"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

Agree and disagree. First, tactical is a word with a clear definition. You can't make up your own meaning and retain credibility. Websters defines it as:
Main Entry: tac·ti·cal
Pronunciation: \ˈtak-ti-kəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1570
1 : of or relating to combat tactics: as a (1) : of or occurring at the battlefront <a tactical defense> <a tactical first strike> (2) : using or being weapons or forces employed at the battlefront <tactical missiles> b of an air force : of, relating to, or designed for air attack in close support of friendly ground forces 2 a : of or relating to tactics: as (1) : of or relating to small-scale actions serving a larger purpose (2) : made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view b : adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose

So....pretty clearly a military, combat thing.

I agree that a knife isn't the best weapon. But it can and has been be successfully used as a weapon. There are features that make some better weapons than others. I suppose you could argue a folder with those features is more tactical than those without.

To me, a true tactical blade is a small, black fixed blade. The odds of using a knife as a weapon on the battlefield are remote. As Erwin Rommell figured out the hard way in WWI, the soldier who wins a knife fight is usually the one with a round in his magazine. But they're used all the time to cut things. Fixed blades make no noise when opening. Black is better than plain steel, which can shine in sunlight. Light is key. Ask anyone who humped a full ruck and an M60 the value of light. If I were still in the military, a crk professional soldier would be my choice. Light, fixed, rust proof, black, and big enough to do anything I'd need it for.


IMHO, tactical folder is an oxymoron. A CRK Sebenza does not fit the bill at all given how loud the lock engagement is. Metal on metal can be heard a long way in the woods and it's very distinctive. It's the last sound you want to make. I suppose a silent opening black folder could be considered tactical. That said, not one of the soldiers in either of the light infantry platoons I commanded carried fancy or expensive tactical folders, including my ex- Special Forces Platoon Seargent or ex SF squad leader. None were even all that into knives.

All that said, I appreciate a small, light folder with good edge retention, high level of corrosion resistance, a solid lock, and the ability to open easily with one hand. I wouldn't be caught dead in the wilderness without one. In fact, I'm rarely ever without one. Also, although never used in self defense, I came very close to killing a highly aggressive Rotweiller with my Sebenza once. You can bet having it brought a measure of security then. Oddly, the loud click, the thing that IMHO makes it not tactical, is what sprung the douchbag owner into action beyond calling his snarling, untrained dog's name. Ultimately that click may well have saved someone or somethings life. To be honest, I'm not sure how that fight would have gone. That fucker was huge. At best i probably would have had a broken arm and a hell of a lawsuit.
 
Every word has common-use connotations that may be only peripherally related to its dictionary definition. You can't ignore common use and retain credibility.

A "tactical folder" has long been defined as a folding knife intended for utility that could also be used for self-defense.
 
The word "tactical" is a selling point for knives, firearms and flashlights. Call it a tactical object and add 10% to the final cost.
 
A couple of thoughts:

(1) Tactical is a Term of Art, Not a Dictionary Term - I find it cute that some people have elected to quote the dictionary to understand the term "tactical." Dictionary terms are not especially useful when interpreting a term of art that has been given a unique, almost intangible meaning by members of a specific community. Tactical is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible.

(2) Congrats for Identifying the Obvious - I congratulate a handful of posters on this forum, who for whatever reason, are obsessed with the notion of "self defense" and are able to point to a handful of examples (which fall within that generous 10% estimation I offered in the OP) of people using a knife in a "self defense" situation. These examples do not refute the fact that using a knife in self defense is **incredibly** rare, strange, legally risky, and undesirable option. I encourage you to consult a reliable practical text about civilian knife fighting if you doubt this assertion. I recommend Don Pentecost's "Put em' down, take em' out: Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom Prison," which is largely regarded as one of the most fundamental and important texts on knife fighting and basic techniques in non-military settings, for a brief primer for why knives are terrible self-defense weapons. It's interesting to note that most knife fighting techniques do not even utilize or value features on a "tactical" knife (jimping, for instance, has no use or function in ice pick or hammer grips).

(3) Tactical Designs are Disproportionately Represented - Rare examples of self-defense applications do not change the fact that the near mythical uses of knives in self defense has create an enormous, disproportionate "tactical" marketing concept that preys on the allure of militarism. It does not change the fact that this marketing concept is creating a huge trend in the market pushing more and more knife models towards fatter blade stocks, rougher handles, increased weight, and militaristic aesthetics for the purposes of being the biggest and baddest tactical blade on the market. Considering the rarity of tactical applications, consumers should stock as much weight in "tactical" features/aesthetics as a knife's ability to perform equally rare, bizarre functions (such as how well a knife can generate friction like sand paper). Yet, unfortunately, "tactical" applications enjoy a disproportionate, unfortunate popularity that discourages design innovations. It has created a vast, artificial design rift between "gentleman's" and "traditional" knifes, and outlived any use it may have had in the early 1990s in pushing functional features (such as thumb studs, and faster deployment mechanisms).
 
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Your arrogantly proclaimed expressions of almost total ignorance of the self-defense application of knives, coupled with your deliberate mischaracterization of those who purchase a type of knife you do not happen to prefer, do not constitute a compelling argument.
 
Sharp Phil said:
Your arrogantly proclaimed expressions of almost total ignorance of the self-defense application of knives, coupled with your deliberate mischaracterization of those who purchase a type of knife you do not happen to prefer, do not constitute a compelling argument.
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Total ignorance? A harsh characterization. It is understandable that the concept of knives being rare, undesirable self defense weapons may appear untrue or unappealing to you, considering your economic interests in knife fighting as a form of self defense (nice website).

The fact of the matter is that using a knife in tactical applications is a novel, incredibly rare concept that should not be driving sales, setting market trends, or impacting the design of knives. Again, any "tactical" application a knife may have should be about as important as how a knife functions as an abrasive material. The use is just as common, yet we do not see sandpaper grit being grafted onto the spine of every blade these days.
 
What are your credentials, Oakengroves? What makes you an expert on the self defense applications of knives?
 
Oakengroves said:
Total ignorance? A harsh characterization. It is understandable that the concept of knives being rare, undesirable self defense weapons may appear untrue or unappealing to you, considering your economic interests in knife fighting as a form of self defense (nice website).

The fact of the matter is that using a knife in tactical applications is a novel, incredibly rare concept that should not be driving sales, setting market trends, or impacting the design of knives. Again, any "tactical" application a knife may have should be about as important as how a knife functions as an abrasive material. The use is just as common, yet we do not see sandpaper grit being grafted onto the spine of every blade these days.
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You read Pentecost's book. That doesn't constitute evidence of the broad assertions you are making about self-defense applications. (Just the fact that you keep calling it "knife fighting" indicates a limited level of knowledge).
 
Oakengroves said:
Total ignorance? A harsh characterization. It is understandable that the concept of knives being rare, undesirable self defense weapons may appear untrue or unappealing to you, considering your economic interests in knife fighting as a form of self defense (nice website).

The fact of the matter is that using a knife in tactical applications is a novel, incredibly rare concept that should not be driving sales, setting market trends, or impacting the design of knives. Again, any "tactical" application a knife may have should be about as important as how a knife functions as an abrasive material. The use is just as common, yet we do not see sandpaper grit being grafted onto the spine of every blade these days.
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Interesting post.

I think it's the idea of the SD use of knives and the selling of the general idea that somehow it's needed and fueling the fantasy that some may or may not have for getting into that type of situation.....

The truth really is the date is 2013, not 1,000 BC and sometimes things do tend to happen even today..... BUT percentage wise it's not really likely and they really don't happen as often as those who are making money off the general concept would have people believe.

Those people are selling the fantasy of being a tough guy and some make more money at it than others...

It's marketing in the end to make a buck...
 
I'd like to address the "undesirable design feature" that is subjective. The design features of commonly marketed tactical knives were began for a very practical reason. These design features, like one hand opening,black finish and pocket clips were in response to a need that was to be filled. My son-in-law is in a combat unit in the army, there are requirements his unit has on no reflective surfaces, thus the black finish. One hand opening(ao flipper on his zt0300) because of occupied hands, usually with a carbine. There were a lot of situations he told me about down range where those design features are necessary. While they may not be to you need to realize not everyone has the same requriements of a knife. Some need a spanner, glass breaker, breaching tool, serrations or all of the above.
 
Ankerson said:
Interesting post.

I think it's the idea of the SD use of knives and the selling of the general idea that somehow it's needed and fueling the fantasy that some may or may not have for getting into that type of situation.....

The truth really is the date is 2013, not 1,000 BC and sometimes things do tend to happen even today..... BUT percentage wise it's not really likely and they really don't happen as often as those who are making money off the general concept would have people believe.

Those people are selling the fantasy of being a tough guy and some make more money at it than others...

It's marketing in the end to make a buck...
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A lot of people carry handguns, the vast majority of whom will never find themselves in a gunfight, either. Yet they carry Les Baer, or Ed Brown, or Wilson 1911s, or other pistols specifically designed for gunfighting. Do they live in a fantasy world, too?
 
That's just it. The OP is making ridiculous generalizations based on his limited preferences and limited experience.
 
jbombelli said:
A lot of people carry handguns, the vast majority of whom will never find themselves in a gunfight, either. Yet they carry Les Baer, or Ed Brown, or Wilson 1911s, or other pistols specifically designed for gunfighting. Do they live in a fantasy world, too?
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I am sure some are while others are required to carry a handgun due to their job and or current situation.

Situations vary as do thoughts and motives.
 
It's interesting that you make no allowance for those citizens who simply believe in taking responsibility for self-defense. Of course self-defense is rare. Lots of things are rare, yet we carry insurance for them and have plans to deal with them. Self-defense is no different, but it sure makes some people feel a lot better about themselves, apparently, to sneer at it while wrongly proclaiming their opposite number to be a bunch of paranoid nutjobs who want to be video game characters.
 
Ankerson said:
I am sure some are while others are required to carry a handgun due to their job and or current situation.

Situations vary as do thoughts and motives.
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Is it the case that everyone who carries a gun but never finds himself in a gunfight was living in a fantasy world? Is preparation for something that MIGHT or MIGHT NOT happen the same as fantasy if it doesn't actually happen?
 
jbombelli said:
A lot of people carry handguns, the vast majority of whom will never find themselves in a gunfight, either. Yet they carry Les Baer, or Ed Brown, or Wilson 1911s, or other pistols specifically designed for gunfighting. Do they live in a fantasy world, too?
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some do, but many today acknowledge that 80% of gunshot victims survive, good or bad guy, they know that hollow points are not guranteed to expand, that bullets cannot knock down a person, that pistol rounds take a long time to stop someone unless it is a hit to the central nervous system, that police officers only have about a 30% hit ratio while also usually firing those shots at under 3 yards in actual street shootings, that someone can close from 20 feet or more in under a second, that a semi auto can be pushed out of battery or fail to cycle without a solid grip, that a revolver cylinder can be grabbed and the firearm rendered unable to fire,and that the probability of stopping one attacker is no better than a coin flip until you fire about a dozen rounds.

But this thread is definitely in Prac Tac or W&C territory.
 
Just saying, I had a very dear friend of mine successfully defend his brother from 3 attackers after he got jumped. With his tactical folder. He stabbed two of them, and cut the other one. The attackers fled and were later arrested. The police questioned my friend, and commended him on his actions. He suffered no legal repercussions whatsoever.

If anything, I feel the opposite way. Knives are a great way to carry a defensive weapon in states that do not offer the right to carry a firearm. And I feel that there are many people that dismiss the use of a knife in a defensive/offensive role because they have heard it from a friend/forum member/guru/Sensai, etc. Just because people may hold a perceived position of authority does not mean they know what they are talking about.

These are just my thoughts, and to be honest I'm pressed for time so I did not read this entire thread.
 
hardheart said:
some do, but many today acknowledge that 80% of gunshot victims survive, good or bad guy, they know that hollow points are not guranteed to expand, that bullets cannot knock down a person, that pistol rounds take a long time to stop someone unless it is a hit to the central nervous system, that police officers only have about a 30% hit ratio while also usually firing those shots at under 3 yards in actual street shootings, that someone can close from 20 feet or more in under a second, that a semi auto can be pushed out of battery or fail to cycle without a solid grip, that a revolver cylinder can be grabbed and the firearm rendered unable to fire, that hollow points are not guaranteed to expand, that bullet wounds aren't a sure fight stopper unless they hit something important (heart/CNS) and that the probability of stopping one attacker is no better than a coin flip until you fire about a dozen rounds.

But this thread is definitely in Prac Tac or W&C territory.
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All of that is beside that point. Is preparation for something that may end up never happening the same as living in a fantasy world?
 
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