Why do knife snobs hate Cold Steel??

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RafaelHerschel what you call hype - Cold Steel calls "Proof"

I'm not a CS fanboy by the farthest stretch of the imagination - but I'd love to see Benchmade, Spyderco and Kershaw put their knives through the same "hype" tests on video.

I think there'd be some very long faces among the faithful. :)

Check out my post #51 for another take on their proof. It's nice to know the limits of your knife in advance as well.

The Warrior? No hype or gimmick there.
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The Civilian and the Perrin Street Beat, La Griffe - all marketed as self defense knives. There may be more? I have to Google that "Warrior" it's wild looking.
 
The Spyderco Warrior is just the newest incarnation of the classic Al Mar Warrior, REKAT Hobbit Warrior, etc. Definatly designed with a specific purpose in mind, being a reverse grip fighter, by Bob Taylor.
 
GrinderMcgee said:
Gimme a break. The Warrior? No hype or gimmick there.

SpydercoWarrior.jpg


They are all guilty of some blown up marketing but if 90% of your catalog is folders and slipjoints the chances of them being marketed as weapons is less, since folders are lesser weapons.
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I have to admit that the text on the Spyderco website about the Warrior is definitely full of marketing nonsense.

Still, if you compare the website of Cold Steel with the website of Spyderco it’s clear that Cold Steel uses more hyperbole, more claims of superiority and has a higher mall ninja factor.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with that. But I dislike the fact that because of the marketing some people who believe that Cold Steel knives are better because of the ‘proof’ that Cold steel provides.

I own a few mid level Cold Steel knives, and they are either (slightly) more expensive than knives that are just as good, or not as good than knives with a similar price (although there is not that much difference.)

At a higher price level, Cold Steel is seriously overpriced.
 
I read the ad copy for the Warrior on Spyderco's site. It's pretty much facts and not much hype there. That knife is what it is and some people have a need for it's features.
 
cziv said:
RafaelHerschel what you call hype - Cold Steel calls "Proof"

I'm not a CS fanboy by the farthest stretch of the imagination - but I'd love to see Benchmade, Spyderco and Kershaw put their knives through the same "hype" tests on video.

I think there'd be some very long faces among the faithful. :)

Check out my post #51 for another take on their proof. It's nice to know the limits of your knife in advance as well.



The Civilian and the Perrin Street Beat, La Griffe - all marketed as self defense knives. There may be more? I have to Google that "Warrior" it's wild looking.
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A friend of mine broke a Trailmaster by using it. That in itself doesn’t proof anything, but neither does the testing by Cold Steel.

I remember seeing a documentary about bodyguards. One of the bodyguards proudly showed his Cold Steel knife for ‘close combat’.

He claimed he could stab the knife repeatedly trough a car door. Later on I realized that he had gotten this idea from a Cold Steel ‘proof’ video.

I did the same thing with a 25 dollar Chinese knife. That didn’t proof anything either.
 
RoadMaster78 said:
I read the ad copy for the Warrior on Spyderco's site. It's pretty much facts and not much hype there. That knife is what it is and some people have a need for it's features.
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I love Spyderco and I love Spyderco knives. But the text about the Warrior is a bit much.

"...it possesses the same differential hardness properties of a clay-tempered Samurai sword, giving it extreme cutting power and shock resistance."

"...the original Warrior was a radical design intended primarily for use with reverse-grip tactics inspired by the Korean martial art of HwaRangDo. Produced in limited quantities by the late Al Mar and later resurrected by the martial artist Bob Taylor and Echanis contemporary Randy Wanner, it is one of the most coveted combat knives ever made.".

I mean, Bob Taylor is considerd one of the best wicket-keepers and the pride of Stoke-on-Trent. But why he needs a knife with the properties of a Samurai sword is beyond me.
 
The designers and users of the Warrior knives felt the need for certain features to be included in the design. Alot of folks likely wouldn't have much use for it.
Just saying that there isn't much hype around the Warrior model, compared to other makers claims, "worlds strongest sharpest knives", etc.
The Warrior was built for folks who found they had distinct uses for the design and materials in their particular art/style.
On the coveted part, original Al Mar Warriors and REKATs are very collectible. Not sure about the Spyderco variant yet though.
 
RoadMaster78 said:
The designers and users of the Warrior knives felt the need for certain features to be included in the design. Alot of folks likely wouldn't have much use for it.
Just saying that there isn't much hype around the Warrior model, compared to other makers claims, "worlds strongest sharpest knives", etc.
The Warrior was built for folks who found they had distinct uses for the design and materials in their particular art/style.
On the coveted part, original Al Mar Warriors and REKATs are very collectible. Not sure about the Spyderco variant yet though.
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I don't disagree with you. But comparing a knife with a Samurai sword is a bit much.

Also, I don't see that the connection between the fact that H1 steel is harder at the edge (because of work hardening) and extreme cutting power.

And extreme shock resistance? Compared to which other knives? And why does it have to be extreme?

Personally I would have liked a little bit more facts about H1 steel and reverse-grip tactics and less talk about the Samurai sword connection :)

I guess that I like the low key descriptions on the Spyderco website and the text about the Warrior seems to be stylistically different.

Rafael
 
RafaelHerschel said:
A friend of mine broke a Trailmaster by using it. That in itself doesn’t proof anything, but neither does the testing by Cold Steel.

I remember seeing a documentary about bodyguards. One of the bodyguards proudly showed his Cold Steel knife for ‘close combat’.

He claimed he could stab the knife repeatedly trough a car door. Later on I realized that he had gotten this idea from a Cold Steel ‘proof’ video.

I did the same thing with a 25 dollar Chinese knife. That didn’t proof anything either.
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Ive heard more about esee knives breaking and rusting than I have CS.

I have a couple of esee knives (rc-3 and esee 6) and will be buying the junglas next month but I like and trust my CS Trailmaster more. The best thing about esee knives are the warranty and sheaths and if I ever had to for real survive, escape, or evade, I would more than likely have my KA-BAR or Trailmaster.
 
hardheart said:
Not with half a dozen incarnations over a few decades with design input from multiple experts.
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a good amount of Cold Steel designs are modern renditions of knives/swords used for centuries in real wars.

that's also the bit that I like about them - they're stuff you wanted as a kid, but without the risk of this:

[youtube]qPZW28L4deo[/youtube]


I don't think anyone here is claiming that CS makes the best stuff ever(they should know better), just that they make good stuff and not crap as some say. Their marketing is what it is - not common for a lot of knife companies, but quite common if you look at consumer product brands as a whole.

To a normal person who might not be interested in spending a lot of money for a knife with steels and materials they don't know anything about(keep in mind these are people who might spend $5 on a knife cuz it'd looked cool), a demonstration of what knives in a class above the flea market crap can do may be enough to convince them to give them a try and possibly lead them onto other high end knives from different brands.

And lets all be honest, even if we think the CS videos are unnecessary and lame, who wouldn't want to see our favorite knives get spine whacked and stress tested for a piece of mind?

Companies like Spyderco proudly state that they also test their knives in their million-dollar facility and I don't think any Spyderco fans would be against the idea of making vids of the tests and sharing them. It'd more likely serve as a feather in the cap for them and a means to easily explain to others why they like the knives so much.

In the end I don't think the hatred towards CS is warranted; I think the "snobs" feel that CS and their marketing cheapen the image of the industry as a whole, but they probably bring in more new customers to the knife industry than any other brand.

Also, if you think destructive testing on knives is completely meaningless because you don't plan on breaking it, you must also think car crash tests done by the motor industry are pointless as well. I mean, you don't plan on driving your car into a tree right? :p
 
Like most 'accumulators' here, I have a bucket load of knives from most of the prominent manufacturers, including 16 or so Cold Steel knives. None of my CS knives have fallen apart, nor have they disappointed in the fit & finish department and they are consistently the sharpest out of the box knives I have ever used. The only ones comparable that I own where sharpness is concerned, are my Emerson knives and the Gayle Bradley. Just lately I bought a limited edition M390 BM 710-1, which would not shave on the first inch from the tip. All of my Cold Steel knives will pop hairs the entire length of the blade.

When all is done and said, we hopefully form our opinions of a knife from actual ownership and use. From my experience, I have every confidence in CS and their knives.
 
100eyes said:
A good amount of Cold Steel designs are modern renditions of knives/swords used for centuries in real wars.

that's also the bit that I like about them - they're stuff you wanted as a kid.
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That is true.

A lot of the backlash against Cold Steel has nothing to do with the products or the video’s.

It’s annoyance at the fact that so many people (outside this forum) take claims by Cold Steels at face value and don’t consider other options.

Real world argument (in a knife store!): “Aus8a is a better steel than VG-10 because Cold Steel uses it in one of their toughest folders. And if those guys use it, it must be the best steel for a tough folder.”

The same person: “VG-1 is twice as good as VG-10. I’ve seen some of the test video’s and it’s amazing what VG-1 can do.”

I mean, that just annoyed me...
 
RafaelHerschel said:
Real world argument (in a knife store!): “Aus8a is a better steel than VG-10 because Cold Steel uses it in one of their toughest folders. And if those guys use it, it must be the best steel for a tough folder.”

The same person: “VG-1 is twice as good as VG-10. I’ve seen some of the test video’s and it’s amazing what VG-1 can do.”

I mean, that just annoyed me...
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The same is true for just about any maker someone might like etc.

Wouldn't let it get to you, it could be about any product.

I never argue with people like that, I just smile and walk away.
 
RafaelHerschel said:
I love Spyderco and I love Spyderco knives. But the text about the Warrior is a bit much.

"...it possesses the same differential hardness properties of a clay-tempered Samurai sword, giving it extreme cutting power and shock resistance."

"...the original Warrior was a radical design intended primarily for use with reverse-grip tactics inspired by the Korean martial art of HwaRangDo. Produced in limited quantities by the late Al Mar and later resurrected by the martial artist Bob Taylor and Echanis contemporary Randy Wanner, it is one of the most coveted combat knives ever made.".

I mean, Bob Taylor is considerd one of the best wicket-keepers and the pride of Stoke-on-Trent. But why he needs a knife with the properties of a Samurai sword is beyond me.
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Spyderco is pretty bad for marketing hype. But, so are a lot of companies. It is, afterall, marketing. They're trying to sell a product by any means needed to the general public.
 
Most of "Lynn's hype" is true though! I've tested the heck out of different Cold Steels knives and they generally perform as advertised!
 
I just turned on my PC amd got my morning emails. One from CS who just informed me:

Lynn Thompson was presented with the degree and title of "Master at Arms", as recognized by some of the best martial artists and firearms experts in the world; specializing in empty hand, grappling, edged weapons, blunt weapons, hand-held missiles, and firearms. This honor was presented in recognition of more than 3 decades of Mr. Thompson's dedication and expertise in many martial disciplines, as well as his commitment to the "Warrior Lifestyle" for both himself, and his company.
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With video of course: :)

[YouTube]rWT1-_S-aYw[/YouTube]

Lot of other CS news including this video (short / funny)

[YouTube]L5C8I9BJjSg[/YouTube]

And more stuff here. You pick the weapon and Lynn will tell you about it: http://www.lynncthompson.com/Videos/ :)

I want a meat cycle. He doesn't say where you get them though! :confused:
 
hardheart said:
Not with half a dozen incarnations over a few decades with design input from multiple experts.
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Then you can agree that Cold Steel reproductes some of the most noteworthy blades in history along with some of the most reliable all-purpose fixed knives?

R1(Randall #1), Black Bear Classic(Loveless black bear), drop point hunter (Master Hunter) Laredo Bowie (Western style bowie). Katana sword has a couple thousand years of input from multiple experts.

If history and expertise has anything to show for reliability that is.

RafaelHerschel said:
..... I dislike the fact that because of the marketing some people who believe that Cold Steel knives are better because of the ‘proof’ that Cold steel provides.

I own a few mid level Cold Steel knives, and they are either (slightly) more expensive than knives that are just as good, or not as good than knives with a similar price (although there is not that much difference.)

At a higher price level, Cold Steel is seriously overpriced.
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A few mid-level knives..... is too vague to even be credible. Examples please. Show me the light. ;)

The highest price folder is under $300(XL Espada), fixed knife under $400 (Natchez), sword under $700 (Emperor DE Katana).

Which items in particular are so unfairly priced?
 
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