Thanks all. I think it boiled down to this. Simon slapped HI in the face. In his opinion, he did it to wake HI up. He had issues with HI and still does, and some of them where issues we have raised ourselves. His timing sucked, his presentation was offensive and he is unapologetic. That is who he is, he does it everywhere about everything. He is controversial and not a well liked person with a lot of people here and in the Martial Arts community. He is also a catalyst for change. If him doing what he did, the way he did it, caused change, then he accomplished his goal. That is how he gets things done. HI products are probably going to be better than ever thanks to this incident. He understands that and thinks it a good thing. He has on his own forum said as much and that he thinks there is room for his company and HI as they are aimed at different things, maybe I helped him understand that better, I don't know. I don't think you'll get an apology out of him, so don't expect it. He still has issues with HI and their designs and names for them. He is a purist and thinks HI is off the mark about some things. His definitions for things are not the same as ours and he doesn't make that clear very well. I don't think we've heard the last of him. I hope he takes what I told him to heart and communicates better in the future, but I doubt it. There are some stand up guys on his forum and it was a lot like here. They love khuks too and I hope I helped clear up some things that got lost in the fighting.