Spyderco "mislead" about price increases!!!

[Lodd]

I can understand where your heart is. I commend you for trying to take a higher road. However....

The OP doesn't want to discuss, hash out, or even have a question answered as his original statement was countered with facts....multiple times. He makes inflammatory statements about Sal because he knows it will ruffle fearhers here. He wants to stir the pot. He wants an argument, but he wishes to debate using incorrect information with a dash of conspiracy theory mixed in for flavor..

Please do a quick forum search about what Sal, Eric, and all of Spyderco have done for the knife industry and how they conduct themselves and their business. Completely class act, and Sal is easily one of the most well respected pillars in the knife community, not just here on BFC but in the entire industry.

So far, the opening volley reads like,
"Ah Ha! Sal is a swindler! I have proof because I have extrapolated an undeniable answer because I have cherrypicked numbers to fit my narrative rather than be empirically valid!"
"No.. here's why (ABC)."
"I have been hacked! Cheated! An inside man is holding me down, the TRUTH down!"
"Quit saying dumb and inflammatory things...again."
"I'M BRINGING TRUTH TO THE MASSES!....SEE?..."
(A handful of people grumble about the price of Spyderco, MAP, and offer a wish list of what they wish was more afdordable).

This character is not worth exercising nobility over. This is a bit of ridiculous theater, and im sure it is being allowed to stretch out to give the OP more rope with which to hang himself so that he can go out falling on his own delusional sword.

Just for the record, my remark wasn't meant in defense of the OP. I do not condone making such accusations lightly and without proof. However, there were a few others in the thread that were trying to have a constructive discussion and some others basically told them to shut up because of their lack of expertise. That is what prompted my remark.

That said, there are definitely those who seem to shut down all capacity for critical thinking as soon as Spyderco gets involved. Spyderco does good work, but they also do stuff that should invite criticism. I have 2 Spyderco knives in possession. I love my Slysz spydiechef. But the Native 5 in fluted titanium is very underwhelming to me, and I won't make a secret out of it.

Another point of criticism is their practice of doing sprint runs and flash batches. To me, that's just ugly. And the most recent example is the Spyderco Bombshell: That knife costs over € 400 here. I don't care about costs and overhead and China vs USA all that stuff. That is just way too expensive for what it is. Especially considering the other options that are out there. And to top it all off, it's a flash batch meaning that they'll make 1200 pieces of it and then destroy the blueprints and stuff. That's just very very ugly to me.

I'll just call things the way I see them. Spyderco does a lot of good things, and I respect them for that and I will compliment them for that. However, they certainly aren't holier than mother Theresa and I will not keep my mouth shut when I see something I don't like. However, I don't feel the need to make accusations that I can't back up or throwing mud everywhere.

(Inb4 I'm not allowed to post because only owning 2 Spyderco knives is too little to understand anything about Spyderco )

 

[Houlahound]

However, there were a few others in the thread that were trying to have a constructive discussion and some others basically told them to shut up because of their lack of expertise.

I have learned a lot on the BF's and one thing I have learned rightly or wrongly is knife brands are not just brands of knives, they are religious cults and woe betide anyone who craps on someone else's cult.

 

[craytab]

Just for the record, my remark wasn't meant in defense of the OP. I do not condone making such accusations lightly and without proof. However, there were a few others in the thread that were trying to have a constructive discussion and some others basically told them to shut up because of their lack of expertise. That is what prompted my remark.

That said, there are definitely those who seem to shut down all capacity for critical thinking as soon as Spyderco gets involved. Spyderco does good work, but they also do stuff that should invite criticism. I have 2 Spyderco knives in possession. I love my Slysz spydiechef. But the Native 5 in fluted titanium is very underwhelming to me, and I won't make a secret out of it.

Another point of criticism is their practice of doing sprint runs and flash batches. To me, that's just ugly. And the most recent example is the Spyderco Bombshell: That knife costs over € 400 here. I don't care about costs and overhead and China vs USA all that stuff. That is just way too expensive for what it is. Especially considering the other options that are out there. And to top it all off, it's a flash batch meaning that they'll make 1200 pieces of it and then destroy the blueprints and stuff. That's just very very ugly to me.

I'll just call things the way I see them. Spyderco does a lot of good things, and I respect them for that and I will compliment them for that. However, they certainly aren't holier than mother Theresa and I will not keep my mouth shut when I see something I don't like. However, I don't feel the need to make accusations that I can't back up or throwing mud everywhere.

(Inb4 I'm not allowed to post because only owning 2 Spyderco knives is too little to understand anything about Spyderco )

Maybe there is a language barrier here but I don't associate doing sprints and flash batches with the word "ugly". Rather, I believe ugly is an apt descriptor for what ganzo does and the behavior displayed here by those who support them.

 

[Lodd]

Maybe there is. I know the thing about sprint-runs and flashbatches is personal to some degree. Some see them as a pleasant surprise. To me it feels like limiting of the availability of certain configurations. I don't like the artificially created sense of urgency. If I see a knife I like, I want to be able to save up for it, ponder it, dream about it for a while, etc. I do not like the feeling I have to act now or miss out forever.

I will definitely not defend Ganzo. Although there is a grey area between counter-feits/stolen designs/copycat work and homages / inspired by, they nonetheless seem to have accomplished being very clearly on the wrong side of that. However, that does not have any bearing on my opinion of Spyderco. I see those as seperate discussions.

 

[craytab]

Maybe there is. I know the thing about sprint-runs and flashbatches is personal to some degree. Some see them as a pleasant surprise. To me it feels like limiting of the availability of certain configurations. I don't like the artificially created sense of urgency. If I see a knife I like, I want to be able to save up for it, ponder it, dream about it for a while, etc. I do not like the feeling I have to act now or miss out forever.

I will definitely not defend Ganzo. Although there is a grey area between counter-feits/stolen designs/copycat work and homages / inspired by, they nonetheless seem to have accomplished being very clearly on the wrong side of that. However, that does not have any bearing on my opinion of Spyderco. I see those as seperate discussions.

The sprints and flashes are what they are. Generally, they are not a surprise, you have a chance to save up and prepare for the sale. Further, they are often done in limited runs because the maker does not feel justified in going with full production. They really are more of a collector, niche, or connoisseur type of thing. It is a bit more of hassle for the average user to acquire, but totally doable if you are on the ball.

Prices in Europe are a whole other issue. Frankly, this whole gripe you have is not really in line with discussing the cost of a widely available Chinese produced regular production knife, especially considering the false and inflammatory narrative woven by the OP who has a proven axe to grind. If anything, go reread what the moderators have said on this subject. Their assessments are spot on.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

L Lodd I can totally understand where you are coming from, to a degree. Not everyone has the means to throw a sizeable chunk of disposable income at a fancy one-off knife as soon as it drops. I appreciate your point of view and respect your long response.

However, that is business. Its not disingenuous nor dastardly nor even unethical. When you have something that you make or sell and it is precious, it is worth what the market will bear. Some knives and goods are even sold via lottery. Surely that's more fair, but it doesn't really make someone feel that way when their number isn't called. Spirit runs are just a way to juice the system. They are no different than "Call now, supplies ARE limited!" Or "Yeah, that's a nice car for sure. As a matter of fact, a guy across town said he's coming by to take a look within the hour. It won't last." Or even Disney putting 80 year old movies "back into the Disney Vault" in order to keep their purchase profitable for when the next round of kids are born and become old enough for their parents to buy them movies. At least spirit runs add something of collection value to Spyderco fans.

No one here, to my knowledge, has every made it a prerequisite to own a lot of something to have a opinion on it. That's not what this place is about. Hell, I think I have 4 Spyderco knives. My collection is probably close to 1000 pieces. The designs don't always do it for me, and I usually have a very specific task in mind when I buy one.

At the end of the day, while I dont buy a lot of Sal's knives, I know what he has done and how he and his company have presented themselves here and across the internet. He has earned the right to be defended from an obvious shill. Thats not being cultish as some may toss around. Thats keeping the facts straight and making sure the true history is preserved and brought to light lest folks who haven't been around here for 2 decades get this idea that the OP actually knows what he's talking about. He does not.

His cherrypicking of data is not going to hurt Sal or Spyderco. Its probably not going to sell more of the crappy knives mentioned in his screen name. What he is doing is sowing discord among us. He's a Russian Facebook bot prodding and poking and stirring. He doesn't have a real agenda beyond conflict.

 

[Lodd]

I think we agree on a lot of things! I agree Spyderco is under no obligation to do things the way I prefer to see them. Unless, of course, they really, really badly want to sell me one (1) extra knife every so often. Perhaps it's mostly a personal preference, after all. I certainly wouldn't call it dastardly or unethical (I reserve those terms for companies that do stuff like underpay employees and such). However, I do think it's valuable to hear different viewpoints, for us as well as for Spyderco.

I think the assessment of the OP's agenda is correct and I agree that Sal/Spyderco deserves standing up for. I was simply hoping we would evolve past the constraints of the Opening Post and still have some good discussion in this thread. I have certainly progressed past the need for OP's ramblings.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I have learned a lot on the BF's and one thing I have learned rightly or wrongly is knife brands are not just brands of knives, they are religious cults and woe betide anyone who craps on someone else's cult.

I find it almost amazing that people carry this kind of attitude into a knife forum. Did you think that on an enthusiast specific forum you wouldn't encounter people that are passionate about knives? That's literally the single aspect that generally unites everyone here. Dismissively accusing people of cultish behavior because they're passionate about their hobby and the brands they enjoy on a forum made specifically to embrace those things just makes you look like your feelings got hurt because you got an intense response for some criticism that you posted, to be honest. Welcome to the internet, people are going to vociferously disagree with you.

 

[Lodd]

I'm going to vociferously disagree with you too, but respectfully.

This is a forum, not a church. A forum is meant to be a place where people can respectfully express different viewpoint for the enlightenment of all. And maybe banter, too. It's not a place of worship or a place where you can attack people with a different opinion. Passion is one thing, but some people seem to interpret even the most polite criticism as an attack on themselves and do not conduct themselves respectfully.

 

[Quiet]

Jealousy, sour grapes, and complaining about already cheap goods isn't a good look. Then throw in the insult to spyderco and the support of a company that actively steals from them? Some folks have no decorum. All this before we even deal with the very flawed arguments a couple folks are making. Coincidence they are two of the biggest clone supporters on the forum? I say no.

This.

What amuses me is how much kerfluffle is being made over the price of two cheap knives. Perhaps if a similar level of effort were made in some folks' professional endeavors, they'd be able to step up to better knives, or at least be in a financial standing that allows them to purchase a $42 knife (LOL) without it being a big deal that it used to be cheaper.

Also? Sal Glesser is a saint, and the idea that the OP who supports some garbage BS peddlers like Crapzo would think his company was "lying" about prices is...well, it's poor logic at best for multiple reasons.

Politely, there's an awful lot of "I never learned microeconomics (or macroeconomics for that matter) in school" on display here.

 

[Quiet]

I simply question Tenacious went from sub 30 to 50-60, almost a 100% increase while Rat 1 actually decreased in price during the same time.

Ontario is also an American company, likely with all the overhead expenses you guys mentioned in previous threads. And Rat1 is made in the more expensive Taiwan.

Logic dictates something does not add up here with regard to Tenacious' price increase and by the Rat1 comparison I'm pretty sure it ain't due to increase to material cost. If that was the case Ontario will loose money on every Rat1 it sells.

One person mentioned inflation and used car cost as example. But he failed to see the Rat1 comparison. If a Chevy Truck and Ford Truck cost thr same 10 years ago, but the Chevy truck today is double in price while the Ford truck cost less than it did 10 years ago while both companies made the trucks with the same materials. Then the difference is not due to inflation smart guy?!

Not a single person who posted so far have countered my original argument and have only bashed me for my screen name, bashed China, supported spyderco because they make great stuff and Sal is good to his customers etc...

This is simply a comparison of two similar American knife companies making two similar knives and likely the truth in their price discrepancy developed over the years have to do with acceptable profit margin each company is willing to accept. And not the stated PR verbatim of material cost increase.

...as I was saying about that inadvertent revealing of a lack of understanding of Macro/Microeconomics.

 

[JParanee]

This.

What amuses me is how much kerfluffle is being made over the price of two cheap knives. Perhaps if a similar level of effort were made in some folks' professional endeavors, they'd be able to step up to better knives, or at least be in a financial standing that allows them to purchase a $42 knife (LOL) without it being a big deal that it used to be cheaper.

Also? Sal Glesser is a saint, and the idea that the OP who supports some garbage BS peddlers like Crapzo would think his company was "lying" about prices is...well, it's poor logic at best for multiple reasons.

Politely, there's an awful lot of "I never learned microeconomics (or macroeconomics for that matter) in school" on display here.

Amen

the op obviously does not own a business and we can all see why

 

[Quiet]

Oh no, I live on the ocean and can easily drop them in 1000 fathoms any day they must be made unusable by anyone.

This post is really silly, why is it even going on. Spyderco puts out a knife with a price on it; if you like it buy it if you don't nothing more needs to be said.

What you are saying is the end result of certain folks' mistaken belief that their personal opinions on what a company should charge for its goods and services are somehow objective valuations, and should be taken seriously.

The issue with this limited intellect mindset and attempting to correlate a good's price 100% with the materials that make up that good, is that it completely dismisses the value of the skilled labor and the costs of, well, about a million other things that had zero to do with what G10, or steel of ANY kind costs.

 

[sharp_edge]

G Ganzofan - I think it's wrong to say Spyderco/Sal lies about their prices. Spyderco/Sal/Eric have produced a quality product that many knife users and collectors enjoy, myself included. I actually do not think Sal (or anyone from Spyderco) needs to explain their pricing or how much profit they make.

The price of a product is not only about the materials used, the worker salaries, R&D cost, advertisement cost, country of origin, and facility and tool cost etc. that you are talking about. You left out one of the most important factors (if not the most important factor): the reputation of the brand. Spyderco has earned as a great brand. While not a poor brand, Ontario is no match to Spyderco in the folding knife world, and hence your price comparison of Spyderco Tenacious and RAT is moot.

Spyderco may or may not be making more profits than Sal said. But I don't care and I don't need to know the answer. I only ask myself one question when deciding whether I'll buy a Spyderco knife or not: do I think it is worth the asked price TO ME?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I'm going to vociferously disagree with you too, but respectfully.

This is a forum, not a church. A forum is meant to be a place where people can respectfully express different viewpoint for the enlightenment of all. And maybe banter, too. It's not a place of worship or a place where you can attack people with a different opinion. Passion is one thing, but some people seem to interpret even the most polite criticism as an attack on themselves and do not conduct themselves respectfully.

Again, sorry, but hard disagree. The mods are here to manage personal attacks, and I agree those should be off limits, but people claim that others interpret criticism as an attack because said others vehemently disagree. If you criticize among enthusiasts and don't know what you're talking about you are going to be called on the carpet rather harshly and you should be. If you want enlightenment I would actually recommend a church rather than a forum, but a forum should be a place to find accurate information and unsubstantiated claims should be rejected in the strongest possible terms. I care much less about who's being respectful than about who's telling the truth.

 

[JParanee]

What you are saying is the end result of certain folks' mistaken belief that their personal opinions on what a company should charge for its goods and services are somehow objective valuations, and should be taken seriously.

The issue with this limited intellect mindset and attempting to correlate a good's price 100% with the materials that make up that good, is that it completely dismisses the value of the skilled labor and the costs of, well, about a million other things that had zero to do with what G10, or steel of ANY kind costs.

Exactly

 

[Lee D]

If there’s any question of how much respect/admiration there is for Mr Glesser, go look at the “which maker you’d like to have a beer with” thread.
There’s a reason for that, and it’s not because of his business savvy, Id say it’s because he’s proven to be a stand up guy that listens to his customers.

 

[danbot]

I think this entire thread can be summed up in two words.
Fake news!
(There are two other words that could sum it up too...)
IBTL!

 

[cbrstar]

The slight price difference is such a first world problem.

For some reason people just don't understand reputation in this day of age. Spyderco for over 40 years have made awesome knives with amazing designs. When you purchase a Spyderco you know exactly what you are buying. Where as your "insert quirky named Chinese brand of the week". Knife does not have a reputation and has to sell it cheaper to entice you to buy.

Guys like the OP never mention how these brands jack up thier prices 100/200/300% overnight after they get a good review.

 

[skyhorse]

Amen

the op obviously does not own a business and we can all see why​

He obviously doesn’t know anything about Sal Glesser as well . ​