"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

To dismiss self-defense with knives as not possible or ineffective is a declaration of ignorance. Yes, firearms are superior. "Tactical" knives still have their place, regardless of the sneering of people who have no training in their application. Especially with firearms laws tightening everywhere, a knife may be the best option for daily self-defense equipment. Knives marketed as "tactical" often have features that make them well suited to this task -- sometimes despite the manufacturer's efforts to the contrary.
 
OMG, it's Phil! Long time no see.

I'd say that the women who have avoided being raped due to their use of a knife might think there had been some use defensively.

Tactical knife, gentleman's knife, fishing knife, whittling knife...they're all knives, so I like em.:thumbup:
(except for ugly knives...life's too short for ugly knives)
 
I drive a "Sports" car to work and back. She will do 160mph but that would get me in a lot of trouble. I am not a sports car driver. What does that make me? I also know people who drive "off road" type vehicles the same way.
Selling points, buzz words etc. all part of of the marketing.
I do believe however, that a knife is an effective tool for self defense.
Cheers
 
"Tactical" features:
Dark blade = less noticable
pocket-clip = simple carry, readily accessible, easily concealed
Thumb-stud/hole/disk = single-hand operation folder
locking-blade = increased strength & reliability in a folder against myriad force vectors
thick stock = increased lateral strength (prying)
Serrations = increased cutting performance on fibrous and flexible/resilient material
multiple grind angles = varied levels of durability and cutting performance on a single blade
contoured handle = ease of indexing
abrasive handle = increased retention
steel liners = increased strength
stainless steel = reduced maintenance
sorry, the swiss army knife, the Camillus Demo knife, the TL-29, the V-42, the Fairbairn-Sykes, the Smatchet (SMATCHET!!!), the 18" Ontario machete, the Khukri, most of the knives issued in history have missed many or all of the features you list, either fixed or folding. Locks, stainless steel, pocket clips, thumb holes/disks, serrations, most of what you listed wasn't even available commercially for military adoption or even feasible in their prior iterations until we hit the 80s. That isn't a lot of history.

The connection is very tenuous because as I said, there isn't a specific military mission for 'tactical' folders. The only thing worse is lumping all guns together to try and draw a false comparison between a 240G and a 5 shot .38 special used a a concealed carry back-up. Self-defense is specifically not a military mission, it is an individual responsibility.

Cutting stuff is also not a military mission, and people in and out of combat have been killed or seriously wounded with kitchen knives. Heck, Condor has a couple of knives named for a soldier who didn't even use any of their brand or type. They're selling fixed blades because he used a Buck 110 clone to defend himself. The 110 misses most of what you list as tactical features. (Or it may have been a Fox 577, not sure from the pic)
 
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It is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible.

Here in Arizona, prior to the passage of our constitutional carry law back in 2010, our state-issued CCW specifically included knives with blades over 4" in addition to firearms. Why would they have been included had they not been seen as viable and legal tools for SD? I realize the legal aspects vary widely around the country, but the potential effectiveness and usefulness of a knife does not. I really don't understand this knives-are-useless-for-self-defense mentality that seems so in vogue these days. Are they the best tools for SD? No. However, discounting them entirely seems bizarre to me.

edit: Sorry, missed the last page somehow.

To dismiss self-defense with knives as not possible or ineffective is a declaration of ignorance. Yes, firearms are superior. "Tactical" knives still have their place, regardless of the sneering of people who have no training in their application. Especially with firearms laws tightening everywhere, a knife may be the best option for daily self-defense equipment. Knives marketed as "tactical" often have features that make them well suited to this task -- sometimes despite the manufacturer's efforts to the contrary.

I agree.
 
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So the argument is that because knives developed before the development of the modern "tactical" knife were not modern tactical knives, such modern knives couldn't be more useful for their intended purposes?
 
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That being said, I own a few "tactical" style knives that I bought while trying to figure out what kind of knife I want to carry, but after a few years of purchasing I settled on carrying and using my slipjoints the most...

It's good that you found slipjoints able to suit your needs, but passing judgement on what everyone else should or shouldn't like based on your own seemingly narrow view of utility is arrogant, to say the least. Many so-called "tactical" features have now become almost ubiquitous amongst folding knives (thumb studs, some jimping for better grip, better handle design/materials, varied blade designs, etc). Those things may have originally seemed tactical but they have also been found to have many practical uses on a day to day basis, depending on the needs of the user. Your post also implies there is no real use for a knife in today's urban environments, but you really can't speak for anyone but yourself on that point. I have lived in the country and in the city and have always found many uses for a knife as a daily tool, so to state that people don't need them is rather presumptuous. I regularly find many uses for a folding blade which I don't need both hands to open and which I don't need to dig around in a pocket for, and the availability of those options has been driven by the new and innovative ideas which were brought by blade makers who pushed the boundaries. This isn't to say there are not companies that gear their marketing towards mall ninjas and take things to a sometimes laughable level, as we all know, but using that one extreme merely builds a strawman argument to support the rest of your personal opinions on blade design.

I would also like to challenge your assumption that everyone somehow has access to carry an admittedly superior defensive weapon, a gun; this just shows a clear lack of understanding as to how many other countries laws work on your part. Here in Canada, we are unable to carry handguns and carrying batons and anything else that could be easily classified as a weapon, rather than a tool, is a problem waiting to happen and is best avoided when possible. That leaves the venerable knife which is likely to be used for nothing more than cutting sandwiches, breaking down boxes, or opening those infernal clamshell packages for the vast majority of folks. In a pinch though, one could be used defensively (however unlikely that scenario may be). After all, humans have been using edged weapons since they were chipped out of stone, and not all of them have been sword-sized. In fact, the people of most agrarian and earlier cultures carried knives that were helpful tools in their day to day lives but could, and were, used as a last resort defensive weapon when need be.
 
Also, tactical does not mean modern features like thumb studs g-10 lock etc. a tactical knife is a knife you use to screw people up if you don't have a gun or can't get to your gun. If you live in another country with a gay government than I can see how you will not like tactical knives. And if you don't think you have the right to defend yourself and you live in the u.s. you shouldn't be here. Remember kid when seconds count police are only minutes away!!!

Tactical originally meant for use in a combat zone. If you look at the big fixed blades used in this tactical sense, like pig stickers and Ka-Bars, they were copied from farm and camp knives. These were tools the farm and country people that made up so much of our early armed forces were familiar with.

Cutting up people? Sick. Don't let the bad guys get that close to you!

And stop trying to make a political issue out of this.
 
I find it annoying that if a knife does not have jimping, choils, or thumb ramps, it gets a negative review. I don't understand why these are required features to some folks, but luckily, there are plenty of other options.

As for self defense, a knife increases your potential to hurt another human being, and therefore is a valid choice when it comes to the use of force. If you live in constant fear of bodily harm, and feel the need for a knife at all times, I truly feel for you and wish you a better existence.

I don't mind that people buy tactical knives because it feeds their fantasy of being like their favorite video game character, action hero, or soldier. Other people fantasize about being 100% prepared, living off the land, being the ultimate handyman, or a classy gentleman of times gone by. Hell, I already own more knives than I can use; I have no illusions that I buy knives for reasons others than practicality. I think we have a strong reaction to narrow-mindedness. It's human nature to harbor and object to it.
 
It's a mistake to project your misconceptions about self-defense onto those who buy a type of knives you do not happen to prefer.
 
You seem to be under the impression that a man buys a "tactical" knife because he lives in fantasy world, while simultaneously professing an ignorance of the utility of "jimping, choils, and thumb ramps." Perhaps I misread your post?
 
You seem to be under the impression that a man buys a "tactical" knife because he lives in fantasy world, while simultaneously professing an ignorance of the utility of "jimping, choils, and thumb ramps." Perhaps I misread your post?

Ahh, yes. The all or nothing argument. Just because I said something, it means I said it in absolutes.

How many people who buy tactical knives actually use them in combat? I'd also say, if you study knife fighting, and your style focuses on the use of knives with said features, by all means. I think most of us buy knives because they are cool, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Also, I never said jimping, choils, etc were useless. What I said was, proponents of these features think knives that lack them are useless.

How quickly we turn something into an attack on our beliefs.
 
And I see another, passive thoughtless "lulz dude, the market is teh market" reply that overlooks the importance of consumer demand, market trends, and how those factors ultimately effect your decisions as a consumer. It appears you're missing one of the key points of the thread: the myth of tactical use is infecting modern knife design and leading to unfortunate, functionless design trends. This is evident in a wide number of design features on multiple popular knife models: CRK Sebenza 25, BM 810, the entire cold steel product line, and most ZT knives to name only a few.
I don't really see it as an infection. I don't buy Kershaw. I don't buy CRK, Benchmade, or Cold Steel. I buy Spyderco, which IMO focuses on ergonomics and cutting ability first and foremost. I buy Mora, Svord, Victorinox, Condor. We can talk Beckers and ESEE, which are somewhat tactical, but they are multi purpose for outdoors and military both. Just bought a Mora Bushcraft Black. They're getting kinda tactical. But I bought it because it has a thicker blade, I like DLC coating, and I like the color black. I don't think it's really an infection unless your favored brands are being completely revamped. That is all I meant. I apologize though. Gotta stop posting at all hours of the night and being rude.
 
... most of the knives issued in history have missed many or all of the features you list, either fixed or folding. Locks, stainless steel, pocket clips, thumb holes/disks, serrations, most of what you listed wasn't even available commercially for military adoption or even feasible in their prior iterations until we hit the 80s. That isn't a lot of history...

My apologies for not being clear, none of those features mentioned were what I as referring to in regards to military knives from the last couple of centuries. I thought referencing the Kabar would help, but it was insufficient. My point was how so very many versions of the Kabar (or whatever came before it) persisted - Buck, Case, Cattaraugus, others all had versions in WW2, all very similar i.e. specific required features for the tool to be accepted by the military. And that was here. Each country would have its own requirements & style. Backing up, swords and machetes from individual areas also tended to share very similar features. Despite the variations of Khukuris, they are quite recognizable by specific features. The Ontario machete looks like most other machetes. Comparing a machete to a trench-knife fits your gun comparison (or lack), but comparing machetes to machetes or "combat" knives to eachother does not. My point is that these knives had much more in common than just being knives. They are often hard to distinguish between.


As to the list of more recent "tactical" features, of course they are more recent. I mentioned that today we have more innovation and designs from various makers, some with important "tactical" application that also serve everyday uses. To criticize a knife for having such features and therefore being "tactical" seems ridiculous to me, which was the point of the list. Make sense?
 
It's good that you found slipjoints able to suit your needs, but passing judgement on what everyone else should or shouldn't like based on your own seemingly narrow view of utility is arrogant, to say the least. Many so-called "tactical" features have now become almost ubiquitous amongst folding knives (thumb studs, some jimping for better grip, better handle design/materials, varied blade designs, etc). Those things may have originally seemed tactical but they have also been found to have many practical uses on a day to day basis, depending on the needs of the user. Your post also implies there is no real use for a knife in today's urban environments, but you really can't speak for anyone but yourself on that point. I have lived in the country and in the city and have always found many uses for a knife as a daily tool, so to state that people don't need them is rather presumptuous. I regularly find many uses for a folding blade which I don't need both hands to open and which I don't need to dig around in a pocket for, and the availability of those options has been driven by the new and innovative ideas which were brought by blade makers who pushed the boundaries. This isn't to say there are not companies that gear their marketing towards mall ninjas and take things to a sometimes laughable level, as we all know, but using that one extreme merely builds a strawman argument to support the rest of your personal opinions on blade design.

If you read my post carefully you'll see I wasn't passing judgment on what people should or shouldn't like. My post was referring to "tactical" as marketing hype designed to sell a product. I didn't talk about "tactical" features or specific knives at all. My post was entirely about the idea of "tactical", and I gave a possible explanation as to why "tactical" knives are so popular now, which is, to put it succinctly, that for many people the idea of a knife has drifted from being a useful everyday object to an object upon which to project fantasies. Marketing knives as "tactical" helps make them "cool" so people who have no use for a knife as a useful everyday object or tool will buy one anyway as a toy. Look at pretty much anything made by Dark Ops, for example. There's a reason slipjoints aren't marketed as zombie killing "tactical" death blades...

Once again, this has nothing to do with people who buy a knife to use it as a useful everyday object. One-handed opening, a locking blade, a pocket clip, etc, are useful features. I do enjoy my Spyderco Sage 2 and I carry it several times a week. Is it "tactical" because I can open it with one hand? My specific uses do not require a "tactical" zombie-slaying knife. People who buy a "tactical" knife for use as a tool to fulfill a specific everyday use and who actually understand and use knives aren't buying into the hype I was discussing. I would imagine all but a handful of people on a knife enthusiast forum don't fall for the marketing hype I was discussing. I was talking about the general population and trying to give an explanation as to why so many companies make knives and market them as being "tactical" without ever defining what that is. In general the term is nebulous precisely because it lets people fill in the blank with their own imagining.

Once again, this isn't passing judgment on people who buy knives for self defense, combat, military uses, or any other informed purchase. I'm talking about people who buy the Mtech knife because "it looks SO COOL".
 
It's marketing basically to help sell knives.

I agree with this. Before the 1980's and "Rambo" etc., knives weren't made to look "tactical" - they were sharp and functional cutting tools made with good steel, and nothing more.

Hollywood has done more damage to knife users than anything else, period. The Sheeple (especially politicians) now view knives as a weapon because of this idiocy and the fact that other Sheeple (i.e. criminals) have used knives for intimidation, murder, etc., instead of keeping in mind that a knife is the most useful survival tool ever invented.

I approve of capitalism, but let's stop vilifying knives and start representing them as the extremely useful TOOLS they are instead of weapons.

Sheeple nowadays are terrified of anything that looks scary or sharp, and apparently they think that "Gun Control" will make criminals run to the nearest Police Amnesty Post and turn in their illegal weapons. They need to be educated. Seriously.
 
I agree with this. Before the 1980's and "Rambo" etc., knives weren't made to look "tactical" -

Right, before the 1980's daggers did not exist, nor did push daggers, karambits, or WW1 trench knives...oh wait...hmmm...
And switchblades, they didn't exist before 1980, right?
 
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