Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

Im not a fan of gec business model either and it seems people think marketing is only advertisement. Though i do think it was implied pretty well that these knives are mostly hard to get because of the dealers. They have their “favorite” customers instead of selling straight up. I agree with a few others and would prefer to send my money to a different company like schatt and morgan. Hopefully this new rendition is successful. Gec needs competition, we all win if that happens. You already have to be careful to tiptoe around the gec apologists when discussing their possible flaws.
 
Mass1632 said:
Though i do think it was implied pretty well that these knives are mostly hard to get because of the dealers. They have their “favorite” customers instead of selling straight up.
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I have never experienced this - but, to be fair, I don't shop with all of the dealers. The ones that I do shop with don't play favorites - I win some and I lose some (that's a fact).

But if you do have evidence that dealers play favorites, then please, by all means - that's what the GB&U is for, I'd love to hear of them and I'm sure we would all benefit from knowing who we need to stay away from.

Mass1632 said:
Gec needs competition, we all win if that happens.
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I absolutely agree - that's something that everyone should be excited about.

Mass1632 said:
You already have to be careful to tiptoe around the gec apologists when discussing their possible flaws.
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I'm a GEC fan - I guess that makes me an unapologetic apologist (see what I did there? :cool:). No one should tiptoe around anyone here, I sure don't. If an argument is to be made, I'll always back it up and I expect those I'm having a discussion with to do the same.

I am generally supportive of GEC but I'm free with my criticism where it is is warranted (usually by way of QC issues, pattern execution, and bone production). Their business model warrants no criticism, in my opinion, and if one thinks it does - 1.) I'd like to see what alternative model would be suggested and 2.) how one thinks S&M might differ and meet the same level of success.

One still has to bear in mind that no one knows GEC's business better than Bill and his crew - so a lot of what we might discuss regarding what they should or should not do is apt to be pure speculation.

(One caveat to some of this is that I credit a fair amount of my success to the good relationships that I've made here. If I miss out on a run or am looking for a specific variant - more than once, a friend here has helped me out.)
 
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Mass1632 said:
Though i do think it was implied pretty well that these knives are mostly hard to get because of the dealers.
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The knives are hard to get because of math.
The current run of 74s is said to be 200 knives per cover, times 4 covers equals 800 knives. There are 1700 members in the one FB GEC club I am in. That's just one club. Demand far out paces supply that is what makes it hard to get a knife. That also is the starting point for everything else that irritates you. You may believe that the way the knives are sold is not "fair" however that is not the reason they are hard to come by. You are correct that more options for the consumer is and will be better.
 
Single spring, Californian Clip/Coping. I think from the 2006 series

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Pàdruig said:
I have never experienced this - but, to be fair, I don't shop with all of the dealers. The ones that I do shop with don't play favorites - I win some and I lose some (that's a fact).

But if you do have evidence that dealers play favorites, then please, by all means - that's what the GB&U is for, I'd love to hear of them and I'm sure we would all benefit from knowing who we need to stay away from.



I absolutely agree - that's something that everyone should be excited about.



I'm a GEC fan - I guess that makes me an unapologetic apologist (see what I did there? :cool:). No one should tiptoe around anyone here, I sure don't. If an argument is to be made, I'll always back it up and I expect those I'm having a discussion with to do the same.

I am generally supportive of GEC but I'm free with my criticism where it is is warranted (usually by way of QC issues, pattern execution, and bone production). Their business model warrants no criticism, in my opinion, and if one thinks it does - 1.) I'd like to see what alternative model would be suggested and 2.) how one thinks S&M might differ and meet the same level of success.

One still has to bear in mind that no one knows GEC's business better than Bill and his crew - so a lot of what we might discuss regarding what they should or should not do is apt to be pure speculation.

(One caveat to some of this is that I credit a fair amount of my success to the good relationships that I've made here. If I miss out on a run or am looking for a specific variant - more than once, a friend here has helped me out.)
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I don't agree that dealers can't play favorites...... If a customer is loyal to a dealer why is it wrong for the dealer to show preferred status to that customer?..... Many on here boast about their favorite dealer cherry picking the best stag, closest centering and other attributes because they are loyal customers and the dealer takes care of their wants and whims..... If I give a dealer 95% of my business, I think I should be near the front of the line..... If I'm not at the front of the line then I'll go somewhere where I will be...... This is what building customer/supplier relationships is about.....
 
HEMI 49 said:
I don't agree that dealers can't play favorites...... If a customer is loyal to a dealer why is it wrong for the dealer to show preferred status to that customer?..... Many on here boast about their favorite dealer cherry picking the best stag, closest centering and other attributes because they are loyal customers and the dealer takes care of their wants and whims..... If I give a dealer 95% of my business, I think I should be near the front of the line..... If I'm not at the front of the line then I'll go somewhere where I will be...... This is what building customer/supplier relationships is about.....
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That is an understandable point of view for someone that spends a good bit on knives. But the guy that can just purchase a couple knives a year and eagerly awaits that perfect pattern in that perfect handle may not agree when your dealer takes it out of his hand and ships it to you. Dealers show appreciation in many ways; I just don't agree that it has to be purely by a customers spend. But, there are dealers that don't agree and have their list of preferred customers - just make sure you stay on it ;)

Dealers make the decisions they make and live with the consequences. Any dealer that loses your friendship or business is the worse for it.
 
HEMI 49 said:
I don't agree that dealers can't play favorites...... If a customer is loyal to a dealer why is it wrong for the dealer to show preferred status to that customer?..... Many on here boast about their favorite dealer cherry picking the best stag, closest centering and other attributes because they are loyal customers and the dealer takes care of their wants and whims..... If I give a dealer 95% of my business, I think I should be near the front of the line..... If I'm not at the front of the line then I'll go somewhere where I will be...... This is what building customer/supplier relationships is about.....
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How does a dealer know that you are giving them 95% of your business?
What about a dealer that sells an exclusive product, like a knife with an arrowhead on it? Most people give that dealer 100% of their knife-with-an-arrowhead business. Who gets the special treatment then?
 
Norcaldude said:
How does a dealer know that you are giving them 95% of your business?
What about a dealer that sells an exclusive product, like a knife with an arrowhead on it? Most people give that dealer 100% of their knife-with-an-arrowhead business. Who gets the special treatment then?
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I really don't care how a dealer runs his business...... Customers will find a dealer that they can warm up to and feel comfortable with..... If I want to have a relationship devoid of any loyalty or appreciation I could spend my dollars at Cabela's, Amazon, etc....
My point was I like to take care of those that take of me...... I don't believe in participation trophies..... I expect to earn anything I receive.....
 
Norcaldude said:
Looks like the model number is 041001. ATS-34 steel.
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JohnDF said:
I'm hoping the new S&M knives will have GEC-like quality builds...
But with better jigging on their bone and more consistent actions from one model to the next.
I see this as GEC's biggest knocks.
Dare to dream. :D
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You and me both! I do expect that there will probably be some growing pains and a learning curve for the new Schatt & Morgan company.
I am but a simple Civil Engineer, according to my Wife an emphasis on “simple”, but I would think a the first couple of products out of the factory would be a single blade pattern in 1095 steel. I would also think they are probably looking at popular and easy cover materials. A wood of some sort like ebony, it always seems to be popular. A smooth bone until they get a jigging pattern they like and possibly a synthetic like a micarta of some sort.
Maybe I am wrong here but I would think that something like a single bladed copperhead or barlow pattern would be easier to construct than a stockman for example. Select handle cover materials that are easy to do and fairly popular for the first few runs of knifes. This way bugs in the process can be ironed out and build from there to more complicated knife designs with various stainless steel blades.
I am sure Mr. Cooper has already thought of this and is making good decisions.

I really do hope to see the new Schatt & Morgan knives have build quality that rivals GEC because GEC really does produce great knives.
 
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One of the things that really irks me about GEC’s distribution is how if you follow the links for several of their authorized dealers, it takes you directly to the Bay. That doesn’t sit right with me. :thumbsdown:

Now back on topic, this lovely S&M keystone English jack came today. It’s gorgeous and its fit and finish are superb. It has joined one of my modern/traditional edc pairings...
AVRUhi0.jpg

I love it! :)
 
GeofS said:
One of the things that really irks me about GEC’s distribution is how if you follow the links for several of their authorized dealers, it takes you directly to the Bay. That doesn’t sit right with me. :thumbsdown:

Now back on topic, this lovely S&M keystone English jack came today. It’s gorgeous and its fit and finish are superb. It has joined one of my modern/traditional edc pairings...
AVRUhi0.jpg

I love it! :)
Click to expand...

That is a beauty!!..... You could almost whip that out in church and trim the wick on the prayer candle.......
 
Let's keep the pictures of traditional knives only, please.
 
GeofS said:
One of the things that really irks me about GEC’s distribution is how if you follow the links for several of their authorized dealers, it takes you directly to the Bay. That doesn’t sit right with me. :thumbsdown:

Now back on topic, this lovely S&M keystone English jack came today. It’s gorgeous and its fit and finish are superb. It has joined one of my modern/traditional edc pairings...
AVRUhi0.jpg

I love it! :)
Click to expand...

whoa i didnt even know something like that is still floating around! i do hope to see more single blade english jacks in the long run
 
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