie the cooked.

    It's not hard to see this type of company fails and I understand orders are comming in and going out but as said before it dosent seem money is there to people back for very old orders. And to not see a post from survive speaks volumes how they think of everyone
     
  4. Silver Needle

    Silver Needle

    Jul 14, 2014
    I guess I was just looking for a little more context. I had no idea your interest or activity with this whole thing went so far beyond your computer keyboard.
     
  5. shinyedges

    shinyedges Unfaltering Love & Undeviating Will Platinum Member

    Jun 5, 2012
    When a customer is helping perpetuate a facade that everything is normal and allowing new people to be sucked into a ponzi like scheme in which they KNOW to be filled with lies and deceit, they are HELPING the schemers IMO. When everyone is sounding the "something is wrong" alarm and certain customers try and carry on like it isn't occurring, I wonder what exactly do they have invested into this? Are they a customer at all? Shill? IDK But it does make me curious.
     
  6. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    As you have said, there is a lot we agree on although we approach the subject from different perspectives and from different angles. Diversity is a good thing.

    However, I knew that I had forgotten to add something which this bolded last sentence of yours jugged my memory:

    Since you understand BK laws to some degree, know this that just like a debtor who decides to run up the debt on his/her credit cards by buying luxury items, will most likely get into trouble with the BK Trustee for committing BK fraud (I think there is a 180 day look back period or maybe a year in some case, but if tort is involved there is no statute of limitation) by the same token a business which takes in new mass orders whilst totally illiquid / insolvent at the brink is also risking running the gauntlet with a Trustee.

    Of course if Joe Schmo argues that hey, "I needed to put gas in my vehicle to go to work" or "I had to buy groceries on my CC to live on" a Trustee may be more sympathetic the same as hey, "I had to sell 10 knives to keep the lights on" type argument. However, taking in a massive number of orders as stated will be very problematic if what is being speculated on here is true.

    The same is also true with preferential treatment of a creditor. You can't pay your Mom / Brother / Cousin the debt you owe them in preference to the bank you happen to owe money too and by the same token, Guy can not just simply discharge Lance's loan before he decides to bail immediately thereafter. Again I agree with Lance that those who are over the 180 days with PP and over the TOS with their CC, best course of action would be to wait till someone from S! shows up to speak up on behalf of the Co (the sooner the better). Others have suggested different courses of action. Shrug!
     
    XtianAus likes this.
  7. Torch76

    Torch76

    211
    Nov 1, 2015
    I plan on calling and emailing them one more time tomorrow. You can read my post #135. I'm entering around 9 weeks without my refunds that was promised. More than 6 weeks since they've responded to my concerns. And 2 years without any knives. If I don't hear back by the end of the week, I'm reaching out to BBB, FTC and PayPal. I'll post an update at the end of the week. In 3-4 months, they'll either pull out of this dive or you'll see 10x as many stories like mine. Either way, and I said this once before, I wouldn't advise anyone to place a deposit or pay upfront on a new knife from them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  8. lancelot

    lancelot Gold Member Gold Member

    191
    Nov 12, 2005
    No. Not going to get into the details of my deal with Survive, but as over-collateralized perfected secured lender, my ability to get paid back is not an issue. As I prefaced my first post, I wanted to get details out there.
     
  9. argyle1812

    argyle1812

    511
    Mar 6, 2016
    Well I decided to try and get a refund even though im 3 months past the time for a paypal dispute. Wish me luck
     
  10. lancelot

    lancelot Gold Member Gold Member

    191
    Nov 12, 2005
    Correct. The loan amount was nothing too earth-shattering, but I'm not going to get into the details. The original note did not default and was extended prior to the original maturity. That's all I'll say on the matter.
     
  11. gonebad395

    gonebad395 Ironworker!

    May 19, 2015
    Ya know Lancelot don't doubt your a lawyer at all. But I and I say I feel you loaning money to survive is bs. And agian this is just how I'm seeing it. You have 23 posts in survive and Half are about this thread and just kinda popped back in to survive forums shortly after this family emergency aka a property fire. Which in a lot of people eyes here already seems shady the fire that is. And you can go back and read just in this thread people feel that way about it.

    Now around the time of the fire even a little before refunds started taking longer and longer and emails and phone calls started to be ignored after telling people refunds were comming. And the owners have seemed to abandon this forum with not one response.

    So agian I belive what you said that you belive survive is asset rich and cash poor. I also belive as said before they used today's money for yesterday's orders and need more money for tomorrow to keep going.
    Now the Sk line was announced in June this year if you do some research for awhile before this announcement there was some serious customer complaints. After this announcement things cooled down a bit here in this forum. And with new news there was so much back and forth talk and supporters wishing for this and that. That the earlier complaints were softened some.

    Now between the new directions and the family emergency customers that bit the hype started to notice nothing really changed. Same old same old missed dead lines unanswered phone calls and emails. So with that the masses started to ask questions and got no response due to the fact a FAMILY EMERGENCY happened.
    Now here comes you a super fan of 1 year matter of fact as of the date today less then a year because like I said you have 23 post in this subform and your first post was in September 2016.

    With all the people that have been waiting over a year or more for a knife from this company. This company must have really hooked you up in front of others to be such a super supporter in such a short time to loan guy the money to pay for some of the of refunds requested.

    I belive you know guy,I belive you like his knives and I belive guy asked you to help him calm the storm that has been happing since the Sk line was announced and the fire. So he can produce more cash to keep this ponzy scam going. So all of a sudden you pop in a messenger of guy trying to calm the waters. With the post about how you belive and you have the most skin in the game and you truly belive this is going to work. But yet the few die hard guys that have backed this company over and over and the newish loan guy are the ones sitting here trying to fix this. While the company sits silent letting you guys eat the Crap.

    Agian that's how I see what's happing and I don't think I too far off the truth.
     
    Lozza, palonej and Organic556 like this.
  12. ncrockclimb

    ncrockclimb

    Nov 20, 2014
    Too true. SN and a few others are truly good people. They deserve better...
     
    Brian77 and Silver Needle like this.
  13. SURVIVE! Ellie

    SURVIVE! Ellie

    Apr 21, 2014
    I admitted long ago, and several times since, that the Starter campaign and subsequent preorders were not the finest moment in SURVIVE! history. However, we did exactly what we said we were going to do at the time. We bought steel, equipment, invested in larger production run sizes, and contrary to what some people have claimed we even set funds aside to cover expenses during production. We also invested in the future of the business by making a down payment on the building, in hopes that we could soon move away from renting a finite space to owning somewhere with room to grow. This down payment was roughly equal to one third of an average production run. We still have over $60,000 of that steel, over $100,000 in equipment, several hundreds of knives worth of materials and several large deposits in to our vendors.

    In addition to the above and money spent on bolstering run sizes, operating expenses, and refunds, PayPal is currently holding on to $21,000 (and growing). They say this hold is meant to be in case of refund requests, but then they won’t let us use the funds for any of the refunds that I issue. So it just sits there growing with each new PayPal purchase, until they start trickling some of it back to us in a few months. Here is a quote from the email we received from them:

    “The decision regarding your reserve setting was based on our review of the level of risk associated with your account. We looked at several factors to determine the high level of risk associated with your account. These factors include:
    · Delivery timeframe - Extended length of your delivery timeframe.
    · High risk industry - You are selling merchandise or services in what we consider to be a high risk industry.
    · High risk or changed business model – There has been a change in your business model or your business model is considered high risk due to one, or a combination of the following (list is not all inclusive) – how and when items or services are delivered, items or services being sold, or inventory management.”

    We are curious to see what happens once the SK Series is fully operational, fixing the delivery timeframe and high risk/changed business model issues. Based on conversations with some other folks and the “high risk industry” statement, we are concerned PayPal may be sending the knife industry in the same direction it went with the gun industry. Time will tell.

    As far as what our plan is to fix the ordering issues, we covered that here: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-new-survive.1501589/

    Introducing the SK Series will help offset demand, so that we can focus exclusively on GSO Knives while folks can still get a really nice version of the same designs. The SK Series is still a product that needs to be made by people, it will be made more quickly but it still needs to be produced. We announced it ahead of production because we wanted to let folks know what our plan was to get out of the preorder rut. It also allowed us to get a better handle on how much interest there was so we would have a better idea of how many to order. If we don’t have enough they will sell out quickly and then we will all have to wait months for more. If we make too many we are going to have more money locked away in inventory.

    Things are starting to settle back in after the fire so we will be back in the workshop regularly again. We haven’t had a chance to update the delivery wording on the website yet but will be working on that over the next couple of weeks. I will make sure the refund requests are all issued by the end of next week. We will also hold off on adding any new weekly sales until we are caught up on those existing orders.

    Bladeforums is an area that is meant to be a more relaxed and fun community environment. Because of the regular accusations that have already been addressed and the random spamming, Guy won’t come here right now. He beats himself up enough, he doesn’t need you guys to do it for him. He did talk with Lance and when he mentioned making a post Guy hoped that would be enough to help appease some of the concerns.

    We do provide regular updates and have been up front when we have encountered issues that will lead to further delays, including when it is something of a personal nature. We answer the phone any time we are in the office and Jordyn replies to every person’s emails and voicemails. Since this is more of an informal environment, we encourage anyone with questions or concerns to send us an email to our official inbox: [email protected].
     
  14. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    :thumbsup:Thank you for the Update:thumbsup: Would like to see more interaction from you (Survive) in the future;)
     
  15. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    Thanks for the reply Ellie!
     
    MarriedTheMedic and Brian77 like this.
  16. Skystorm

    Skystorm A Cow Flayin' Sheath Making Angry Gnome

    Oct 17, 2011
    SURVIVE! Ellie said:
    I admitted long ago, and several times since, that the Starter campaign and subsequent preorders were not the finest moment in SURVIVE! history. However, we did exactly what we said we were going to do at the time. We bought steel, equipment, invested in larger production run sizes, and contrary to what some people have claimed we even set funds aside to cover expenses during production. We also invested in the future of the business by making a down payment on the building, in hopes that we could soon move away from renting a finite space to owning somewhere with room to grow. This down payment was roughly equal to one third of an average production run. We still have over $60,000 of that steel, over $100,000 in equipment, several hundreds of knives worth of materials and several large deposits in to our vendors.

    Read - Yes we funneled money from one business venture into a second. Survive LLC --> Seiferd Holdings LLC. That's going to bite you.

    In addition to the above and money spent on bolstering run sizes, operating expenses, and refunds, PayPal is currently holding on to $21,000 (and growing). They say this hold is meant to be in case of refund requests, but then they won’t let us use the funds for any of the refunds that I issue. So it just sits there growing with each new PayPal purchase, until they start trickling some of it back to us in a few months. Here is a quote from the email we received from them:

    “The decision regarding your reserve setting was based on our review of the level of risk associated with your account. We looked at several factors to determine the high level of risk associated with your account. These factors include:
    · Delivery timeframe - Extended length of your delivery timeframe.
    · High risk industry - You are selling merchandise or services in what we consider to be a high risk industry.
    · High risk or changed business model – There has been a change in your business model or your business model is considered high risk due to one, or a combination of the following (list is not all inclusive) – how and when items or services are delivered, items or services being sold, or inventory management.”

    We are curious to see what happens once the SK Series is fully operational, fixing the delivery timeframe and high risk/changed business model issues. Based on conversations with some other folks and the “high risk industry” statement, we are concerned PayPal may be sending the knife industry in the same direction it went with the gun industry. Time will tell.

    Read - Due to the large volume of complaints and chargebacks Paypal has limited our account due to selling products that have no specified delivery timeframe other than 'someday'. Of course that is not our fault so we are blaming Paypal for their risk mitigation policies (How dare they!) and the knife industry in general.
    Good luck getting that limitation removed. It took 127 faxed documents to Paypal's internal fraud department.


    As far as what our plan is to fix the ordering issues, we covered that here: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-new-survive.1501589/

    Introducing the SK Series will help offset demand, so that we can focus exclusively on GSO Knives while folks can still get a really nice version of the same designs. The SK Series is still a product that needs to be made by people, it will be made more quickly but it still needs to be produced. We announced it ahead of production because we wanted to let folks know what our plan was to get out of the preorder rut. It also allowed us to get a better handle on how much interest there was so we would have a better idea of how many to order. If we don’t have enough they will sell out quickly and then we will all have to wait months for more. If we make too many we are going to have more money locked away in inventory.

    More of the same ol same. Read our recycled monthly updates - Coming Soon!.

    Things are starting to settle back in after the fire so we will be back in the workshop regularly again. We haven’t had a chance to update the delivery wording on the website yet but will be working on that over the next couple of weeks. I will make sure the refund requests are all issued by the end of next week. We will also hold off on adding any new weekly sales until we are caught up on those existing orders.

    One would think you guys put out the fire and cleaned up the mess yourself with all the time off.


    Bladeforums is an area that is meant to be a more relaxed and fun community environment. Because of the regular accusations that have already been addressed and the random spamming, Guy won’t come here right now. He beats himself up enough, he doesn’t need you guys to do it for him. He did talk with Lance and when he mentioned making a post Guy hoped that would be enough to help appease some of the concerns.

    The GBU is littered with people who use the bury the head in the sand approach.

    We do provide regular updates and have been up front when we have encountered issues that will lead to further delays, including when it is something of a personal nature. We answer the phone any time we are in the office and Jordyn replies to every person’s emails and voicemails.

    This part is the most laughable. Yes we answer everyone's email and calls right up until they ask for a refund. Then the runaround begins and you force your previously loyal and now lost customer to file a chargeback and deal with the aggravation of getting back their money. Besides losing them you also lost anyone they come into contact with.

    Since this is more of an informal environment, we encourage anyone with questions or concerns to send us an email to our official inbox: [email protected].

    Read - Quit complaining on the forums where everyone can see. We want to keep it private to keep new orders flowing.


    Survive! is a textbook example of how to take a great idea and sink it due to Inexperience, incompetence, under funding, mismanagement of assets, absurdly poor customer service skills, lies, and excuses.
     
    bghorn, F22shift, T. Erdelyi and 14 others like this.
  17. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    Now tell us how you really feel! I used to really like your sheaths and have contemplated ordering a few for myself, but after seeing the negative attitude you have displayed here over and over and over again, I guess I'll take my business elsewhere, not that you really care or anything. There are those that are positive and want to see Survive pull out of this hole and there are those that want to see Survive run their business into the ground. I guess I'm the former and you're the latter. Not that it really matters to anyone to begin with....just my penny's worth.
     
    XtianAus and sryt95 like this.
  18. Skystorm

    Skystorm A Cow Flayin' Sheath Making Angry Gnome

    Oct 17, 2011
    Well if you prefer a business structure that continually lies, misleads, and jerks their customers around then you certainly won't be happy ordering from us. ;)

     
    SpySmasher, Lozza, JohnWE and 9 others like this.
  19. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    That hold on a substantial amount of S!'s funds by PayPal is certainly problematic and I sincerely hope that if / when the business stabilizes as an ongoing concern, Survive! manages to get PayPal to wholly unfreeze and unblock the account. TBT about PayPal, if one really reads their TOS line by line, word for word; I then doubt if anyone would date to keep more than a mere few hundred $ on hand at any given time. Survive! ought to eliminate the PP payment option immediately so that as the deposits grow even larger without Survive! being the immediate beneficiary, they lessen future risks of trying to snatch that money back from the depth of PayPal's heavy handed business practices.
     
    Brian77 and chiral.grolim like this.
  20. Ramojung

    Ramojung

    80
    Aug 24, 2016
    I do not believe they are even registered with the BBB.
     
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