Which sword for the untrained?

It would seem to me that without training a sword could easily be passed by an attacker, so I think Gladius, but then didn't Rapiers prove themselves "king of the hill" back when swords were actually in use?
No. Or to be more precise there was never an all-around king of the hill. Different swords are better suited for different combat situations, styles, and environments (social, geographical, or otherwise). The production capabilities of different regions has also historically played a tremendous role in sword design and use. Just compare the evolution of warfare between Japan and europe and you'll see what I mean.

It's also important to remember that as tools of battle swords were never the stars of the show. Artillery, archery, and spears thrown or held have all had a much more significant role.



So, if you were going to recommend a sword for a completely untrained person to use to defend themselves, what would it be and why?
A barong machete from cold steel. Whether to go with the 12 or 18 inch blade depends on the person. There's no need to go spending hundreds of dollars on something you'll probably never use for anything except amusement.

A barong, even cs' inexpensive version of it, is a fearsome piercing and slicing weapon. It wouldn't take any remarkable skill or strength to take someones arm or head off with it (assuming a good edge). Don't assume from the price that a cs barong machete is a less deadly weapon than a "real sword".


What sword would you choose (and why) to face an unknown opponent in an undefined environment? Said opponent may be armed with anything below the level of firearms.
That's a fun question. I think a long barong with a handle big enough to hold with both hands would be the best pick for me. It would be well suited to stabbing through kevlar, it could chop/shear in a mean way, and it wouldn't get in the way in tight quarters. Furthermore it's not a fragile weapon so if I felt inclined to beat at my enemy's weapon or helmet or whatever I could do so without fear of breaking it.

Here's a video that shows very well how little space is required to cut someone up with a barong.
[youtube]Q5ltL33ClKk[/youtube]


Now I must make an important clarification- I would rather go with a good old fashioned medieval longsword if I had the training to use it properly. Those weapons are far more formidable than most people imagine in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing. I am not such a person.
 
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Don't use a sword for home defense.

It's not as good as a gun at saving your life or -- better yet -- scaring away bad guys at the last moment, and you're far more likely to get in trouble for using it.

When it comes to explaining self defense after the fact, you don't want to look like some freak with a sword just waiting to stab some hapless dude unnecessarily.

Get the tamest, grampa-friendly shotgun (preferable) or pistol you can find.
 
What sword would you choose (and why) to face an unknown opponent in an undefined environment? Said opponent may be armed with anything below the level of firearms.

If I was limited to something from my own collection, I'd choose my Talibon. It's longer than the barong I have, but still very fast, and yet not so big as to be hopeless indoors:

Talibon20061003_sm.jpg


Other choices in this size category that I don't own would be wakizashi, gladius (gladii?) et cetera. These are sort of the "jack of all trades" picks for a variety of scenarios... if there's the chance of being in the open or in cramped conditions, these are the compromises that might be met with a short sword. Not to say any of the above would guarantee victory against any other non-firearm weapon.

Get the tamest, grampa-friendly shotgun (preferable) or pistol you can find.

Funny how the relatively common shotgun is about as devastating as you can get for close-quarters... and yet the law will be more likely to frown on just about anything else used ni such a situation. Well, it DOES have the hunting utility aspect that may soften the judgement.
 
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Thanks AfterTFD- does that barong bear a remarkable resemblance to a gladius, or is it just me? That vid makes a good argument for only having one edge sharp. Do you know if the CS barong is any heavier than their Latin machete?

Very cool short sword, C.S.! Thanks for the pic.

I am very well armed at home, but I've got to tell you my shotgun will be the last thing I grab unless I'm going outside- just thinking about that thing going off in a hallway makes me miss my hearing! At the ranges inside my house I have plenty of faith in my handguns (.45 & .357)- they're also what I have the most practice with.
 
So, if you were going to recommend a sword for a completely untrained person to use to defend themselves, what would it be and why?

Just about any sword will do. Just make sure that it is a real sword and not a wall decoration. You do not want to inadvertently launch the blade across the room.

If you were going to duel someone it would be a different answer. But, for plain defense in an asymetrical confrontation, then anything would work as long as you are comfortable with it.

n2s
 
Thanks AfterTFD- does that barong bear a remarkable resemblance to a gladius, or is it just me? That vid makes a good argument for only having one edge sharp. Do you know if the CS barong is any heavier than their Latin machete?

Very cool short sword, C.S.! Thanks for the pic.

I am very well armed at home, but I've got to tell you my shotgun will be the last thing I grab unless I'm going outside- just thinking about that thing going off in a hallway makes me miss my hearing! At the ranges inside my house I have plenty of faith in my handguns (.45 & .357)- they're also what I have the most practice with.

hand guns are just as loud as a shotgun if not more so. And if you had to defend yourself, ringing in the ears is the last thing you should be worrying about.

And I would suggest you google "Gladius" if you think a barong looks like one. ;)
 
for both require skill, resolve and strategy in order to be successful.

This part I agree with.

Whether you face a sword, baseball bat, tire iron or piece of rebar the situation is approached the same their is no difference.

This part I do not. There is a world of difference in facing a thug armed with a tire iron and an adept swordsman.
 
Do you know if the CS barong is any heavier than their Latin machete?

Yes, they are heavier. The latin machetes are thinner (2mm vs 3mm) than all of the other cold steel machetes and the design is of course nowhere near as wide as the barong blade.

The cs kopis machete is another interesting design. It has been discontinued so anyone who wants one shouldn't wait too long.
 
This part I agree with.



This part I do not. There is a world of difference in facing a thug armed with a tire iron and an adept swordsman.


No there isn't. You need the exact same mind set to defeat both. Thinking that the thug is going to be easier to defeat because he is armed with a tire iron is overconfidence in your sword.

Awhile back I believe Bruce Lee was asked the question of the two skilled and unskilled which do you like to spar with. He said unskilled. The reason is the have no preconceptions of what to do they just react. While unskilled fighters can be easy to read and rattle the point is they can be very unpredictable in there reactions. Remember it only takes one strike to kill and how many times have you blindsided someone better than you with a "lucky" blow while sparing. Defeating both will require skill and a free mind, so in essence both must be treated the same.
 
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Thanks AfterTFD- does that barong bear a remarkable resemblance to a gladius, or is it just me? That vid makes a good argument for only having one edge sharp. Do you know if the CS barong is any heavier than their Latin machete?

Very cool short sword, C.S.! Thanks for the pic.

I am very well armed at home, but I've got to tell you my shotgun will be the last thing I grab unless I'm going outside- just thinking about that thing going off in a hallway makes me miss my hearing! At the ranges inside my house I have plenty of faith in my handguns (.45 & .357)- they're also what I have the most practice with.


Touching off a gun in a confined space is a bit hard on the ears. There is one possible solution, electronic ear protection. They very in price and from maker to maker however in effect they attenuate noise levels to around the 85db range. Some of the more expensive models designed for hunting will also amplify sound but clamp spikes (gunfire) protecting the ears. Some have mentioned that they keep a pair with there house gun. Probably not a bad Idea.
 
No there isn't. You need the exact same mind set to defeat both. Thinking that the thug is going to be easier to defeat because he is armed with a tire iron is overconfidence in your sword.

Like I said, mindset perhaps, skill set is another thing again.

Awhile back I believe Bruce Lee was asked the question of the two skilled and unskilled which do you like to spar with. He said unskilled. The reason is the have no preconceptions of what to do they just react. While unskilled fighters can be easy to read and rattle the point is they can be very unpredictable in there reactions. Remember it only takes one strike to kill and how many times have you blindsided someone better than you with a "lucky" blow while sparing. Defeating both will require skill and a free mind, so in essence both must be treated the same.

Or more succinctly I've heard it put that the best swordsman in the world has nothing to fear from the second best swordsman in the world... it's the world's worst swordsman he should be wary of.
 
I am very well armed at home, but I've got to tell you my shotgun will be the last thing I grab unless I'm going outside- just thinking about that thing going off in a hallway makes me miss my hearing!

This is the sort of thing that makes a person wonder why North American law is so dead set against supressors. In Finland, I've read that they're considered a tool to reduce hearing damage among firearm users, not mafia hitman stealth-accessories. :confused:

Bors, interesting Lee quote. Don't think I had heard that one before. I bet it'd provoke a heated 10 page thread in Practical Tactical. :D
 
This is the sort of thing that makes a person wonder why North American law is so dead set against supressors. In Finland, I've read that they're considered a tool to reduce hearing damage among firearm users, not mafia hitman stealth-accessories. :confused:

Because they were banned during the depression to keep people from poaching game, if I recall correctly. And like all misguided unconstitutional laws, they never get repealed.
 
Or more succinctly I've heard it put that the best swordsman in the world has nothing to fear from the second best swordsman in the world... it's the world's worst swordsman he should be wary of.




Yep....
 
Because they were banned during the depression to keep people from poaching game, if I recall correctly. And like all misguided unconstitutional laws, they never get repealed.

Ahh, now that I did not know. I'm sure the ban resulted in a 100% drop in poaching too. :rolleyes:
 
Ontario knife company machete. quality and function for dirt cheap.

Or a Gen 2 Gladius.
 
Don't spend alot of money on a sword yet. Figure out what kind of art you want to take, then get training in it. IE, Japanese swordsmanship, european styles, etc.

If you must get a sword, get a cheap-o machette to chop on stuff with. Cold Steel (among others) makes some good cheap machette's in various styles. Or if you want something a little nicer, go to the sub-forum on these forums, the Himilayan Imports one, and look at their cool Kukri's (they also have good deals on real, useable swords every once in awhile) If you must get a sharp sword in the style you're wanting to take, don't spend a ton of money on it right away - get something cheap (but useable) and spend your real money on training / practice weapons. Then save up and get a nice sword in the style you've trained in.

If you just want a sword to screw around with - get something short. Less chance to hit something you don't want to hit :)
 
I think I now have the question I should have asked-

What sword would you choose (and why) to face an unknown opponent in an undefined environment? Said opponent may be armed with anything below the level of firearms.

This is meant to be fun for those participating and informative to those like me trying to learn.

Thanks again to those "engaging" in this discussion :D

I'm going to recommend an Oakshott Type XIV like Albion's Soveriegn or Yeoman. You can see them aon their website:
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-sovereign-xiv.htm
These swords are superb cut and thrust swords, light, and agile - fast reversal of direction, point goes where you send it, fast recovery for defense. And a book on I.33 techniques to learn it's secrets. Of course, rapiers can be a "long range" deterent, too:http://www.sword.cz/rapiers.htm

I like this maker's Pappenheimer. I want to order it but now it's in competition with a KMG!!
 
My 1st response is none.....
If you must, give a hanwei banshee, (don't know if I spelled that right) It's a Thai krabi, 18+ inch blade, 12 inch handle that's easily converted to shape your hands, can be used 1 or 2 handed, steel OK, can be sharpened to a scary edge, and its cheap. or go go for a cheness ko-katana 9260 diff.hard. it cuts well..
If your going to get into a brawl with either, without any training, you'll die, but have fun..G..
 
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