WIP Massive Titanium Roller Bearing Frame Lock

Here is the link to the Pre Order thread

tumblr_m3twvyAw0M1qlfwzk.gif
 
Well I've gotta say. That is some incredible work and incredible marketing you are doing. Good job!
 
I agree, great marketing.

I have a question about the blade.

In this photo

DSC01151.jpg


It looks to me as if the thickness at the edge is very thick and that the secondary bevel is too large and obtuse

How are the thicknesses& angles and how does it cut ?

and

Can you tell me how are you finishing the thumbstud?
Bevel or deburr the corner to kill that sharp edge.
Undercutting the slabs and the lockbar to help get a thumb under it ?
 
Last edited:
12345678910 said:
I agree, great marketing.

I have a question about the blade.

In this photo

DSC01151.jpg


It looks to me as if the thickness at the edge is very thick and that the secondary bevel is too large and obtuse

How are the thicknesses& angles and how does it cut ?

and

Can you tell me how are you finishing the thumbstud?
Bevel or deburr the corner to kill that sharp edge.
Undercutting the slabs and the lockbar to help get a thumb under it ?
Click to expand...

Carl_First_Timer said:
That is a massive secondary bevel.

Edit: Looks like we were posting at the same time count.
Click to expand...

Remember this prototype was done in 5160 and I did the heat treat myself. I don't have an electronic thermostat controlled oven. When I use a propane forge I like to leave the edge a little thicker at 60 thousandths to keep from over heating the edge and warping it post quench. The CPM-3V production examples will not be quite this thick as I am sending them to Buck for the heat treating. Also this .26" steel that is flat ground not hollow ground. This blade was designed for toughness and if I were to take the primary bevel all the way to 20 thousandths there wouldn't be much steel at the edge considering its close to 2 inches wide.

It must be the photo that makes the bevel look obtuse. I set the secondary bevel on my edge pro to be 17 each side for a 34 degree inclusive angle. Not obtuse at all.

As to the cutting capability. This knife reminds me of a folding version of my Ka-Bar Becker BK2. Nice and hefty with plenty of outdoors/utility uses. This will NEVER be fillet knife that can seperate a tomatoe from its skin. Every knife has a designed purpose. This knife was designed to put the power of fixed blade into your pocket.

mike nelson said:
thumbstud looks a little sharp on the top edge as well
Click to expand...

The thumb-stud has been finished with a tungsten carbide coating to mate with the carbide coating on the engagement surfaces of the slabs. Remember this isn't just the thumb-stud its the stop pin as well. In order to keep the thumbstud from galling the slabs overtime I carbidized all the surfaces to 71RC to keep lock geometry stable and solid. Yes Mike its kinda sharp but frankly it is first an foremost a flipper and not a stud deploy system. Now that I feel it in my hand I think I'll just break that edge to keep any burrs from catching.
 
WilliamWoods said:
The thumb-stud has been finished with a tungsten carbide coating to mate with the carbide coating on the engagement surfaces of the slabs. Remember this isn't just the thumb-stud its the stop pin as well. In order to keep the thumbstud from galling the slabs overtime I carbidized all the surfaces to 71RC to keep lock geometry stable and solid. Yes Mike its kinda sharp but frankly it is first an foremost a flipper and not a stud deploy system. Now that I feel it in my hand I think I'll just break that edge to keep any burrs from catching.
Click to expand...
The possibility of galling should be non-existent on a stop pin.
Galling requires pressure, AND movement.
You can press two things together forever, and never get any galling.
You may get plastic deformation, but they won't gall.
You have to have sliding motion, along with pressure, and a stop pin should never have that.

In other words, there should never be any relative motion between the contact point on the pin and the contact point on the frame, and motion is required for galling.
 
Fellhoelter said:
The possibility of galling should be non-existent on a stop pin.
Galling requires pressure, AND movement.
You can press two things together forever, and never get any galling.
You may get plastic deformation, but they won't gall.
You have to have sliding motion, along with pressure, and a stop pin should never have that.

In other words, there should never be any relative motion between the contact point on the pin and the contact point on the frame, and motion is required for galling.
Click to expand...

Your 100% right, plastic deformation is the correct terminology. Either way carbidizing goes a long way to leveling the playing field between the hardened stainless stop pin and the softer 6-4 Ti. I don't expect miracles but frankly once you invest the money in a carbidizer its dirt cheap to coat surfaces. Better to have it than not.
 
I'm not trying to talk you out of it, if it's your thing.

But, carbidizing won't stop plastic deformation either.
It's too thin to do that.
All it does is add a hard layer to the surface, but does nothing to the substrate.

It's like a putting a silk pillowcase on a burlap pillow, the surface of the pillow is changed, but when you push on it, it's still a pillow.
 
Can you post a video of the prototype in action. It would be good to see the flipping action and maybe a size comparison to another knife to get an idea of the Titans size. Knife looks great.
 
Fellhoelter said:
I'm not trying to talk you out of it, if it's your thing.

But, carbidizing won't stop plastic deformation either.
It's too thin to do that.
All it does is add a hard layer to the surface, but does nothing to the substrate.

It's like a putting a silk pillowcase on a burlap pillow, the surface of the pillow is changed, but when you push on it, it's still a pillow.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I guess I got the idea from a Microtech Scarab I had that had a Ti stop pin. Once I coated the critical mating surfaces it tightened up and pulled a good amount of blade play out of the system. I see your point with the deformation. The best method is probably to make sure that area gets some torch time when i flame anodize that area. I have noticed a pronounced difference in the effort it takes to set ball detents in heat anodized lock bars vs. virgin Ti. The goal here is to make any areas of contact as dimensionally stable as possible. Any pro tips? lol

Carpentermatt said:
Can you post a video of the prototype in action. It would be good to see the flipping action and maybe a size comparison to another knife to get an idea of the Titans size. Knife looks great.
Click to expand...

No problem. I'll set up the camera and show her off. I've got plenty of larger folders to use as comparison. The TiTAN is definitely the largest of my entire collection though.

mike nelson said:
what software did you use to make that video?
Click to expand...

The knife was modeled in Rhino3D then taken into cinema4D to do all the animations. I exported the animated video into Adobe AfterEffects and added the video effects like the text flickering and music. Not an easy task but my brother is pursuing a degree in Motion Media and he helped me take this video to the next level. What I'm trying to do here is turn what has been a side job and a hobby into a business. That's why I love all the advice I get from the more seasoned members here. You guys have saved me years of wasted material and mistakes developing my knife designs. Its really been a fantastic project and I'm just as excited about getting this into as many peoples hands as possible.
 
Adding Ti to an existing knife can take some slop out if it is there, because you do actually change the dimension if the carbidized part.

If you have a loose lock, sometimes carbidizing the lock face, and/or the stop pin will tighten things up, because you added material, and slightly changed the geometry.

Plastic deformation of the stop pin interface is where a lot of knives run into trouble, ending up with locks that over travel.
A lot of guys have the stop pin hit on a flat, or convex surface, effectively meaning just a tangent point of the stop pin comes in contact.
It's easy to deform that, and it happens a lot.
Now the blade opens a fraction of a degree further, and the lock travels further across the tang.


From your pictures, you seem to have done the right thing, by having your stop pin hit in a concave surface.
Effectively meaning you won't have a POINT of contact, but a PATCH of contact around the circumference of your stop pin.
It doesn't take much, just a few degrees of arc, but it makes a huge difference on longevity.
 
Fellhoelter said:
Adding Ti to an existing knife can take some slop out if it is there, because you do actually change the dimension if the carbidized part.

If you have a loose lock, sometimes carbidizing the lock face, and/or the stop pin will tighten things up, because you added material, and slightly changed the geometry.

Plastic deformation of the stop pin interface is where a lot of knives run into trouble, ending up with locks that over travel.
A lot of guys have the stop pin hit on a flat, or convex surface, effectively meaning just a tangent point of the stop pin comes in contact.
It's easy to deform that, and it happens a lot.
Now the blade opens a fraction of a degree further, and the lock travels further across the tang.


From your pictures, you seem to have done the right thing, by having your stop pin hit in a concave surface.
Effectively meaning you won't have a POINT of contact, but a PATCH of contact around the circumference of your stop pin.
It doesn't take much, just a few degrees of arc, but it makes a huge difference on longevity.
Click to expand...

How "early" do you set your lock up? Right now I'm aiming for 25%-30% but I have seen some stuff with all Ti lock bars that is extremely early. Like 10-15% max. I know some settling will happen over time after deploying hundreds of time. But 10% seems really shallow. Am I off base here?
 
can you post a video showing the basic opening and closing? i'm curious to see just how smooth this beast is to open and close.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top