Which sword for the untrained?

nvr2late- Thanks for the suggestions and links- those rapiers are gorgeous! I think I would have to go with the small sword. Albion's website is just torture- the Soveriegn seems like a good recommendation, but I couldn't find the Yeoman. About the best I could afford from them would be the Allectus. Is there an equivalent to the I.33 that doesn't include the buckler? Or is the I.33 still valuable for use without the buckler?

galen59-That Banshee is a very interesting piece- and such a deal! It seems a very good suggestion for untrained hands.

As to the brawl- obviously if we're talking about an opponent skilled with a sword, I'm dead- but the question was against an opponent with anything else- a knife, club, stick, etc. Wouldn't you give the right sword an advantage? That's the question- which sword in the hands of an untrained combatant is going to give him the best chance, since as you point out- the wrong sword could easily be more of a liability than an asset?
 
do not conform the weapon to yourself, for this can only bring weakness. rather conform yourself to the weapon and build upon its strength. get training.
 
Swords are like people they all have different personalities, the more you expose your self to the better you become at managing them. However, in the beginning, learning will be best served and less frustrating with a sword whose personality closely matches your own.
 
Bors said:
Swords are like people they all have different personalities, the more you expose your self to the better you become at managing them. However, in the beginning, learning will be best served and less frustrating with a sword whose personality closely matches your own.
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Now there's some food for thought! Thank you.
 
Look at some of the material that is on-line. Saber, Rapier, Katana, Darn Dao . Don't get hung up on the historical aspect until you actually 'See' how the weapons work. For God's sake don't get the longsword sickness that everyone tends to be doing these days .. There are other weapons. Buy a cheap wooden or alluminum trainer and see how it behaves. If Phil is going to 'plug' his book, I might as well do the same. Seriously, it does address some of the issues that you may be going through. It is available through Paladin and is titled "The Fighting Sword" and is a pretty good coloring book for your children if you don't like the ideas.

All My Best Dwight.
 
No training? Get a boken or waster.

However if you are dead set on getting a live blade, a gladius isn't a bad choice for an indoor environment with little to no training. A German single-handed messer is also a good choice. For an edged weapon that requires minimal training to be used effectively, go for a spear--but they only function in an outdoor environment of course.
 
Thanks Dwight- what were your influences? How strongly Asian? A long blade is the last thing I would be looking for at this point, more along the lines of a gladius or since looking around more a "small sword".

Thanks for the tip on the messer, FTB, what do you think of the assegai?
 
MVF said:
Thanks for the tip on the messer, FTB, what do you think of the assegai?
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Just a note on spears.. the Zulu iklwa is said to function very similar to a long-handled gladius.... so I've read. I had a spearhead of close to proper proportions, but opted for a long haft instead.
 
I think it's strong enough and would work well for what it is. I just don't like the press-formed design and open socket. Hanwei and Windlass Steelcrafts make some pretty decent spears. I have the Windlass Viking Hewing Spear and it's like a sword on a stick. The best option, however, is definitely custom.
 
Using a sword is no game and you really have to use and carry one for a long time to see what's "right" for you,what I've found:

Anything over 24in in blade is gonna be useless,not only is it a bitch to carry but one needs room to use it,most sword or knife fights are close messy affairs so go short.

The best swords I'm finding are the oldest types i.e. Gladius,Greek and the like two edges to cut coming or going and wide enough that if you have to stab it'll make a mess of the target's insides,also will be able to hack off an arm or leg if need be.

Anybody who sezs "a sword is useless" makes me :grumpy: I carry both a pistol and sword whenever I go into the woods and if the gun jams or runs out of ammo I can show I have claws all my own,as to using it on a human? well if I have to I would and no crying about it.

But do be aware that you will be covered in gore and whatever else comes squirting out of were you cut.

*edit to add*

I still like single edge swords,one of my favs being the Chinese Dao,however I live out in the country so I can swing the bigger swords around plus most dao's are close to 24in (25 to 27 seems to be the norm)
 
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Hi I live in Australia and although I do have firearms the laws are such that (and I quote here)"It is an offence to own use or possess a firearm for the purposes of self defence".As such I have put a lot of thought into this question since my firearms are locked in a safe ,unloaded.I DO have the training to effectively use non firearms weapons and have a layered defence that includes large knives,machetes(try the spear point CS )and yes even a tomahawk !!! But the important thing in all this is the training and the will to use the weapon without these it doesnt really matter what you have, or how much it cost.
Oh and as you can guess I really recomend machetes and hatchets (also claw hammers) because you can use them around the yard(which is an excellent way of getting practice in cutting) and you don't come off to your friends and family (and the police)as a wannabe ninja.I do have more expensive and "better" swords knives etc but when things go bump in the night its usually a machete /long knife in one hand, maglight in the other.
 
Krull said:
Using a sword is no game and you really have to use and carry one for a long time to see what's "right" for you,what I've found:

Anything over 24in in blade is gonna be useless,not only is it a bitch to carry but one needs room to use it,most sword or knife fights are close messy affairs so go short.

The best swords I'm finding are the oldest types i.e. Gladius,Greek and the like two edges to cut coming or going and wide enough that if you have to stab it'll make a mess of the target's insides,also will be able to hack off an arm or leg if need be.

Anybody who sezs "a sword is useless" makes me :grumpy: I carry both a pistol and sword whenever I go into the woods and if the gun jams or runs out of ammo I can show I have claws all my own,as to using it on a human? well if I have to I would and no crying about it.
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Not to be rude, but why on earth would you feel the need to carry a sword in the woods? :confused: They really aren't good weapons for taking down anything but humans. Don't get me wrong--I love swords and have spent a great deal of my time studying and collecting them...but would never carry one for defense. To think otherwise is, in my own personal opinion, delusional.:eek:
 
Hmm... now, keeping in mind this thread is all about my ignorance, if you were facing a pack of dogs (which I have several times- luckily never had to defend against them), but say these particular dogs were wild and hungry enough to attack and you couldn't have a gun- wouldn't the thread topic "sword for the untrained" be the next best thing?

If not, why not, and what would you want to have?
 
I think a rapier would be somewhat easier to use because its lighter and kind of simple to thrust stab. That being said there is an art to the thrust that really allows it to reach out and touch someone. And I think it would still do a bit of damage in a slash.
Larger swords, i think, use more technique. Because of the weight its harder to get the sword moving and thus more techniques are involved. Ways that keep the sword moving by redirecting its energy and using it for an upswing or a deflection and a counter strike.
A rapier would work better in a hallway.
This being said im no sword expert, but I did stay in a holiday express.
 
MVF said:
Hmm... now, keeping in mind this thread is all about my ignorance, if you were facing a pack of dogs (which I have several times- luckily never had to defend against them), but say these particular dogs were wild and hungry enough to attack and you couldn't have a gun- wouldn't the thread topic "sword for the untrained" be the next best thing?

If not, why not, and what would you want to have?
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In that kind of situation, any weapon is better than with your bare hands. A sword you can use properly is particularly useful in my opinion.
 
eyeeatingfish said:
I think a rapier would be somewhat easier to use because its lighter and kind of simple to thrust stab. That being said there is an art to the thrust that really allows it to reach out and touch someone. And I think it would still do a bit of damage in a slash.
Larger swords, i think, use more technique. Because of the weight its harder to get the sword moving and thus more techniques are involved. Ways that keep the sword moving by redirecting its energy and using it for an upswing or a deflection and a counter strike.
A rapier would work better in a hallway.
This being said im no sword expert, but I did stay in a holiday express.
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You really wouldn't want a rapier. They're less instinctive to use as compared to a cutting sword and while they tend to be more lethal they also don't kill as fast or disable nearly as badly. They were a civilian defensive item that was suitable mostly for use against other rapiers, hence why you didn't find them in military usage. Larger swords don't necessarily require more technique to use, but rather you simply need to be more aware of your blade so that you don't get bound up by its length. However, that length is a significant advantage since it gives you a greater "area of attack" than an opponent with a shorter blade, thus enabling you to strike them without being at risk yourself.

Now, in terms of carrying and using a blade against dogs, I would have to recommend something a bit smaller than a typical sword. A very large knife would be ideal, as it is more portable and works better at the closer range that you would ultimately be facing. Remember--a polearm for the open field, but a knife for a telephone booth. ;)

A pack of dogs, if they so choose to attack, are going to quickly get closer than the range at which a sword is very effective. They'll be all over you in the blink of an eye and you're going to need something that's still usable in a grappling-type situation.

Once again, swords are for people. They work great on people. But not so great on animals, which is why the only swords meant for hunting were for dispatching collapsed and already wounded game.
 
For God's sake don't get the longsword sickness that everyone tends to be doing these days .. There are other weapons.
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Dwight, c'mon man! :D Why no love for the longsword? Sure it seems to get a lot of press, but personally I would love to see more people get involved in it. Then I might actually have more people to practice with! It took me a couple years of searching before I found some folks in St. Louis who study it (I think you know Scott Brown?) and there are now only three of us who attend practice regularly. Three, out of a metro area of nearly 3 million people.
 
I caught the longsword sickness a loooooong time ago. They're just such versatile blades that it's hard NOT to like them! :D
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
You really wouldn't want a rapier. They're less instinctive to use as compared to a cutting sword and while they tend to be more lethal they also don't kill as fast or disable nearly as badly. They were a civilian defensive item that was suitable mostly for use against other rapiers, hence why you didn't find them in military usage. Larger swords don't necessarily require more technique to use, but rather you simply need to be more aware of your blade so that you don't get bound up by its length. However, that length is a significant advantage since it gives you a greater "area of attack" than an opponent with a shorter blade, thus enabling you to strike them without being at risk yourself.

Now, in terms of carrying and using a blade against dogs, I would have to recommend something a bit smaller than a typical sword. A very large knife would be ideal, as it is more portable and works better at the closer range that you would ultimately be facing. Remember--a polearm for the open field, but a knife for a telephone booth. ;)

A pack of dogs, if they so choose to attack, are going to quickly get closer than the range at which a sword is very effective. They'll be all over you in the blink of an eye and you're going to need something that's still usable in a grappling-type situation.

Once again, swords are for people. They work great on people. But not so great on animals, which is why the only swords meant for hunting were for dispatching collapsed and already wounded game.
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This is why I'm shifting to a gladius type sword (actually having a friend customize a Greek sword from Windlass) at 18 to 22in you can move the thing around more like a big knife then a long sword.



FortyTwoBlades said:
Not to be rude, but why on earth would you feel the need to carry a sword in the woods? :confused: They really aren't good weapons for taking down anything but humans. Don't get me wrong--I love swords and have spent a great deal of my time studying and collecting them...but would never carry one for defense. To think otherwise is, in my own personal opinion, delusional.:eek:
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And bear hunters pack a big ass knife "just in case" I guess they're "delusional" too :eek:

To each his own my pistol gets used first,but if for some reason it doesn't do the job and things get personal I have a rather big claw to deal with if you hug me ;)
 
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