Which sword for the untrained?

sirahren said:
It doesnt matter about his credentials. No archaeologist or historian or even (I'm guessing) swordsman worth their salt would say 'dont argue with me because...' They argue all the time about all sorts of stuff.

Not only that but its obvious several of his points are dead wrong.

I assume its meant to be trollish or tongue in cheek... I hope.
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Oh I know. Just thought I'd give him a chance to save himself before the vultures picked his eyes out. :D

Bors said:
Clearly the words of a great ego.........

Perhaps you are and perhaps your not one thing is for sure you've started off on the wrong foot. Best to start again... ;)
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Well said.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Oh I know. Just thought I'd give him a chance to save himself before the vultures picked his eyes out. :D



Well said.
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Yeah, youre right. It came off a little undiplomatic, and I didnt add anything to the thread which makes me almost as bad.

Mea Culpa.

To contribute to the subject I vote Mace, a nice cross between a sword and the perfect defensive tool: an axe handle.

Also to Triton I belive: The Katana is the ultimate sword, I guess you've never seen any of the History channel specials origionally aired on UPN I think) about the legendary Duncan MacLeod? As far as I know he and his forebearer bested all other types of sword in real deadly combat.
 
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sirahren said:
To contribute to the subject I vote Mace, a nice cross between a sword and the perfect defensive tool: an axe handle.
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How about this one? :D

csstoreonline_2050_1725443


It's shaped like a sword, but...
 
i have been "messing" around with swords since i was young. "Fighting" my dad with rolled up newspapers. Evolving into building what amounts to cardboard 2x4s to smash friends with on to sophisticated "boffer" weapons and live steel (practice/stage dulled).

Swords are cool, if you want one get one, if you have the chance go some where you can heft a few different ones. Stay away fro the "wallhangers" unless they are for decoration only.

The type of sword one chooses as most all have said before me is subjective to the user, feel balance etc.

If you are toting this purchase as for self/home defense... perhaps it is, perhaps you are just trying to fool yourself or the wife as you want some new toy to play with. hehe

First off, Imagine the space you are going to occupy with it. Better yet, get a yard stick or even a metal tape measure, and "patrol" your home / space with it. You will see why some advise against a 3-4foot sword for space reasons. Swinging a yardstick/Meterstick around in your hall way will show you the limits of space.

Some one had mentioned a spear. A "zulu" spear or short spear can be used in most areas because it us used to stab, more often than slash. In addition it has the added advantage of a bit more range than the typical sword.
Also I believe as history shows it was a more simple task to learn / train with a spear rather than a sword.

But alas any way you shake it .... sword/spear long/short slashing stabbing fancy/plain 8000.00 or 40.00 do your self a little favor and do some, gets some, take some training.

With out at least some practice you are as likely to slice your own leg off as you are the "intruder".

Oh yea, once you get one knife or sword or spear type thingie ... you will want more for sure, ask anyone around here.

Pointy
 
Well, since this thread has been resurrected (I thought it would be tacky to do it myself) I can tell you that I ended up with a CS Gim. I was pretty surprised at that, but after spending almost half a day holding everything in the store (I found a store that had LOTS of swords!) that seemed at all likely, it felt the best and lightest of anything I could afford.

My design criteria was to be able to cut and thrust and and be as short as possible. Added to that was sturdiness, light weight and balance- at least as well as I could tell.

I am perfectly happy with this as a first sword- it is very sharp, seems decently built and balanced, and while obviously not the best, it far exceeds what I would've thought reasonable to expect for anywhere near the price.

More important than the sword per se is what it has taught me already. Please don't think I didn't believe the many warnings I got here- I did- but I still wanted the experience. Holding 30 inches of double-edged very sharp steel gives you(me) a very eery and instant respect for what a sword is. I think my hair actually stood up a little when I got it home and in hand. It is one thing to know how dangerous a sword can be, another to actually experience it. All thought of taking it in the backyard and swinging it around left my head. I can see how important controlling the angle and direction of the cut is, and how little of that control I currently have (stick "play swords" don't really teach you about hitting with the edge).

I went back to the store the next weekend and got a wooden practice sword just to build up some strength and control, and am already to the point where I can do some of the exercises with the sheathed sword. I am having a blast and looking for a couple of books to get me started.

As far as the original premise of this thread, I can see that my concern about length was even more valid than I had thought and for more than one reason. My next sword will be the Dahong Palay from here- http://www.typhoon-gear.com/products.htm I am sure it will be a much better "sword for the untrained". Meanwhile, I will see about getting some training "just because".

Please don't get me wrong- I have handguns and long guns if it ever came down to a real need to defend myself. That doesn't stop me from wanting to develop other abilities. Swords (and nearly all weapons) have always appealed to me, and I'm finding it a very fun way to get in better shape.

Thanks for all the helpful posts, and watch your edges! (sounds like skiing!)
 
A d ring bowie is a serious fighting weapon. Any of the less than lethal stuff(taser's, asp's ect) are also good because there isn't going to be any hesitation to use them.
 
Can anyone suggest something to use to practice striking with a wooden practice sword?
 
MVF said:
Can anyone suggest something to use to practice striking with a wooden practice sword?
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For hard striking I used old car tires attached to a stand made from 4x4s (pell).
I also used a hanging heavy bag but i suggest you reinforce the striking area your bag will last longer. I prefer the tires to the bag, you can practice strikes from all directions.
 
Thanks Bors. What would you suggest for a first book? I see Amazon has a book on practice cutting- are you familiar with it? A Practical Guide to Test Cutting for Historical Swordsmanship by Scott M. Rodell (Author)
 
Here's the cheapest way to get a striking target- go down to your local McDonalds in the evening and ask for them to save you five or six of the empty cardboard boxes that the fries and fried products come in when they do stock. Stack them up and glue them together. Put weight in the bottom one to keep the stack in place.

You can also use this same target for knife throwing practice (will not ever chip or break the blade) and for actual cutting practice with cheap blades. The silica in the cardboard will do a good job of dulling and possibly scratching the blade if you cut it but it will do a great job of showing you how straight you can cut without risking bending the blade.
 
MVF said:
Thanks Bors. What would you suggest for a first book? I see Amazon has a book on practice cutting- are you familiar with it? A Practical Guide to Test Cutting for Historical Swordsmanship by Scott M. Rodell (Author)
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I can't comment on it because I have not read it. Dwight Mclemore's books specifically the 2 bowie books and the sword book are well worth getting. The most important thing to work on is edge alignment. This is a function of grip and arm rotation. If the edge maintains proper alignment passing through the target the cut will be straight. If not depending on misalignment you will get scooping and wave patterns. Striking a pell will not teach you this. Listening to the sword will. When a sword moves through the air if the edge is aligned correctly it will make a high pitch. As it gets out of alignment the pitch will lower. The sound will vary with sword design and blade profile. Some will be very loud while others will hardly make a sound. Bokens will make the same sound but the pitch will be lower. The object is not to swing the sword fast but smoothly. This is what I mean by listening to the sword.
 
Thank you both- great info!

I had planned on getting Dwight's book as he has so many very positive reviews on his other books. I was a bit disappointed he didn't respond to my question earlier in this thread. Is his material equally useful for European as well as Japanese swords? The edge alignment issue became very obvious to me as soon as I held the blade and started thinking about any actual use- that's why I thought of starting with the test cutting book. Am I right that blade alignment is much easier/more natural with a katana or cutlass-type blade than with a single handed straight blade?

Coincidentally. the series "The Deadliest Warrior" has some excellent slow motion shots of swords in action that really illustrate what happens when edge alignment isn't perfect. It is amazing how much the sword flexes as a result of the force having to be absorbed by the blade instead of cutting
 
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MVF said:
Thank you both- great info!

I had planned on getting Dwight's book as he has so many very positive reviews on his other books. I was a bit disappointed he didn't respond to my question earlier in this thread. Is his material equally useful for European as well as Japanese swords? The edge alignment issue became very obvious to me as soon as I held the blade and started thinking about any actual use- that's why I thought of starting with the test cutting book. Am I right that blade alignment is much easier/more natural with a katana or cutlass-type blade than with a single handed straight blade?
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Dwights books are well worth studying. Conceptually the illustrations are broad in application.

Edge alignment starts with the grip and not the design of the sword. The sword/knife grip must fit the hand. Next comes maintaining alignment during movement which comes with practice and observation. When you can constantly maintain the correct tone then move on to light cutting. Don't cut just to cut but instead examine each cut and make adjustments in mechanics and technique as needed. It is also a good idea to practice the cut in front of the target first with out cutting it until you confident that your sword is aligned correctly. Once confident with the basic cuts then apply the same steps to more complex cuts. Correct edge alignment is the path of least resistance.....

Coincidentally. the series "The Deadliest Warrior" has some excellent slow motion shots of swords in action that really illustrate what happens when edge alignment isn't perfect. It is amazing how much the sword flexes as a result of the force having to be absorbed by the blade instead of cutting
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Correct and all that flexing is wasted energy which of course can put sets in blades or worst case break them.
 
Aside from the arguments I see going around, If an untrained individual is considering getting a sword for self defense, I believe it should be a very simple to use, ONE edged blade, preferably not very long, and relatively easy to use (aka not heavy nor to long). Maybe something along the lines of a large light Khuk, or a Pira or Barong could do pull it off, even a huge Bowie or Wakizashi could do the trick.

My reasoning behind using a short one edged sword is basically that if don't really have much idea what you are doing with the sword, for simply basic personal security you don't want to have a sharp edge pointing at you and you don't want something so big u really never know where its going to land when you try to cut.
 
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