"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

FortyTwoBlades said:
I think what determines a "tactical knife" is along the same lines of the old phrase "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." :p
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It's the same stupid way they define what an "assault wepaon" is by law.

Like "assualt weapon", "tactical knife" seems to be completely incorrectly used term.

#1- Real assualt weapons are already banned and what people call assualt weapons are black scary looking hunting rifles with picattiny rails on thme.

#2-Knives commonly called "tactical" are simply over built knives that are typically black, have grippy scales, open with one hand and are marketed by some companies as effective combat weapons. Other than the styling and marketing, tacticals are really no different than any other folder in basic function.

It's the same arguement basically as the assault weapon thing.

You just watch, pretty soon some moran in the government will want to ban "tactical" knives.
 
I agree with most of the OP about some dumb features on modern knives. though I don't necessarily agree with his definition of what constitutes a tactical knife. I think that term means different things to different people.

My spyderco military is one of the best user knives on the planet, everything about it is designed to cut and handle well. But it has military in the name, you can get it in all black variants, and has jimping at the choil and on the spine. Could it be labeled as tactical? Absolutely. Does that make it bad? Not in my opinion.

Then there are knives that are much more marketed as tactical, like Emersons. Admittedly this makes me automatically not like them as much, as they are fine knives on their own, however this marketing alone would not stop me from owning them. What stops me owning an Emerson is lesser materials for more price, as well as bad ergonomics as a user. One again, this is all personal taste, and I think they are good knives. They just aren't for me.

The subtle differences in how one talks up their knife makes a huge impact on me. Everything I have heard Sal say about the military design has been purely from an ease of carry and actual use standpoint. Whereas I have seen a quote from Emerson relating to how many "operators" were carrying his blades when executing missions. Once again, not a bad thing, and I have the utmost respect for Emerson, I just get really sick of the online fellatio people give to "operators" when trying to talk up uber tactical equipment.

I mean, what brand of batteries did these operators have in their optics? Is energizer more tactical than duracell if they were the ones chosen?

mercop said:
Things cannot be tactical, only their use can be.
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best sentence in this thread.
 
jonathan13 said:
Wah wah wah. Knife - a sharpened piece of metal with a Handle used for cutting things. Are you seriously telling me that I can't use a knife to protect myself from getting mugged, robbed, or rapped. Knives are tools but I can't see how they are not weapons. Grow up
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I don't care for rapping, but I'm certainly not going to pull my knife on a rapper!;)
 
Oakengroves said:
What is "tactical?" It is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being.
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Wow, that is what tactical means? Seems like you have fallen for all the marketing you claim to dislike.....

Like with almost every product in the vast world marketplace, I would suggest judging each on their own merit and features. Don't want jimping, G-10 to rip up your pants, or a thick blade then don't buy a knife with those features.

All this stuff is personal likes and dislikes. Sorry if you think all this "tactical" hype is impacting how companies make stuff, but if it didn't sell they wouldn't make it. Trends come and go, that is how a free market works. Perhaps people will suddenly realize that all the features you claim are tactical are dumb and manufacturers will stop making them.

Again, don't buy what you don't want. Seams simple enough...
 
goodeyesniper said:
My spyderco military is one of the best user knives on the planet, everything about it is designed to cut and handle well. But it has military in the name, you can get it in all black variants, and has jimping at the choil and on the spine. Could it be labeled as tactical? Absolutely. Does that make it bad? Not in my opinion.

The subtle differences in how one talks up their knife makes a huge impact on me. Everything I have heard Sal say about the military design has been purely from an ease of carry and actual use standpoint.
Whereas I have seen a quote from Emerson relating to how many "operators" were carrying his blades when executing missions.
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Good point on the Military. I love them, and don't see the Satin version as tactical myself, but I guess it could be viewed as such. Very lightweight, no jimping on handle, alot of distal taper leaving a fine tip, and I don't mind the lite jimping on the blade.

I know many see any knife with a clip, and one hand opening as being tactical, but thats a whole different topic than the OP intended. I just call most of them modern knives, and they're definately not a traditional.

cncpro11 said:
approaching meltdown velocity
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I take it he doesn't care much for the thread:p
 
Important terms for such a discussion:

'Tactical' - Of, relating to, or constituting an action completed to achieve a specific, intended purpose - most often relating to military.

'Tool' - an object used for a purpose.

'Knife' - an object used for cutting.


A knife is a tool. This is not philosophy, it is terminology. A "tactical knife" is simply a 'knife with a purpose, probably relating to military use.' Again, not philosophy, just terminology.

A knife marketed as "tactical" should meet this definition, i.e. fulfill the purpose(s) which military personnel would set it to. If it does not, then it is a failure. If it does, good. If it also suits non-military personnel or tasks unrelated to military use, all the better.

However, it is not designed for those unrelated tasks. If the design impedes use for such non-related tasks, that is USER error.

That does not mean that every knife marketed as "tactical" succeeds at achieving the goal its marketing suggests. Indeed, many may be simply deemed "tactical" to charge the imaginations of potential consumers. The onus is on the consumer to understand the tool he/she is acquiring.

As to knives as weapons - knives are cutting tools which means that ANY knife might be used as a weapon to greater or lesser effect depending on design. However, knives are NOT "weapons" by definition. And indeed "tactical" knives are NOT intended first and foremost as weapons - they are multipurpose tools. That said, most "tactical" knives need to be able to function as weapons when called upon to do so. If they cannot, fail.
As to dark blades, they are a boon to civilians like myself commonly in office settings and public, as they attract less attention from the mass of citizens who view knives strictly as "weapons" despite their own use of them everyday as non-weapon tools.
Grips with excellent retention are also a boon. If they tear up your pants, modify as needed to ameliorate the problem (e.g. get better pants, use a sheath, etc.). Personally, i don't like knives slipping out of my pocket unintentionally. I like a secure lock i can depend upon not to fail on my fingers. I like spring-assisted opening that ensures full engagement of the lock. I like to be able to operate my knife entirely with a single hand, preferably either hand. I like serrations and a sharp point. I also like sufficient lateral strength to allow use as a miniature prybar when necessary. I like all of these features for the advantages they give me on an everyday basis. For me, NONE of these features are "tactical" as relating to military use, yet many are found on knives marketed as "tactical".

For me, "tactical" does NOT represent "an undesirable design feature", indeed just the opposite.
 
Seems a bit much like the little essay papers, written in high schools or colleges all over, which try to change/enlighten the world.

It's too easy to think you know "what's what" based off of thinking and theory.
 
tobii3 said:
There's this thing called a "sheath" that attaches to your belt....
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And just to add, there are ways by which one can "sand" down grippy G-10 under a clip to avoid ruining fabric. Takes all of five minutes.

But again, buy a knife for the features YOU want. If you don't want grippy scales or whatever you think "tactical" is (I know, there was a definition above, but that would make this whole discussion all to simple) and/or you don't want to mod it, then don't buy it. To each their own....
 
chiral.grolim said:
A "tactical knife" is simply a 'knife with a purpose, probably relating to military use.'
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Which is entirely meaningless, there is no 'military' application of a knife. There are a lot of different knives that have been issued or carried NSNs, and they had nothing in common except for an edge and a handle.

Every single object ever created is tactical by a definition of having an intended purpose.
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
Seems a bit much like the little essay papers, written in high schools or colleges all over, which try to change/enlighten the world.

It's too easy to think you know "what's what" based off of thinking and theory.
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But then again, this is a "forum" where people come to discuss ideas and opinions and share information...about knives among other things.

It is also too easy to dismiss others by insulting them and having no valid or respectful counter argument.
 
hardheart said:
... there is no 'military' application of a knife. There are a lot of different knives that have been issued or carried NSNs, and they had nothing in common except for an edge and a handle.

Every single object ever created is tactical by a definition of having an intended purpose.
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Not quite the sense of the definition. Every tool is "tactical" in that sense, but the term is most often used in reference to military operations (throughout history, I might add - is simply anglicized Greek word), hence that incorporation. Looking at military issue knives from history, many have a great deal in common to the point of being difficult to distinguish between, the most recognizable being the KaBar.

The fact that so many knives are now marketed as "tactical", even with a certain level of serious sincerity (e.g. Gerber, Fox, Benchmade, Leatherman, etc.), indeed testifies to the great variation one might employ in designing a knife for military personnel, much more so anyone else. Why is it that so many military knives of the last few centuries look so similar? Why do chef's knives appear by-and-large identical to most observers?

But there are specific design features catering toward intended uses, including blade length, profile, steel hardness ... really every feature can be designed to improve end-user function.

"Tactical" features:
Dark blade = less noticable
pocket-clip = simple carry, readily accessible, easily concealed
Thumb-stud/hole/disk = single-hand operation folder
locking-blade = increased strength & reliability in a folder against myriad force vectors
thick stock = increased lateral strength (prying)
Serrations = increased cutting performance on fibrous and flexible/resilient material
multiple grind angles = varied levels of durability and cutting performance on a single blade
contoured handle = ease of indexing
abrasive handle = increased retention
steel liners = increased strength
stainless steel = reduced maintenance


But I'd like to ask what the point is, in fixed blades, of full-width full length full-stock tangs... They add weight without significant needed strength, they reduce comfort through conduction of heat/cold/electricity/impact... I guess it is just cheaper to do it that way...
 
Oakengroves said:
...This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible. Let's be honest here: how many of you have ever, in any way, used a knife in a self-defense situation? Ten-percent of forum goers, perhaps? How many people in the general population, which consists overwhelmingly of civilian EDC and outdoorsman users, have ever used a knife in a tactical application? ....
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And yet when SD is mentioned, almost immediately a firearm is suggested. So how many people here of the "overwhelmingly of civilian EDC and outdoorsman users", have used a gun in a "tactical" application? If so few people have been in SD scenarios, why even suggest carrying a gun?
 
cncpro11 said:
But then again, this is a "forum" where people come to discuss ideas and opinions and share information...about knives among other things.

It is also too easy to dismiss others by insulting them and having no valid or respectful counter argument.
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Yes indeed, it's just too often tainted by judgemental opinions and beliefs that try to be definitive outside of a specific, individual, small bubble of experience and need.

Everybody is already aware of the average person's day to day not requiring more than a Vic Classic or plastic safety scissors. If it's an emergency or a job or hobby that might require a little different - opinion not seasoned by personal experience of those won't see things the same way and has limited value.

In other words - if somebody is long-term emergency personnel and likes to use tactical knives, what would it serve anybody if an 18 year old kid or 30 year old accountant who hasn't done much outside of home, school, part time job at the mall or mcdonalds, cubicle or office tells him tactical knives are silly, worthless, etc.

There just isn't much respect for shushing up and learning while staying in your lane. Too many pass on their sacred wisdom on forums and youtube after a year or so of owning a knife and very limited use.
 
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