Spyderco Massad Ayoob

OK I have a couple of other suggestions to throw in the pot regarding the hopeful reintroduction of the C-60. I think the Peel Ply CF would be perfect for a limited edition run. It would also be cool to start putting medallions of Spydie or some other factory logo on the side of the handle scale.

This knife should also have a unique, one of a kind Pocket Clip to distinguish it from the regular factory Spyders.

I know that there are many more suggestions that could be considered. Please folks let's don't let this one die :cool: This is one of the coolest possibilities of a Special Edition Spyder since I got news of the possible limited edition SUPERHAWK hawkbill. Wow! Wouldn't the 2 of them make an awesome gift set?
 
hmmm, i dont know lol.

just wasnt ever one of my favs.

chocolate and vanilla is suppose.
 
Personally, I wouldn't want to add too much cost to the knife because I'll be carrying and using mine. I'm not sure the market would support an extremely expensive model. I'd only change the handle material to G-10. I'd leave everything else the same (VG-10 steel, old style clip, etc.). If a redesign in G-10 would be cost prohibitive, I'd be fine with a different colored almite handle.

Regardless, if it's released, I'll be purchasing a couple (as long as it's not done with a FRN handle). I hope it becomes reality.
 
I want Spyderco to bring back the C-60 Massad Ayoob SD folder. I want it with a ZDP-189 or M-4 blade. I want it with either a G-10 or Peel Ply Carbon Fiber handle. All of the other particulars can be added or negotiated.

Nice call JD. I didn't even think of M4 until you mentioned it. G-10 and M4, perfect together. I think this is the ultimate combo. A great knife to introduce this new super steel with.

mike biz
 
Personally, I wouldn't want to add too much cost to the knife because I'll be carrying and using mine. I'm not sure the market would support an extremely expensive model. I'd only change the handle material to G-10. I'd leave everything else the same (VG-10 steel, old style clip, etc.). If a redesign in G-10 would be cost prohibitive, I'd be fine with a different colored almite handle.

Regardless, if it's released, I'll be purchasing a couple (as long as it's not done with a FRN handle). I hope it becomes reality.

I do agree with this. I wouldn't want this blade to get too expensive. That being said, I guess it would depend on if it were a limited edition run or not. If so, the things mentioned before, like peel ply carbon fiber scales, custom handle medallions, unique clip and some new super steel like M4 would definitely be worth it as the blade would only increase in value.

Lets keep this one going guys. It would be really cool to see this blade reincarnated.:thumbup:
 
I do agree with this. I wouldn't want this blade to get too expensive. That being said, I guess it would depend on if it were a limited edition run or not. If so, the things mentioned before, like peel ply carbon fiber scales, custom handle medallions, unique clip and some new super steel like M4 would definitely be worth it as the blade would only increase in value.

Yeah, I guess it comes down to does the majority of us want a user or a safe queen to sell at a later date for a profit. Nothing wrong with a little healthy debate amoung friends.

Regardless, if a Sprint Run is released, I'll be beating on mine. :D

That is, as long as it doesn't have a FRN handle (as I beat a dead horse). ;)
 
I was writing a reply about C-60 handle improvements when JD closed his "Ayoob Nook" thread. I've been following this thread with great interest, particularly Mas' detailed description of his design philosophy.

In some ways he went the same design route for the same reasons as Laci Szabo did with the UUK.

Personally, I'd love to see the C-60 re-released for two reasons. First, it's a unique, very well thought out design that merits it. Second, it would deflate the price gouging that happens at eBay. There's a lot of demand for the C-60. The edged defense people want a carry knife and the Spyderco collectors want a museum piece. Same thing happens these days with Gerber Mark IIs for the same reasons. The only people who really profit from the C-60 being out of prodcution are the resellers who get the "Antique Road Show Grin" watching both sides drive the price way out of proportion to the knife's intrinsic value. Spyderco isn't seeing a dollar from that demand, neither is Mas, and that's very unfortunate.

As for improving the design, well, at the risk of playing Monday morning quarterback on Massad Ayoob's play, how about radiused or bevelled, slightly thicker (by about .05" per side) scales of G-10 with a deep groove pattern across the scales? Traction grooves (or friction panels, or both) really help anchor a tool in the hand which is why they show up on many knives designed by well credentialed people with real world experience.

Lessee... the Sykes Fairbairn had a ribbed handle to lock it into the hand. When Rex Applegate redesigned the knife, he added an improved handle with deeper traction grooves. IIRC, he was one of the first to do so. Some Gerber Mark IIs had "cats tongue" grit handles (which felt a lot like MOD's "Wing Walk" inserts). Peter Bauchop's Witch and Warlock knives designed with the input of the SADF have grooves, as does his Alley Cats. Boker's AFD was redesigned in collaboration with Prof. Bill Newman of Latosa Escrima, European defensive tactics instructors Frank B. Metzger and Joachim Friedrich. The result is the EFD which has an improved deeply grooved "tread" pattern across the handles. Mission Knives who collaborated with the SEALS in designing the MPK-Ti included Applegate style traction grooves on the handles. Tactical trainer Duane Dieter (who developed the CQD system adopted by the SEALS) went a step further and included grooves and friction panels on his two MOD folding designs and his two MOD fixed blades.

...rounding the list out, Mas himself included a row of vertical traction grooves on his MOD fixed blade "Razorback" design as well. :D

The idea is even showing up now on firearm grip panels like the "Gunner" series invented by the late Rob Simonich and in use by the MCSOCOM DET1. They have a heavy traction pattern, too.

Seems like a lot of people with more real-world military/defense experience than I have seem to favor the idea. ;)

Just a thought.
 
As for improving the design, well, at the risk of playing Monday morning quarterback on Massad Ayoob's play, how about radiused or bevelled, slightly thicker (by about .05" per side) scales of G-10 with a deep groove pattern across the scales? Traction grooves (or friction panels, or both) really help anchor a tool in the hand which is why they show up on many knives designed by well credentialed people with real world experience.

Now that you say that, that would be a fair improvement.

If that doesn't happen, I might have to get two, one as a safe queen, and another to be modded;)
 
The Ayoob is one beautiful example of bladecraft for sure, i can understand it's cult following, i'd also be interested in a sprint run, perhaps a more affordable linered FRN model (like the D4)

a Wave opener (either integrated or removable) would be a great addition, as for bladesteel, how about H-1 with a SpyderEdge

Barracuda Salt;
FRN handle (unlinered)
H-1 steel
integrated Emerson Wave

While perhaps not as elegant as the original, I would buy this in a heartbeat.
 
I can tell you that at least three of us voiced our opinion about this knife at the SHOT show directly to the person in charge of such things. Unfortunatly he was non-committal.
 
Non-committal beats the heck out of outright rejection!
We all know that Sal always has a load of projects in the pipeline, so even if he likes the idea, it will take some time to implement. It really isn't possible to say why a particular model didn't sell well, so a re-introduction even as a sprint is always chancy. My personal suspicion is a combination of unconventional design and smooth metal scales conspired to do it in, but what do I know? Lots of other people seem to like smooth metal handles on their knives, so perhaps it was poor understanding of the negative blade angle alone that killed it.
I'd still like to have one in G-10 to carry. Maybe I'll shell out collector money for an original and change the scales myself.
 
imho the main reason it didnt sell well was the unconventional design, its the one knife i have showed my buds that they universally didnt like, not that its a bad design, just unconventional, ya know timberline makes one a lot like you guys are talking about (G10 handle, a little better grip).

i think it would do better with not so great an angle on the blade, G10, be carefull not to make it any thicker.
 
imho the main reason it didnt sell well was the unconventional design, its the one knife i have showed my buds that they universally didnt like, not that its a bad design, just unconventional, ya know timberline makes one a lot like you guys are talking about (G10 handle, a little better grip).

i think it would do better with not so great an angle on the blade, G10, be carefull not to make it any thicker.
Yet nowadays several companies make a similarily negatively angled knife. Kabar's TDI series immediately springs to mind. I had a list going somewhere of other knives...:rolleyes:
 
Yet nowadays several companies make a similarily negatively angled knife. Kabar's TDI series immediately springs to mind. I had a list going somewhere of other knives...:rolleyes:

Szabo UUK, fixed and folding.
Again, an interesting design, has an intense following in some circles yet failed to win mainstream popularity.
 
OK we are not even close to a consensus concerning a possible reintroduced C-60 Massad Ayoob Spyderco. The handle materials are up in the air and the choice of blade steels are all over the board.

But there is one big consensus :cool: :thumbup: We do want it back for sure ;)

We have one camp who wants a more ecomical version that would make it more affordable and we have the other camp ( which I'm in) that wants a high tech, upscale version of the original. Now Yablanowitz makes a great point that it is going to be chancy at best because the knife didn't soar up the sales charts the first go around>> Well I have an answer to that one: It is a Spyder that had to be used and checked out first hand before it was ever going to be accepted or appreciated at all. That base has been covered and Spyderco fans now love the design even though it was slow to catch on the first time.

Now that it is known and has been used I don't think the second go around will be a problem with sales at all. Also I think we can arrive at a happy medium with some of these materials. ZDP-189 would make this a very pricey venture. However any blade steel that is top notch will catapult the price. But that's one thing I won't compromise on is the blade steel. If my knife doesn't have premium blade steel I'm not satisified. So maybe a G-10 handle would be a happy medium. Or maybe even a "Knurled Aircraft Aluminum" handle might be the ticket. And just maybe staying with VG-10 blade steel will be the ticket.

So let's just cover one base at a time and see where we end up. I think it will be easier for everyone to have 2 choices on handle material and blade steel. My 2 choices of handle material are Peel Ply Carbon Fiber & G-10. My 2 choices of blade steel are M-4 & BG-42. OK let's hear your choices?
 
OK we are not even close to a consensus concerning a possible reintroduced C-60 Massad Ayoob Spyderco. The handle materials are up in the air and the choice of blade steels are all over the board.

But there is one big consensus :cool: :thumbup: We do want it back for sure ;)

We have one camp who wants a more ecomical version that would make it more affordable and we have the other camp ( which I'm in) that wants a high tech, upscale version of the original. Now Yablanowitz makes a great point that it is going to be chancy at best because the knife didn't soar up the sales charts the first go around>> Well I have an answer to that one: It is a Spyder that had to be used and checked out first hand before it was ever going to be accepted or appreciated at all. That base has been covered and Spyderco fans now love the design even though it was slow to catch on the first time.

Now that it is known and has been used I don't think the second go around will be a problem with sales at all. Also I think we can arrive at a happy medium with some of these materials. ZDP-189 would make this a very pricey venture. However any blade steel that is top notch will catapult the price. But that's one thing I won't compromise on is the blade steel. If my knife doesn't have premium blade steel I'm not satisified. So maybe a G-10 handle would be a happy medium. Or maybe even a "Knurled Aircraft Aluminum" handle might be the ticket. And just maybe staying with VG-10 blade steel will be the ticket.

So let's just cover one base at a time and see where we end up. I think it will be easier for everyone to have 2 choices on handle material and blade steel. My 2 choices of handle material are Peel Ply Carbon Fiber & G-10. My 2 choices of blade steel are M-4 & BG-42. OK let's hear your choices?

Well, since it's a Japanese produced knife, I'll stick with domestic Japanese steels for logistical purposes. V-10 would be fine with me. You could also go with ZDP-189 if you want to increase the labor and material costs on the knife. My only real handle choice would be G-10 but I'd make do with a rough almite finished aluminum handle like on later model Ayoob runs.

I hope they make a run of these. How ever they turn out. I'll be good for at least one. :D

If I really like the materials and fit -n- finish, I'll buy more. ;)
 
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