Spyderco price increases and higher MAP pricing

GB940Rookie

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I don't fault Spyderco for raising prices. I've bought one knife from them at MAP. Doubt that I'll buy anymore but who knows. I like the knives I have and the new models are just getting too pricey for me.
 

miltmaldo

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Maybe they are going to you the increase to give out free pocket clips and free sharpening service and will replace blade .
 

kreole

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I don't really see this as a big deal because Spyderco stopped making bang-for-the-buck knives with the original move to MAP. Spydercos became premium knives at a premium price before this latest bump.

That said, I've only bought three since the change to MAP (Para3 (bid low on that auction site), Resilience, Ambitious) but purchased maybe 40ish in a couple year period before that, so it has definitely changed my buying habits. If I can get M390 in an American-made knife from another brand for $80, I'm going to take that over an Endura that costs about the same...or even a regular P2 at what will now be like $50-60 more than that.

There are definitely some more expensive models I'd like, but I'll sit back til they get discontinued or I catch them used at a reasonable price. With a little patience, you can still get them at a decent price those ways.
 
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ELI5 for a relative newbie: did MAP help protect our beloved and dedicated knife dealers from the big river site?

I still think Spyderco offers extraordinary value relative to other manufacturers with similar policies. I might grumble internally about a 5% bump on an exclusive, but I'm still pulling the trigger on a have to have knife.
 

RamZar

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It's not a 5% street price increase but at least 8.34% on just the MAP changing to 35% off MSRP instead of 40% off MSRP. On top of that the MSRP on some models (don't know which) are increasing.
 
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Here's my take:
I've had a few conversations with a brick and mortar knife retailer about Spyderco knives, specifically, why they carry pretty much every single Benchmade model, but only a handful of Spyderco models. I was told basically that their margins on Spydercos are too low. They don't make enough on the sale of a Spyderco, so they push Benchmades and carry very few Spydercos.
My observation has been that the Spydercos they DO stock, they sell very, very quickly... Presumably taking sales away from their higher-margin Benchmades.

MAP has nothing to do with the wholesale/dealer cost, and everything to do with the health and distribution network of the brand. It's about Spyderco fighting for retail shelf space in order to expose new customers to the brand and increase in-person sales. MAP hurts high volume and low margin online retailers who can compete on price, but only to the extent they lose sales at a higher relative rate than the price increase. MAP helps brick and mortar retailers, but even more so, it helps Spyderco push more volume out to retailers, and in turn helps Spyderco's market share, since the retailers can now make more money on a Spyderco.

On one hand I disagree very firmly with the concept of MAP since I think it is non-competitive. But you can't argue with the results MAP can bring. Kinda backwards how raising prices helps you compete, eh?

Does anyone remember how this started??? As I recall, a large online knife retailer, famous for offering free shipping, stopped selling Spyderco knives altogether because the margins were too low. Very soon thereafter, Spyderco implemented MAP.

Will I buy fewer Spyderco knives starting 1/1/2018? Sure. But it doesn't matter. They don't want me buying 50 more knives online, they want 50 brand new retail customers. They really want more B&M retailers, more inventory on display. No problem, I'll still buy and sell couple Spydies a year, and maybe with the leftover cash I can move up to CRK territory.
 
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I think Spyderco could add value by switching to Elmax as their standard steel. The CQI in the Golden made knives adds some value too. The $108 para 2 from several years ago isn't exactly the same knife.
 
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ELI5 for a relative newbie: did MAP help protect our beloved and dedicated knife dealers from the big river site?

Well, that is an interesting question. I think the original MAP (40) was primarily intended to help all retailers compete with the big river site (or so we assumed). And I think it did that. But where we sit today, the big river site and all the other retailers are already (presumably) on level pricing ground. So in my opinion the new MAP (35) is less to do with protecting small retailers against larger ones, and more to do with giving all retailers more incentive to sell Spyderco relative to other brands.
 
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So pretty much this is to make the dealers happy. They get to charge more for the same product as last year and we get to eat it. I guess they control what Spyderco does as a company. Way to throw the loyal customers under the bus. Soon enough with a 5% MAP rip every year or two they'll be Benchmade at 15% or less MAP. In other words a they'll be a company I no longer do business with. I dumped my insurance company for doing the same thing last year. Never an accident or ticket but for some reason they thought I'd like to pay more? I ended up with a new company paying even less with better coverage.

Competition is too stiff from companies like Cold Steel, arguably the best deal in folders right now. I guess they don't need to steal the crown, Spyderco is apparently just giving it away.
 
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I think Spyderco could add value by switching to Elmax as their standard steel. The CQI in the Golden made knives adds some value too. The $108 para 2 from several years ago isn't exactly the same knife.
How is that? It's S30V and all the same materials.
 
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How is that? It's S30V and all the same materials.

If you've handled a crazy number of para 2 you will notice the product is much more consistent these days. Better detent and the factory sharpening doesn't dip in at the base of the blade.
 
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The competition at the 100-200 range is getting bigger every year. With spyderco and BM in particular raising prices so much, the new comer china brands.keep looking more appealing.
 

P2P

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No brand out there keeps me guessing and interested in what’s around the corner like Spyderco. If they wanna charge more, that’s a risk on their part that could go either way, I’m sure they have done their SWOT analysis. They aren’t knew to this industry. They keep making cool stuff, and I’ll keep buying the ones I like. There’s spydercos I have now that I easily would have spent 20 more dollars on.
 

DJC72

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Just a question because you all seem well versed on MAP. Why would knife companies want to come to the aid of brick and mortar stores when many are closing their doors? Seems online sales are the future.
 
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So pretty much this is to make the dealers happy. They get to charge more for the same product as last year and we get to eat it. I guess they control what Spyderco does as a company. Way to throw the loyal customers under the bus. Soon enough with a 5% MAP rip every year or two they'll be Benchmade at 15% or less MAP. In other words a they'll be a company I no longer do business with. I dumped my insurance company for doing the same thing last year. Never an accident or ticket but for some reason they thought I'd like to pay more? I ended up with a new company paying even less with better coverage.

Competition is too stiff from companies like Cold Steel, arguably the best deal in folders right now. I guess they don't need to steal the crown, Spyderco is apparently just giving it away.
Its market forces, and the internet is a great big wildcard that no one quite yet understands. I suspect we will see the big river site start to look very different within two years, as their retail sector is going to have to stop being a loss leader. Lots of changes are happening to them, and prices will go up, which helps the smaller retailers, and re-balance the world. You can dig for every penny, and sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Around here a lot of folks did a similar switch to get better insurance, turns out they were no longer covered for certain floods, of which we get here nearly biannually, even in drought. So money saved? Nope. Each of us has to look at our own value equations. But I don't feel I've been thrown under the bus, I've been told what things cost. I'd rather support some good folks doing good work, and making knives that fit what I want, the fact that its currently spyderco winning those contests for me is why I'm here and and not another Mfg sub.
 
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I liked benchmade. Then they did the same game. I haven’t bought a benchmade in years. Sad to see Spyderco doing this. Oh well. Plenty of makers out there.
 
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I can live with the fresh price increase again and I saw the price increases from Spyderco over inflation rates during the last years also. And it will not hurt me if a decision board is doing it again and again, they will have their good reasons.

Because I have other challenges and knives are only a hobby and not really essential for my way of life. I'm fortune enough to have a lot more knives in my drawers than I really need and this is pure luxury. What I want to say is my good times with Spydies are gone, model variety and price policy is no longer as attractive for me as it was in the past. I will still pick the one or the other Spydie but I will think twice if it is a model in good old spirit or not. Same did I also during the last couple of years (in 2017 I bought only one Spydie and this was second hand).

One more point as European: you US-guys get your Spydies still at a bargain compared to our dealer prices here :(
 

BMCGear

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Here's my take:
I've had a few conversations with a brick and mortar knife retailer about Spyderco knives, specifically, why they carry pretty much every single Benchmade model, but only a handful of Spyderco models. I was told basically that their margins on Spydercos are too low. They don't make enough on the sale of a Spyderco, so they push Benchmades and carry very few Spydercos.
My observation has been that the Spydercos they DO stock, they sell very, very quickly... Presumably taking sales away from their higher-margin Benchmades.

MAP has nothing to do with the wholesale/dealer cost, and everything to do with the health and distribution network of the brand. It's about Spyderco fighting for retail shelf space in order to expose new customers to the brand and increase in-person sales. MAP hurts high volume and low margin online retailers who can compete on price, but only to the extent they lose sales at a higher relative rate than the price increase. MAP helps brick and mortar retailers, but even more so, it helps Spyderco push more volume out to retailers, and in turn helps Spyderco's market share, since the retailers can now make more money on a Spyderco.

On one hand I disagree very firmly with the concept of MAP since I think it is non-competitive. But you can't argue with the results MAP can bring. Kinda backwards how raising prices helps you compete, eh?

Does anyone remember how this started??? As I recall, a large online knife retailer, famous for offering free shipping, stopped selling Spyderco knives altogether because the margins were too low. Very soon thereafter, Spyderco implemented MAP.

Will I buy fewer Spyderco knives starting 1/1/2018? Sure. But it doesn't matter. They don't want me buying 50 more knives online, they want 50 brand new retail customers. They really want more B&M retailers, more inventory on display. No problem, I'll still buy and sell couple Spydies a year, and maybe with the leftover cash I can move up to CRK territory.

Yes, it's clear that there is a higher profit margin on Benchmade knives as there isn't a huge value there until you add their after sale service which is about the best in the business. When I was in graduate school my instructor told us that when she started a private practice she looked at what others were charging (75 - 100) in the area and she then charged 150. Her explanation: people wanted the best and as a result she built a thriving practice. I see what Benchmade has done as similar. We build the best high performing products with premium materials and the best after sale service - our brand is worth it. Now, for many it is but if you look at the Benchmade forum here for many it isn't and it's backfiring. Their QC (while I haven't had any problems) could be improved.

I remember when knivesshipfree did this. And then did an interview about it in Knifenews (I thought this part was in poor taste). Soon after MAP was introduced. MAP in the knife industry is absolute bullsh*t though because it's price fixing. After MAP went into affect I became interested in a Native 5 G10. One of the knife dealers that I bought Spyderco from (not amazon or ebay - an actual dealer) had the knife priced around $115 (his prices were always the best on Spyderco) and after MAP it went up to $136. I emailed him as a long time customer and asked was that the best price he could do. He replied because of MAP it is the price listed. In no other hobby or industry that I'm in is MAP enforced in this way.
 
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Oh no. Price on an additional knife that we don't need went up 5%. What's that boil down to, less than a tip at a restaurant, right?
In my opinion, if this additional 5% breaks the bank you should really be sorting some other things out in life.
As I said before, 5% in a vacuum isn't much. It's the competition that creates the issue. Do I spend $135 on a Para 2 with G10 scales and S30V, or do I spend my money on a Steel Will Cutjack that nets me M390 for $10 less?

The $10 extra isn't the issue, the aggressive pricing of competitors is.
 
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