Stabilizing Wood: Physics, Chemistry, Materials, Techniques, and Performance: "Just the facts Man"

Will cactus juice fill gaps in rotten burls which have been a bit porous after drying, or do I need another resin in order to stabilize that kind of wood?
 
I think that is something that is more likely to be found by experience. I seem to recall that others have reported that large internal gaps are not filled completely with resin - I am sure someone will chime in in this...
 
Eriksen said:
Will cactus juice fill gaps in rotten burls which have been a bit porous after drying, or do I need another resin in order to stabilize that kind of wood?
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No.

Stabilizing will NOT fill gaps. If you check my website, under the wood information and articles section I have a whole write up if what stabilizing does and does not do.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
No.

Stabilizing will NOT fill gaps. If you check my website, under the wood information and articles section I have a whole write up if what stabilizing does and does not do.
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Ok!
I understand, but do I then need to fill the small porous holes with epoxy after the cactus juice process, or should I rather try to use thin epoxy as a stabilizing agent instead of the cactus juice?

And what about the vacuum compressor. Can I buy a small ordinary compressor and rebuild it to a vacuum pump by mounting a nipple to the air intake?
 
Greenberg Woods said:
Stabilizing will NOT fill gaps. If you check my website....,
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Thank you Ben ... I thought I remembered people saying that, but wanted the more practical experienced to chime in.

Part of me is still wondering why larger voids are not filled with resin .... not doubting, just not understanding the reasons....
 
Eriksen said:
do I then need to fill the small porous holes with epoxy after the cactus juice process
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I think most people have said that voids like this are best filled with CA adhesive (the "thick" kind, not the "thin" .... though I would actually be interested in someone (Stacy ... do you hear me????? :) ) indicating whether epoxy would/would not work for this?
 
Here is how to get show winning handles from wood with cracks,voids, holes:
Stabilize the wood properly (K&G).
Sand the handle to around 90% finished.
Flood it with medium CA and give it a shot of accelerator.
Add more CA to any larger voids or holes.
Sand down to 95% and touch up the voids with more CA. The voids will have filled with the grinding dust and the CA will turn that into wood filler.
Sand to 99% and give one more coat of thin CA.
Finish sanding and buff with a clean buff lightly charged with matchless white or pink.
The voids will now look like wood features.

I do this on Buckeye burl that is full of holes and on redwood burl that is filled with eye-holes and mini-cracks.
 
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How much does the thickness of the wood play in the full penetration process? IE: A piece 3/4" x1" vs a piece 1/4" x 1". Would the hobby process stand a better chance of 100% absorption on the thinner piece?
 
golfer1 said:
How much does the thickness of the wood play in the full penetration process? IE: A piece 3/4" x1" vs a piece 1/4" x 1". Would the hobby process stand a better chance of 100% absorption on the thinner piece?
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Not really. Full penetration is limited by your ability to push resin into the smallest pores ... which is defined by the pressure you apply
 
Does the wood need to be cured right after the vacuum process, or will it be possible to put the wood scales on an oven shelf and let it drip of some of the juice into a drip tray under in order to save some of the juice and make the clean up process of the scales easier after curing?
 
Cushing H. said:
Thanks - that is the kind of thought/discussion I was hoping people would pick up. You ask an interesting question - and though I dont have the direct answers re. pressure - I think you are getting there. One example I can give is SCUBA tanks. the standard aluminum SCUBA tank is designed to hold 3000 psi. look them up on the web - they are small enough to carry on your back, and even then they are HEAVY - with very thick walls and only a single threaded opening at the top. Certainly then, there are compressors capable of hitting those pressures. But A larger container with an opening large enough to put wood blocks into and out of, and which could hold those pressures would, in your words, be "some kind of crazy pressure chamber". Certainly doable -- but most definitely way outside of what might even be considered at home. I truly had not even been thinking along those lines - but I think you are on to a reasonable train of thought...

I would take K&G at their word ... which means for the really dense woods with the majority of pores below 0.1 micron, home treatment does not stand a chance of penetrating most of the pores.

The kind of question I started out asking is .... what if 50% of the pores were 1 micron or larger. Would home treatment be "good enough"???
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I have been reading all your info on stabilizing and I am enjoying all your input. I am putting together a stabilizing set up right now and I will have chambers certified for 5000psi soon hopefully I will be able to do some tests and I will post my results with you.
 
5000 psi? That is one heck of a setup.

I think what might add value to this thread is if you could post what equipment you are using - and how much it cost to get there
 
I trashed a solid stainless steel pot by pulling vacuum with an old fridge pump. I love the stabilizing process but my results were nowhere near the professional stuff. The stabilizing service in Germany is too expensive to pay out. I am still trying to reach some people in Czech Republic that apparently do it.
 
Was 5000psi a type? Maybe 500psi?

5000psi takes a monster compressor and special piping. That is higher than a scuba tank takes.
I worked with high pressure reactors in my chemical research days and thought 1000psi was a lot.
A 5000psi pressure tank that you can remove and reseal the top would be a beast.
When something breaks at 5000psi bad things happen to anyone nearby.
 
You are probably right it was a typo Stacy. I did the mental comparison to scuba tanks myself ... that is kind of why I asked about prices. It has been many years, but aluminum scuba tanks are, what 3000 psi? Thy are NOT light
 
Is there air in the system when you pressurize it? Reading about the high pressure systems mentioned early in this thread, I always assumed that you evacuate a chamber, then let the resin flow in and pressurize that, sort of like a hydraulic cylinder. Seems a lot safer and hydraulic systems operate at pretty high pressures. You can get a battery powered grease gun that delivers around 10,000 psi. Anyway, that was just my assumption, don't know how these systems are implemented in real life.
 
Yeah it is bad news if something goes wrong. I have worked in the oil field all my life and have been around high pressure the entire time.
We would test our B.O.P to 21000 psi. And it wasn't a typo lol.

I am having them built by a company that specialize in pressure tanks and they will be certified by ASME

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Was 5000psi a type? Maybe 500psi?

5000psi takes a monster compressor and special piping. That is higher than a scuba tank takes.
I worked with high pressure reactors in my chemical research days and thought 1000psi was a lot.
A 5000psi pressure tank that you can remove and reseal the top would be a beast.
When something breaks at 5000psi bad things happen to anyone nearby.
Click to expand...
 
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