Your opinions why the ZT 0909 only lasted one year?
- Thread starter tgtodd
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Wrong. I'm a ZT fan, bought 2 ZT 0301 this year and ZT 0303's. I love hard use knives there is a reason the ZT 0301 rerun sold out so fast. ZT customers still love well designed hard use practical knives. The 0909 lacked jimping, no DLC coating options and was a linerlock. For a 7oz "hard" use knife it should be a framelock and have jimping.
Both of the knives you mentioned were designed and introduced years ago. You're almost helping my point, which is that ZT and its main customer base has moved away from simple "hard use" knives.
A knife with a well designed handle doesn't need jimping in my opinion. On knives I use hard, aggressive jimping is more often an annoyance than any help.
Frame locks are not better for "hard use" than liner locks. It's a myth pushed by makers because they're simple to produce. The whole "your grip holds it closed" thing only applies in a small portion of scenarios. Most frame locks are made of titanium, which is inherently less strong than steel of the same thickness and length, and have a cutout that leaves less material than most liner locks.
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Great question, hopefully it turns into a great discussion.
Enthusiasts have been clamoring for ZT to "return to its roots" and build "hard-use/tactical" knives. While that is great to appease a few guys who have the opportunity to carry and use knives of that type, the majority of the market has moved past that genre of knives. Not just ZT, but the market as a whole has moved away from those types of knives. Why?
IMO:
1. Expensive hobbies are short term for a lot of people
- Constantly buying knives gets to be quite expensive, we all know this, and equally important, our spouses know this. After a time, and a lot of money spent, people move to new hobbies, or throttle back on current hobbies. The demographic of "heavy use tactical" may have already faded in terms of market percentage.
2. Lost term hobbyist get bored and need new.
- This is actually the more important point. Hobbyist constantly need new and different in order to keep them coming back to the table. Everyone I know has done the overbuilt/slighty impractical knives, they want different. The market is moving back towards traditional style knives to keep that "new" flowing. There is no better comparison than fashion. Constantly in flux, otherwise no one would give a shit. When are bell-bottoms coming back in style?
Kudos to ZT for trying to answer the loud voice of a few, but from a sales standpoint, it didn't work out and they moved on. Hopefully those that really wanted the 0909 had the opportunity to buy one, hopefully they will cherish it forever..... but in reality they will sell it at some point for something different. #TheCycleContinues
Enthusiasts have been clamoring for ZT to "return to its roots" and build "hard-use/tactical" knives. While that is great to appease a few guys who have the opportunity to carry and use knives of that type, the majority of the market has moved past that genre of knives. Not just ZT, but the market as a whole has moved away from those types of knives. Why?
IMO:
1. Expensive hobbies are short term for a lot of people
- Constantly buying knives gets to be quite expensive, we all know this, and equally important, our spouses know this. After a time, and a lot of money spent, people move to new hobbies, or throttle back on current hobbies. The demographic of "heavy use tactical" may have already faded in terms of market percentage.
2. Lost term hobbyist get bored and need new.
- This is actually the more important point. Hobbyist constantly need new and different in order to keep them coming back to the table. Everyone I know has done the overbuilt/slighty impractical knives, they want different. The market is moving back towards traditional style knives to keep that "new" flowing. There is no better comparison than fashion. Constantly in flux, otherwise no one would give a shit. When are bell-bottoms coming back in style?
Kudos to ZT for trying to answer the loud voice of a few, but from a sales standpoint, it didn't work out and they moved on. Hopefully those that really wanted the 0909 had the opportunity to buy one, hopefully they will cherish it forever..... but in reality they will sell it at some point for something different. #TheCycleContinues
The knives I mentioned were what made ZT known as a practical, hard use knife company. I'm not sure what you're getting at... because I also stated the rerun of the 0301 sold out very quickly which shows that ZT fans still really do want practical hard use knives, but didn't like the 0909. The 0909 seems to have a well built linerlock that is stronger than most linerlocks. Also yes, steel is stronger than titanium but from a physics standpoint you're wrong when it comes to Linerlock vs framelock just one of the many reasons is friction(area of framelock engaged on the blade tang vs linerlock) plays a huge role in the strength of a knife. What it seems to me is you like the knife, and are sad it is getting discontinued, and I'm providing reason why I think it is getting discontinued.
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Nah, I'm not a big fan of it either. I think it should be less expensive. Also am not a huge fan of the designer's general lines. Never bought one, even when there was a sale for $99
Ohhhh interesting, my bad.
JJ_Colt45
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No way to know the actual reasoning ... it could be cost of production compared to profit ...it may have been a pattern that just didn't sell as well ... it could be as simple as being released at a time people are a bit tighter with their money with everything going on in our messed up world.
But I don't think ZT is moving completely away from what some call "overbuilt" or "heavy use" or any of the terms some put on a knife ... the ZT 0909 was one of my favorites it is quite versitile and the blade geometery is anything but bulky it is a very good slicer for a big strong framelock.
And no I'm not a as some again would label a "ZT fanboy" ... I love many brands and manys types ... there is a place for the ZT 0909 just as there is a place for a Case Peanut ... not everyone likes or requires the same size material type or color of knife ...
So it's sad to me ZT discontinued the 0909 just as it was sad they discontinued the immensely popular 550 ... and some others ... but all knife companies move on to new models ... change comes to all things ...
I am sad Becker discontinued the BK15 ... and could give example after example ... but companies move forward or they get left behind ...
Isn't it great we all like and want different things ? And we have the choice to spend our hard earned money on those knives ... or those brands ... and the next guy can spend his on the knives he loves? ... I personally find that absolutely wonderful.
JJ
But I don't think ZT is moving completely away from what some call "overbuilt" or "heavy use" or any of the terms some put on a knife ... the ZT 0909 was one of my favorites it is quite versitile and the blade geometery is anything but bulky it is a very good slicer for a big strong framelock.
And no I'm not a as some again would label a "ZT fanboy" ... I love many brands and manys types ... there is a place for the ZT 0909 just as there is a place for a Case Peanut ... not everyone likes or requires the same size material type or color of knife ...
So it's sad to me ZT discontinued the 0909 just as it was sad they discontinued the immensely popular 550 ... and some others ... but all knife companies move on to new models ... change comes to all things ...
I am sad Becker discontinued the BK15 ... and could give example after example ... but companies move forward or they get left behind ...
Isn't it great we all like and want different things ? And we have the choice to spend our hard earned money on those knives ... or those brands ... and the next guy can spend his on the knives he loves? ... I personally find that absolutely wonderful.
JJ
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I love this knife so I'm sad to see it not do well. A couple of improvements in my opinion would be a different pocket clip that matched the overall robustness of the knife, and maybe add thumbstuds/"blade stops" for an alternative way to open it. It's heavy, but I enjoy that aspect when it comes to a ZT. As for the scales and steel, I think they're perfectly suited for this hard-working knife!
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sharp_edge
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This guy nailed it. Yes - two things: the tiny ugly clip simply should never be put on such a beefy, heavy, hard use folder. The scales at the best are just meh , strange pattern, not the most comfortable in hand. The blade profile is actually great though.I think it would still be being made if not for the scales and clip.
This knife was priced too high from the beginning and once it did not sell well at that price, KAI had to discontinue it in order to sell. Am I not correct?
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I am not fond of the 0909 blade style, the basic design, the use of steel, the clip location and the scales. And, of course, the ridiculous weight...which is totally unnecessary. I understand that some folks love the heavier ZT's that can pry wood screws out of a 2x4" without any blade damage. Opinions go across the board and we accept that...well...many of us do.
I've owned a ton of ZT's and have admired the run of the 550's, the 560's...etc. I've sold all those over time, and the ONLY one that has survived is a 770CF.
This one is VERY special. At 4.32" closed length...it's a tiny bit short for my hand, and it's never been carried or used. The 3.2" blade operation is just plain perfect. I had one earlier and sold it...realized my error and quickly bought another nib several yrs ago. It is never carried...just occasionally pulled out of the box and admired. The carbon fiber feels excellent; the blade is the limited edition in M390.
I've owned a ton of ZT's and have admired the run of the 550's, the 560's...etc. I've sold all those over time, and the ONLY one that has survived is a 770CF.
This one is VERY special. At 4.32" closed length...it's a tiny bit short for my hand, and it's never been carried or used. The 3.2" blade operation is just plain perfect. I had one earlier and sold it...realized my error and quickly bought another nib several yrs ago. It is never carried...just occasionally pulled out of the box and admired. The carbon fiber feels excellent; the blade is the limited edition in M390.
Certainly the 0909 one of the most functional-looking ZT I remember seeing.
In comparison, the 301 and 303 mentioned look quite low on functionality to my eyes, with their recurved edges, thick profile points, and bulky over-textured handles...
I also agree a liner lock's steel on steel is better than Titanium on steel.
Gaston
In comparison, the 301 and 303 mentioned look quite low on functionality to my eyes, with their recurved edges, thick profile points, and bulky over-textured handles...
I also agree a liner lock's steel on steel is better than Titanium on steel.
Gaston
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I think the 0909 was just a little too bricky for its own good. Surprisingly not terribly thick behind the edge, but the handle is overly thick, and the liners were not designed to save any weight at all. Couple that with the rather steep price, and you have a guaranteed failure.